Harrison Ford does it again ...

[Palmpilot]

Interesting that he didn't read back the landing clearance. Its my understanding you always need to repeat that you are cleared to land (or option or whatever) and the assigned runway. Maybe that is not exactly the case?...

It's probably not a bad idea, but I haven't seen a regulation to that effect, just some AIM recommendations. The ATIS at my airport includes an instruction to read back all runway assignments and hold-short instructions.

 

[flyingron]

I did a paper in collage on the PATCO controllers about that time. Not my writing but the general outcome.

In February 1981, PATCO and the FAA began new contract negotiations. Citing safety concerns, PATCO called for a reduced 32-hour work week, a $10,000 pay increase for all air-traffic controllers and a better benefits package for retirement.[7] Negotiations quickly stalled. Then, in June, the FAA offered a new three-year contract with $105 million in raises to be paid in 11.4% increases over the next three years, a raise more than twice what was being given to other federal employees. However, because the offer did not include a shorter work week or earlier retirement, PATCO rejected the offer.[8

Patco attempted to strike and the R&F didn't approve it. They held another vote and lied about the results to the membership, duping them into tossing their careers away.

 

[bflynn]

Sounds like a perfect example of expectation bias to me. I've done something similar.

Was it exasperated by age? Not necessarily. I understand that he doesn't fly as much anymore, so there might have also been a slight helmet fire going on.

 

[denverpilot]

 

[Skip Miller]

One thing that is weird is that both article then reference his fairly recent crash which was probably a aircraft or preflight issue. However they don't mention the SNA taxiway landing which seems more relevant to this story.

Shame on you for making the assumption that the journalist responsible has more than two functioning brain cells and has devoted some time to researching the article. </kidding mode> I'll bet that the crash comes up on Google earlier than the SNA incident.

-Skip

 

[Velocity173]

Hopefully Harrison Ford has better things to do than read POA during the lockdown since you guys are merciless! He screwed up. We all have. I’ve been flying a few years longer than he has and I’ve done plenty of stupid things and misunderstood ATC communications. He realized it right away, apologized and dealt with it professionally. What more can you ask for?

Sitting on my couch it’s pretty clear what ATC intended but That isn’t the situation he was in when he made the decision to cross the runway. I’m glad in a way that I am so insignificant that my minor screw ups don’t turn into multiple page threads (yes, this was minor. It’s a runway incursions and needs to be taken seriously, but no one was hurt or in immediate danger.)

He’s done a lot of great things for aviation and I’m glad he’s part of our community. If and when he retires from flying as PIC a lot of the contributions he’s made to GA will remain and we are better off for it. I’m sure he and his AME are well aware of the normal and abnormal cognitive issues associated with aging and I think it’s probably best to leave those decisions in the hands of the experts.

For the record, I’ve never met him but I did see him dining at The Tavern in Brentwood once...

Well, we as pilots jump on ATC when they make mistakes, we should hold ourselves to the same standard. Actually, so far I haven’t seen anyone on POA really admonishing Ford for this PD.

Mistakes shouldn’t be just dismissed because we’re human all no one died though. Someone could’ve died and there are those that continue to make mistakes who either don’t have the mental skills or they simply don’t have any attention to detail. Just like driving, plenty of pilots out there shouldn’t be in the air.

Same goes for ATC. One of the reasons my brother retired out of ATC early is the FAA’s attitude towards forgiveness (just culture). Perfect example, one time on position he was monitoring a student controller. This guy had been there for like 3 years and still not facility rated because he can’t remember the regs and can’t work anything other than light traffic. One day he was reading a non ATC book on position and my brother told him to put it up because he makes too many mistakes. His reply was “I have the right to make mistakes!” Sadly, that’s the attitude of a lot of controllers and pilots. We should be striving for perfection but unfortunately too many accept mediocrity.

 

[Kenny Phillips]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/ce...s-statement-about-runway-incident/ar-BB13nA04

 

[PaulS]

I don't think that is all on Harrison. That video is edited, not sure how long the time gaps are, but that Husky sitting there on a hot CA day, he could have been looking at CHTs rising to ludicrous levels. The second call sounds like a "hey, I'm still here" call. I'm fine with controllers talking fast, but they need to have proper diction and annunciation when doing so. This controller clipped the word continue and he should have said "continue holding short" rather than what he did say. It would have made it very easy to understand what the instruction was. Trying to please and not **** off a controller makes it much easier for a pilot to screw up in my opinion.

 

[flyingron]

Anybody have the LIVE ATC link?

Pilots are never REQUIRED to read back anything.
Controllers, however, are required to obtain readbacks of hold short/crossing instructions.

 

[PaulS]

Anybody have the LIVE ATC link?

Pilots are never REQUIRED to read back anything.
Controllers, however, are required to obtain readbacks of hold short/crossing instructions.

The delta I fly out of wants read back of all taxi instructions including runway plus hold short instructions. Not sure what would happen if you refuse, but I know if you forget something like the runway on a taxi assignment they ask you again to say it to them.

 

[danhagan]

My previous Tiger used to break squelch and we were chasing the issue for a year ... it was at "its finest" on the ground at the Class C ... it'd go from crystal clear to a total poop show in a heart beat totally random. Real easy to listen to LiveATC, but it might not represent the clarity in HIS cockpit. Clearance delivery at the Class C between or near the hangars is nearly impossible even with GREAT avionics ...

 

[Lindberg]

My previous Tiger used to break squelch and we were chasing the issue for a year ... it was at "its finest" on the ground at the Class C ... it'd go from crystal clear to a total poop show in a heart beat totally random. Real easy to listen to LiveATC, but it might not represent the clarity in HIS cockpit. Clearance delivery at the Class C between or near the hangars is nearly impossible even with GREAT avionics ...

Was just thinking how these recordings always sound much clearer than what's in my headset.

 

[Velocity173]

Controllers are required to obtain acknowledgment of ATC instructions / clearances. No requirement for a read back. Pilots can acknowledge these instructions with their call sign and the words “Roger, Wilco or Afirmative.”

Controllers are required to get read backs of hold short instructions ONLY. Additionally, ATC has to ensure that a pilot knows the runway assignment in a taxi instruction. Reading back the taxi instruction is a way to ensure that the pilot understands the runway assignment.

Anything outside of the above, is a “should” (numbers, vectors, altitude assignment, etc) local policy or controller preference

Oh yeah, if a pilot does read back an instruction or clearance, whether required or not, the controller has to ensure the read back is correct. In this case, I’m not sure the controller had time to correct the incorrect read back.

 

[NordicDave]

Who hasn't voted in the Harrison Poll?
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/with-harrison-ford-in-the-news.125748/

 

[N1120A]

I was ready to totally blame him for this, but there are several things that I think make this more a team effort.

1) His hangar is on the North side of the airport. Not a lot of stuff over there. Tower, self serve fuel and his hangar. That's about it. When he landed, the controller told him to turn left, which doesn't make sense. That seems to have caused the initial issues.

2) They switched controllers and seem to have forgotten about him..

3) HHR has a habit of combining local and ground, even when multiple controllers are working. It seems to create controller workload issues.

4) That use of "continue" was pretty poor, given that they were dealing with someone who was already enquiring.

People make mistakes, that’s why they put erasers on pencils. It may be time for Mr. Ford to take a self evaluation of his abilities, that time comes for all of us eventually.

Eh, I don't think this incident is the one that says that.

I don’t know if it’s time for Ford to hang it up but you can see in interviews that he’s just not that sharp anymore. Talks slow, has trouble remembering things, etc. A busy Class D is no place for someone that is starting to lose their edge. What sucks is, unlike the rest of us, if we make a mistake or two it doesn’t get broadcast in the news. Everything he does will get looked at with a microscope.

We all get there at some point and we have to know when to call it quits. I’ll be done flying for hire at 62 and probably will drop it as a hobby not long after that.

HHR isn't as busy as most of the other local Class Ds. In fact, it is a contract tower.

Isn’t this the second time he’s misunderstood ATC instruction? Might be time to hang up his headset...

No, he understood the SNA instruction - he just landed on the wrong surface.

 

[fasteddie]

N1120A, thanks for taking the time to post that. Good insight.

 

[N1120A]

N1120A, thanks for taking the time to post that. Good insight.

No problem. We have to be fair in evaluating these situations, despite forming preconceived notions about certain folks.

It is like when people use the Penmar golf course crash as "evidence" that Ford is a bad pilot. It is completely the opposite. He landed on literally the only remotely suitable surface in the event of a single engine out off that airport below a turn back altitude.