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Therookguy

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Therookguy
I am moving to a new city this summer. I currently pay 100$ a month for an enclosed T hangar that fits my 182 nicely. Unfortunately where I am moving there are only shade hangars for rent and the wait list is over a year. I'm currently #82 :/ There's some privately owned hangars that go for $600 dollars a month but may not be available for quite some time.

I can't afford a 600$ a month t-hangar, so the way I see it I have two options.

1. Leave the plane outside for half a year or more when I move, then put it in a shade hangar when one is available.
2. Leave the plane in it's current hangar more than a 1000 miles away until I get a shade hangar spot.

Number 2 seems really lame to me... what's the point of owning the plane if it just sits in a hangar unflown? On the otherhand though I don't want to damage a significant investment that I made. It should be dry at the new airport and I can buy some shades for the windows, but I'm worried about the half a year it could sit out in the weather and sun before I get a shade hangar. Thoughts/advice?
 
Used to be it was typical to be on a tiedown and an exception to be in a hangar.

Big Beaver Airport in 1973 (Troy MI).
http://www.airfields-freeman.com/MI/Airfields_MI_Detroit_NW.htm

BigBeaver_MI_73.jpg
 
Huh. I see "always hangered" all the time on listings for aircraft sales. Are most of those false?
 
I would go for option #1 but I would buy a good cover and not just window shades. Even though I have my plane in a T hangar, I also have a Bruce Custom Cover that fits my plane like a glove. It is great to have when I’m away from home overnight, especially for air shows like Oshkosh or Sun N Fun where you are away multiple days. Even if I’m just going to be away for the day I will still use my cover on the plane while it’s parked on the tarmac. It keeps the cockpit a little cooler for when I return. It only takes a few minutes to install.

https://aircraftcovers.com/general-aviation/low-wing-single-engine
 
Therookguy said:
I am moving to a new city this summer. I currently pay 100$ a month for an enclosed T hangar that fits my 182 nicely. Unfortunately where I am moving there are only shade hangars for rent and the wait list is over a year. I'm currently #82 :/ There's some privately owned hangars that go for $600 dollars a month but may not be available for quite some time.
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Which airport?
 
Therookguy said:
I am moving to a new city this summer. I currently pay 100$ a month for an enclosed T hangar that fits my 182 nicely. Unfortunately where I am moving there are only shade hangars for rent and the wait list is over a year. I'm currently #82 :/ There's some privately owned hangars that go for $600 dollars a month but may not be available for quite some time.

I can't afford a 600$ a month t-hangar, so the way I see it I have two options.

1. Leave the plane outside for half a year or more when I move, then put it in a shade hangar when one is available.
2. Leave the plane in it's current hangar more than a 1000 miles away until I get a shade hangar spot.

Number 2 seems really lame to me... what's the point of owning the plane if it just sits in a hangar unflown? On the otherhand though I don't want to damage a significant investment that I made. It should be dry at the new airport and I can buy some shades for the windows, but I'm worried about the half a year it could sit out in the weather and sun before I get a shade hangar. Thoughts/advice?
Click to expand...
MIght this be a good time to sell while the prices are high but still get on the list? Sure, prices may go higher (or not) but the money you will save on insurance, hangar space, maintenance added to your sales price could allow you to buy a nice plane when a space does become available. At least that seems like a much better option than your #2.
 
EDFEACB7-B2B7-4775-BDDB-2F45D4E6E665.png Can you split the baby? Maybe move the plane within 90 minutes of where you’re moving?



I was a ‘Rook Guy’ years ago, FWIW.
 
JOhnH said:
MIght this be a good time to sell while the prices are high but still get on the list? Sure, prices may go higher (or not) but the money you will save on insurance, hangar space, maintenance added to your sales price could allow you to buy a nice plane when a space does become available. At least that seems like a much better option than your #2.
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I don't want to sell right now. My money is better just sitting in the plane. With inflation I'll sell that plane for more than I bought it. The second I sell it, I'm losing money.
 
k9medic said:
I have a friend who rationalized the hangar versus tie down debate the following way:

Hangar = $350/ month which comes out to $4200 per year. After 5 years of saving hangar rent you could get the plane painted.
Click to expand...

This. It'll be dry so I'm not as worried about corrosion. I'll definitely get sun shades, cowl plugs. I'll consider a cover and external gust locks. The plane is insured if something happens.
 
Keep a very good wax job on it, get a good cover, keep the doors locked, have control locks on everything and make sure it is snug in the tie downs. I followed that for five years while ours was tied down, and it worked out great. It was really nice to get in a hangar (finally) though.
 
Therookguy said:
I don't want to sell right now. My money is better just sitting in the plane. With inflation I'll sell that plane for more than I bought it. The second I sell it, I'm losing money.
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You do realize we have a pretty high chance of recession don't you? Everytime I try to predict where the economy is going, I get burned.
 
somorris said:
Keep a very good wax job on it, get a good cover, keep the doors locked, have control locks on everything and make sure it is snug in the tie downs. I followed that for five years while ours was tied down, and it worked out great. It was really nice to get in a hangar (finally) though.
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If the plan is to keep the airplane, this is probably the best option.
 
second the request to send original airport coords. $100/mo is bueno, asking for a friend for retirement considerations. The big metros are not friendly to my *cough* my friend's hobby.
 
hindsight2020 said:
second the request to send original airport coords. $100/mo is bueno, asking for a friend for retirement considerations. The big metros are not friendly to my *cough* my friend's hobby.
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CVN. You'll need a hangar. The winds were 50+ knots yesterday.
 
update: was offered a hangar space about 1.3 hours from where I'll be living. 400$ a month. I fly about 3-4 hours a week so this would probably be a no go for me, but I'm thinking it might be worth it until I can get a shade hangar at least. Still, being a 2 hour round trip drive it defeats the purpose of having a cross country plane IMHO. Might as well leave it at my home airport.

Why are hangars so few and so expensive??
 
I'm based at KVGT in a (so called) shade hangar. The waiting list moves surprisingly quickly. Be aware that the word 'shade' sort of depends on which section you're in - some are orientated to allow full sun onto plane for half the day! Custom sun shades are a must here.
 
Network at closer airport and get a lift? 2 in one hangar. 650 a month in my neck of the woods fwiw.

IMG_20220401_133212846.jpg
 
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The hangar waiting list is a bit of a fallacy. so there are 85 people on the waiting list and they are also on the waiting list at 17 other airports, the first one to available they will take and not call the other airports.

There is such a buddy system on hangars that the way to do it is to demand that the list with dates and aircraft type be posted at the FBO for all to see. It is also interesting to do your own survey and see how many hangars are occupied by airworthy aircraft, or furniture. The FAA has been addressing this recently.
 
Nobody owes you a hangar. If you think there's a shortage? Build a bunch and get rich leasing them out. But you'll quickly find that the numbers don't work, and that's why there aren't many hangars.
 
Yea the "wait list" is phony. You could be #1 on the list but if someone comes looking for a hangar for their 2 million dollar airplane they will get first dibs. There are hangars at my airport that stay vacant for months in hopes that an expensive airplane comes knocking. There are 80 people on the list at my airport. The hangar across from me sat empty for 4-5 months. Suddenly an airplane that recently sold for 2.5 mil shows up in it with it's happy new Porsche driving owner while my buddy with a 140 that's been on the list for 3 years still waits.

In the mean time they have constructed two corporate hangars to pander to a new car manufacturer coming to town and are now focused on moving the self serve pumps and adding more taxiways in the name of "safety".
 
Stewartb said:
Nobody owes you a hangar. If you think there's a shortage? Build a bunch and get rich leasing them out. But you'll quickly find that the numbers don't work, and that's why there aren't many hangars.
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I saw a recent survey locally (Chicago area) from before COVID that quoted 20 hangars at $1.8M. Those hangars could probably rent for 550-600. While one could fill them overnight (because there are waitlists everywhere) it’s a long payback period.
 
Based on the waiting lists for all the airports within 100 miles of me, the wait time is about 200 years.
 
I would think that if an airport had more hangars then more planes would base there rather than at another airport in the area. That should increase fuel sales as most pilots tend to get fuel at home more than elsewhere. Also, with more planes based at an airport, the maintenance shop would be busier and make more money. Often, an airport will base a business's rent as part fixed rate and part percentage of sales. And more based planes leads to more operations (takeoffs and landings) which could mean getting more FAA free money. So, it isn't just the hangar rent that the airport will gain if they build more hangars. It's those other sources of income as well.
 
I haven't looked in a long while but KSGJ's list was posted online and was quite long. As in I think it was hundreds deep. I spoke with the airport manager about it once....well really more about tie downs
They really don't have many tiedowns there....and they are all controlled by the FBO who reported no availability except for overnights...and I think the transient hangar for some big bucks.
The airport for several years has been tearing down old little T-Hangars and putting up much larger hangers...that can fit multiple little singles. They are clearly catering to the big boys...I think Grum.man is spot on there from what I could tell. After a few years being on the mailing list for the airport pilot's assoc I gathered that ksandrew is right about the buddy system. It kinda seems like it who you know & I got the feeling that there's a lot of under the table swapping and sharing amongst the tenants...a\instead of the wait list getting attention. I could be wrong about all that since I was never in with the crowd there and wasn't able to attend many meetings.

Anyway, I asked the manager when I was talking with her about tiedowns, why they don't put up a lot more hangars &/or build out some tie down areas. She claimed that she wishes she could but no room. I didn't get into specifics but just said looks like plenty of room in my estimation if they wanted it. Well they have a huge area carved out for a little mini airline terminal that never seems to have had much traction....they have runway 2/20 which i believe has been closed for a while and never seems to have had much traffic, and quite a lot of grass North of 6/24 that might come into play if that little unused runway was closed for good. I understand that there might be hoops to jump through for most of that...but if they wanted to work that list down and if they wanted to be accessible I'm fairly confident they could carve out room for a whole lot of little parking pads and tie down ramps. There are a lot of acres there.

I was just doing homework thinking IF I were to buy a little something could it work. Basically no place to put it! For such a large and busy GA airport they are not very accessible for a little guy.

I suppose this area is more fortunate that a lot of places with several airports around Jacksonville...back when I was looking they had wait lists too but I didn't get very deep into that... just oh so less convenient of a place for even if they did have space. It seemed at least there was a realistic chance that I could get into the shared hangar at one of those until at least a tie down opened up...so there's hope for a tie down

I really feel bad for folks that have only one airport in their area (unless its truly welcoming and accessible like I recall JGG being back in the 1990's anyway...in which case I'm jealous!)

I was day dreaming earlier and found a raffle giving away a really nice looking cessna 170. Oh how much a shame it would be if I were to win that fabric winged beauty...no place with shelter to put it!
 
Before I built my own hangar I looked a lot into fabric structures. Having owned a tent company for fifty years I was well versed in the engineering and capabilities of these structures.

So many airports have surplus blacktop areas, not always perfectly level and some water may run through your hangar. But a hangar you could erect in a week-end, and then remove it in a day, have the land on a shorter term lease rather than 30 years and leaving your hangar behind. No bi-fold door but a reinforced curtain. The main thing is to keep the price down. And make it easy to erect and move.

Life is a barrel of fun.

Ken Andrew
 
My plane is based at an airport which has little or no wait list for a hangar. Not for lack of interest, but because hangar rents are high enough that they balance demand with supply. The airport management is planning to add another 10 or so next year. As far as I can see, none of the about 60 hangars are used for non-aviation storage (although some people store other items with their airplane). The hangars and taxiways are well maintained. Hangar maintenance issues are addressed quickly. Snow is plowed shortly after the snowfall stops. Grass is mowed regularly.

There are about 25 paved tiedowns for resident airplanes (maybe 4-5 derelicts and the rest active). Even more so than hangars, there are always tiedowns available. But, also as with hangars, the cost is high enough to balance supply with demand. Higher than many (most?) have quoted for their hangars.

The interesting thing is that ca. 25 years ago this airport was struggling. Areas of pavement in poor condition. Hangars not functioning well. The shop had closed. But its hangars were full and there was a waiting list. At that point it was purchased by the current management, their new operating procedures were instituted, and it is now strong.

Could a root problem with unavailable hangar space be that below market rate rents cause oversubscription by all types of users? Including many that don't contribute to the airport otherwise (like fuel purchases and shop services). The net result being long waiting lists, lower flying activity than possible considering the number of occupied hangars/tiedowns, and insufficient revenue to keep the airport in proper order or build more hangars without subsidies. And that one solution is to raise the rents to balance supply and demand and provide funding to improve airport operations and, if needed, build more hangars?

What would happen if a new owner showed up and raised your hangar rent by 50%-100% with a "promise" that the money would be reinvested in the airport?
 
bkspero said:
My plane is based at an airport which has little or no wait list for a hangar. Not for lack of interest, but because hangar rents are high enough that they balance demand with supply. The airport management is planning to add another 10 or so next year. As far as I can see, none of the about 60 hangars are used for non-aviation storage (although some people store other items with their airplane). The hangars and taxiways are well maintained. Hangar maintenance issues are addressed quickly. Snow is plowed shortly after the snowfall stops. Grass is mowed regularly.

There are about 25 paved tiedowns for resident airplanes (maybe 4-5 derelicts and the rest active). Even more so than hangars, there are always tiedowns available. But, also as with hangars, the cost is high enough to balance supply with demand. Higher than many (most?) have quoted for their hangars.

The interesting thing is that ca. 25 years ago this airport was struggling. Areas of pavement in poor condition. Hangars not functioning well. The shop had closed. But its hangars were full and there was a waiting list. At that point it was purchased by the current management, their new operating procedures were instituted, and it is now strong.

Could a root problem with unavailable hangar space be that below market rate rents cause oversubscription by all types of users? Including many that don't contribute to the airport otherwise (like fuel purchases and shop services). The net result being long waiting lists, lower flying activity than possible considering the number of occupied hangars/tiedowns, and insufficient revenue to keep the airport in proper order or build more hangars without subsidies. And that one solution is to raise the rents to balance supply and demand and provide funding to improve airport operations and, if needed, build more hangars?

What would happen if a new owner showed up and raised your hangar rent by 50%-100% with a "promise" that the money would be reinvested in the airport?
Click to expand...
It's kind of what I'm hoping for with my home base. As recently as 10 years ago their was 20+ outside. 20 years ago their was 40+. Shop and flight school left about the same time planes started disappearing. Now it's for sale and likely headed towards development. If anyone has a spare 8 million around I'll make sure you get a hangar.
 
k9medic said:
I have a friend who rationalized the hangar versus tie down debate the following way:

Hangar = $350/ month which comes out to $4200 per year. After 5 years of saving hangar rent you could get the plane painted.
Click to expand...

after 5 years of being outside it is going to need some paint, that's for sure
 
hindsight2020 said:
second the request to send original airport coords. $100/mo is bueno, asking for a friend for retirement considerations. The big metros are not friendly to my *cough* my friend's hobby.
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Come to Peoria. $158/mo bro. Everyone loves Illinois. :p
 
ksandrew said:
Before I built my own hangar I looked a lot into fabric structures. Having owned a tent company for fifty years I was well versed in the engineering and capabilities of these structures.

So many airports have surplus blacktop areas, not always perfectly level and some water may run through your hangar. But a hangar you could erect in a week-end, and then remove it in a day, have the land on a shorter term lease rather than 30 years and leaving your hangar behind. No bi-fold door but a reinforced curtain. The main thing is to keep the price down. And make it easy to erect and move.

Life is a barrel of fun.

Ken Andrew
Click to expand...

But will it meet code? I can't imagine a windy place like an airport allowing structures that are not firmly anchored and can't meet wind/snow loads.
 
Pfarber, Yes and well exceed the code. The military have been using them for years. The wind and snow loads they can accommodate can far exceed those of traditional metal buildings. Building my hangar most of the cost was in the concrete slab, the bifold door and erection costs. You would actually have to work with them to become a believer. On the door I am assuming that a plane owner would rather spend a few minutes releasing the door ratchets rather than having 25m invested in a bi-fold door. Keep it simple but effective.

Life is a barre of fun.

Ken
 
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