Had my first BFR tonight...

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fudge80

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fudge80
And crossed the 200 landing mark also.

BFR was great, the first time I flew with this instructor, I knew him well but have just never flown with him. The plan was to go up in my plane for who knows what since it was my first BFR and First time with him but the battery was dead on my plane so he hand propped it to start(Cessna 172N), it had been a long time since I last flew and had my GPS plugged in still. Its embarrassing to say but my plane has sat for 8 months without flying.

After startup we went up and did 6-7 takeoffs and landings. He showed me a different technique than I was used to for putting flaps in, basically dumping them all in on final. Thats how he does it and he told me I'm free to do it however I want, whatever I was comfortable with.

Was alot of fun getting back up in the air after the long winter/spring break. After We went back to the hanger and did the signoff stuff I went back up for about an hour "joyride" around the area.

My wife mowed our last name in the grass since she knew I would eventually fly over too:)
 
Your entire BFR consisted of 7 landings?
And he showed you his technique? (Which also sounds odd)

I find that to be an odd BFR.

When I was actively instructing I was a fan of, while giving a BFR, to sit back and watch the candidate fly. If all was good, no instruction needed.
If weak areas, I certainly would train.

I would never try to impose a new technique, but that's just me.
 
Kritchlow said:
Your entire BFR consisted of 7 landings?
And he showed you his technique? (Which also sounds odd)

I find that to be an odd BFR.

When I was actively instructing I was a fan of, while giving a BFR, to sit back and watch the candidate fly. If all was good, no instruction needed.
If weak areas, I certainly would train.

I would never try to impose a new technique, but that's just me.
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I know back in the day there were a lot of articles in FLYING, etc, where they would suggest doing something really different on your BFR like do it in a make and model you weren't familiar with, or whatever. Just doing stuff out of the normal box. So I guess different strokes for different folks.
 
BrianNC said:
I know back in the day there were a lot of articles in FLYING, etc, where they would suggest doing something really different on your BFR like do it in a make and model you weren't familiar with, or whatever. Just doing stuff out of the normal box. So I guess different strokes for different folks.
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Indeed. I treated it more like a checkride where if they did what I asked within specs, they were good to go. Of course it wasn't a checkride, but that was the style in which I conducted it. If they were weak on an area than my CFI went into action to help them.

Bottom line, if they were good I didn't want to tinker with success. If they needed help, I was there to help however I could... but they got the sign off once they could do it on their own.

Things may have changed, as that was back in the 80's.
 
Kritchlow said:
And he showed you his technique? (Which also sounds odd)
....
I would never try to impose a new technique, but that's just me.
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I always tried to add to the pilot's knowlege and skill set...sometimes showing them a different technique (not "imposing" it, and it doesn't sound like it was "imposed" on the OP, either) is appropriate.
 
MauleSkinner said:
I always tried to add to the pilot's knowlege and skill set...sometimes showing them a different technique (not "imposing" it, and it doesn't sound like it was "imposed" on the OP, either) is appropriate.
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I find adding initial flaps on downwind helps with maintaining the slow pattern speed, and increasing them on final combines well with throttle adjustments to maintain glideslope. Dumping them in all at once sounds kind of dumb . . .
 
Hank S said:
I find adding initial flaps on downwind helps with maintaining the slow pattern speed, and increasing them on final combines well with throttle adjustments to maintain glideslope. Dumping them in all at once sounds kind of dumb . . .
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Depends on the goal.
 
Kritchlow said:
Your entire BFR consisted of 7 landings?
And he showed you his technique? (Which also sounds odd)

I find that to be an odd BFR.

When I was actively instructing I was a fan of, while giving a BFR, to sit back and watch the candidate fly. If all was good, no instruction needed.
If weak areas, I certainly would train.

I would never try to impose a new technique, but that's just me.
Click to expand...


It was really laid back. All he said was "Here, I want to show you how I do it" and later "You do whatever you are comfortable with, I just wanted to show you another way"

As far as the TO's and landings he said we could pretty much do whatever I thought I needed help with, he also said we can screw around all night if that's what I wanted to do. He charges a flat fee so he kind of left it up to me as far as how much or how little I needed out of it.

I would assume that when you did BFR's that you knew within 10 minutes whether the pilot was safe or not, I also assume after flying around the pattern an hour with me that he had a good indication I didn't need to do a full checkride again.
 
Hank S said:
I find adding initial flaps on downwind helps with maintaining the slow pattern speed, and increasing them on final combines well with throttle adjustments to maintain glideslope. Dumping them in all at once sounds kind of dumb . . .
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I shouldn't of said "dumping them all in at once" We went 10, adjust, 20, adjust, 30, adjust. It just seemed to me dumping them all at once versus the old way of 10 degrees on downwind, 20 on base, then 30 on final.

His way takes less time and probably the same result.
 
Had my first BFR last year. I was expecting a checkride but that wasn't it at all. He asked me what I wanted to work on and then we focused our time on those areas. As was stated earlier, it will be pretty obvious in short order whether or not someone is safe.
 
Hank S said:
I find adding initial flaps on downwind helps with maintaining the slow pattern speed, and increasing them on final combines well with throttle adjustments to maintain glideslope. Dumping them in all at once sounds kind of dumb . . .
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It depends. If I'm flying and I have a jet behind me, I'll leave the flaps out.
 
jordane93 said:
It depends. If I'm flying and I have a jet behind me, I'll leave the flaps out.
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That's a good idea, but at some point I still need to slow down and land. I learned at an obstructed 3000' field, and am now based on 3200' with pretty open (but not flat) approaches at both ends, so I practice no flap landings elsewhere.
 
Hank S said:
That's a good idea, but at some point I still need to slow down and land. I learned at an obstructed 3000' field, and am now based on 3200' with pretty open (but not flat) approaches at both ends, so I practice no flap landings elsewhere.
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I guess I worded that poorly. I'll eventually add flaps but not on downwind if I'm being chased by a jet.
 
fudge80 said:
I shouldn't of said "dumping them all in at once" We went 10, adjust, 20, adjust, 30, adjust. It just seemed to me dumping them all at once versus the old way of 10 degrees on downwind, 20 on base, then 30 on final.

His way takes less time and probably the same result.
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And adding a lot of flaps quickly while slowing down is how you finish an ILS at 200 AGL.
 
MAKG1 said:
And adding a lot of flaps quickly while slowing down is how you finish an ILS at 200 AGL.
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I generally start my ILSs with partial flaps, and if I don't break out (of clouds or foggles) until 200', I just land the plane that way, I don't go screwing with it and making significant changes.
 
Hank S said:
I generally start my ILSs with partial flaps, and if I don't break out (of clouds or foggles) until 200', I just land the plane that way, I don't go screwing with it and making significant changes.
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You can float for a LONG time like that.

One of the LPVs locally is on a 3100 foot runway. Landing 10 flaps at 90 knots in a 172 will be problematic.
 
MAKG1 said:
You can float for a LONG time like that.

One of the LPVs locally is on a 3100 foot runway. Landing 10 flaps at 90 knots in a 172 will be problematic.
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That's why you have a throttle. All the drag a Cessna has, pulling throttle to idle should slow it down in a hurry.

What's MDA/DH on that LPV anyway?
 
mtuomi said:
You can be at pattern altitude on a 172 over the numbers and you can still land on 3100ft.
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Not if you keep it at 10 flaps and 90 knots to the flare. Doing the math, you'll eat up 3 miles just descending, and will overrun by 12000 feet before even starting the flare. It requires an aggressive slip, full flap, and 60 KIAS to do that from pattern altitude over the numbers.

If you do it sensibly, 3100 feet is pretty easy. But that doesn't seem to prevent the occasional overrun there.

There is no MDA on an LPV. DH is 400 AGL due to the mall on short final.
 
MAKG1 said:
Not if you keep it at 10 flaps and 90 knots to the flare. Doing the math, you'll eat up 3 miles just descending, and will overrun by 12000 feet before even starting the flare. It requires an aggressive slip, full flap, and 60 KIAS to do that from pattern altitude over the numbers.

If you do it sensibly, 3100 feet is pretty easy. But that doesn't seem to prevent the occasional overrun there.

There is no MDA on an LPV. DH is 400 AGL due to the mall on short final.
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You fly your approaches in a 172 at 90kts?

Chop the power, full flaps and full sideslip, pull up until right at stall and it might work out, but I wouldn't try it :) I have done it on a 150 (no need for those stunts in that one), it's fun and easy.
 
mtuomi said:
You fly your approaches in a 172 at 90kts?

Chop the power, full flaps and full sideslip, pull up until right at stall and it might work out, but I wouldn't try it :) I have done it on a 150 (no need for those stunts in that one), it's fun and easy.
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In an LPV, yes. The context is also rather important. You might want to review the thread you are responding to. My point was that you DON'T fly stabilized approaches to the flare after breaking out at minimums on an LPV or ILS.
 
MAKG1 said:
Not if you keep it at 10 flaps and 90 knots to the flare. Doing the math, you'll eat up 3 miles just descending, and will overrun by 12000 feet before even starting the flare. It requires an aggressive slip, full flap, and 60 KIAS to do that from pattern altitude over the numbers.

If you do it sensibly, 3100 feet is pretty easy. But that doesn't seem to prevent the occasional overrun there.

There is no MDA on an LPV. DH is 400 AGL due to the mall on short final.
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If you see the field At DHL of 400 agl, it can be easily made without dumping in full flaps. I fly approaches at 90 knots, but generally begin reducing speed at MDA/DH. Crossing the numbers at 90 knot approach speed sounds silly to me, but whatever floats your boat. I prefer to cross the numbers closer to 70 mph (60 knots). If I can't get close to that from 400 agl, then I shouldn't be shooting an approach to minimums at a 3100' field.

I was based at a 3000' field with tall trees at both ends for 7 years, and have spent the last 2 years based on 3200'. It ain't hard to land at either one, but I don't try crossing the numbers at 90 knots, IFR or VFR.

If it's an ILS to a long field, 90 knots to 200 agl then throttle back won't be an issue (and my Mooney in ground effect will outfloat anything Cessna ever thought about building).
 
All instructors give BFRs differently. I know one that is really strict, and I know another that just does the barebone minimums of what is legal to sign you off
 
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