GTX 345 Audio call out - NOT

[WannFly]

so after a few trips to my avionics guy, finally i have all the squawks sorted out (dont jinx it) apart from one which is ironically fairly hard to test in the air. I had posted here before about my GTX 345 not making any audio call out about traffic whatsoever. I understand there is specific logic on these certificated units that only calls when it is absolutely necessary or it thinks it is absolutely necessary.

so far I have gotten 2 callouts on the GTN (traffic pop-up), but no associated audio callouts. one was upon take off roll another big iron was taxing, another one last evening, as i was landing and a 172 was taxing, in all fairness i was crabbed and my nose was pointing to the 172. anyway, i am looking for ideas on what could be the problem.

GTX configuration setting - Traffic callout is enabled.
I get audio from GTX - timer expired and leaving altitude

GTN - i get 500 feet callout

so audio from both are working... i am wondering if there is any special hidden setting in GTN where audio has to be turned on? or a special wiring that they might have missed. at a loss here...

on a different note, finally figuring out the audio panel and the GTN together... pirep coming soon

 

[bnt83]

so after a few trips to my avionics guy, finally i have all the squawks sorted out (dont jinx it) apart from one which is ironically fairly hard to test in the air. I had posted here before about my GTX 345 not making any audio call out about traffic whatsoever. I understand there is specific logic on these certificated units that only calls when it is absolutely necessary or it thinks it is absolutely necessary.

so far I have gotten 2 callouts on the GTN (traffic pop-up), but no associated audio callouts. one was upon take off roll another big iron was taxing, another one last evening, as i was landing and a 172 was taxing, in all fairness i was crabbed and my nose was pointing to the 172. anyway, i am looking for ideas on what could be the problem.

GTX configuration setting - Traffic callout is enabled.
I get audio from GTX - timer expired and leaving altitude

GTN - i get 500 feet callout

so audio from both are working... i am wondering if there is any special hidden setting in GTN where audio has to be turned on? or a special wiring that they might have missed. at a loss here...

on a different note, finally figuring out the audio panel and the GTN together... pirep coming soon

Pull the breakers on the GTN and you still have audio coming from the GTX?

This is how mine is wired and traffic audio works goot.

There might be some config setting somewhere messed up, without sitting there and paging through them and comparing it to mine I don't think I could member any of it.

 

[WannFly]

Pull the breakers on the GTN and you still have audio coming from the GTX?

i will give it a shot and report back. my audio panel is diff (GMA 350C), would the PINs be different?

 

[Ryan Klems]

If you are getting the other call outs from the GTX the only thing I can think to check is if the traffic alert is enabled (but that’d be a strange thing for someone to disable):



Or if someone configured a traffic audio mute discrete and it’s grounded....



You can check those in config mode

 

[WannFly]

If you are getting the other call outs from the GTX the only thing I can think to check is if the traffic alert is enabled (but that’d be a strange thing for someone to disable):

View attachment 87795

Or if someone configured a traffic audio mute discrete and it’s grounded....

View attachment 87796

You can check those in config mode

ok this gets me somewhere, in the config page, my setting as far as i can remember is traffic message, i dont even have the option of W/ chime, like i do with altitude callout. i will swing back to the hangar this PM and take another closer look at take some pics. but again in the first screenshot it says that particular setting is only for 335. i am guessing the traffic audio mute is in one of the config pages? i dont remember seeing it in the config and i have been there a few times

 

[Ryan Klems]

ok this gets me somewhere, in the config page, my setting as far as i can remember is traffic message, i dont even have the option of W/ chime, like i do with altitude callout. i will swing back to the hangar this PM and take another closer look at take some pics. but again in the first screenshot it says that particular setting is only for 335. i am guessing the traffic audio mute is in one of the config pages? i dont remember seeing it in the config and i have been there a few times

Yeah, that note is odd though... as the 335 doesn't get traffic...

The mute is under the "Discrete In" page. There are a number of discretes that could affect the audio, "AUD MUTE", "AUD CNCL", "Traffic Audio Mute" and "Traffic Audio Cancel", but the Traffic Audio Mute would be the most likely suspect for this. Presumably they didn't wire a switch in the panel for traffic mute or anything?

Getting an alert from the 345 is exceedingly rare for me when flying. One thing I do note from the Pilots Guide: "To minimize nuisance alerts, traffic alerting sensitivity is adaptive based on altitude above ground level. In fixed winged aircraft no aural alerts are given below 500 feet." Based on the two scenarios you've described, I'm wondering if the GTX filtered the audio callouts (since it sounds like you were likely < 500 AGL both times), but still displayed the visual ones?

 

[WannFly]

Presumably they didn't wire a switch in the panel for traffic mute or anything?

no switch on the panel for any mute operation. in fact there were old switches connected to the electric trim trim etc that they took out, so i have less switches now. anyway. great point on the manual.. both cases i was under 500 AGL. i assumed if GTN pops up traffic warning, it should be associated with a audio call out. good point.

i will check the discrete In page later today or tomorrow. and for the ultimate test.... I think i am going to fly straight towards @Sinistar and see if i get a audio call out and hopefully not hit him lol

 

[Grum.Man]

Traffic has to be closer than 1 mile for mine to give an audible alert. Not sure if that’s adjustable, just an observation.

 

[Sinistar]

In case you didn't know the GTX345 setup menu is pressing the power button and enter button at the same time.

The first config pages are the basic audio pages and include the traffic message selection. Maybe review those down on the ground on your GPU.

While you are on the basic config page you can force all (3) messages - have you ever forced it to annunciate the traffic alert on this page? Obviously it should work since the other two do but couldn't hurt to try it here.

I love the part about not calling out traffic below 500AGL. How the hell does the GTX345 know AGL? It must be based on the takeoff pressure altitude? So this wouldn't always work depending on how much elevation change you traverse. Does it actually have a terrain database onboard? If you are bluetooth to a tablet is it bi-directional and the tablet feeds AGL info back into it?

Yes you can fly right at me. How about we meet 5 miles from my airport LOL!

Maybe another data point. Your GTX345 was installed before the GTN750 so if something is wrong it was wrong before the navigator install.

We just need to meet up and verify in the air.

 

[WannFly]

How the hell does the GTX345 know AGL?

my my case, G5 is providing baro corrected alt data to everything. GTX might just go by pressure alt, not sure. yah have checked all the config pages and traffic is enabled. it has 2 option, Off (or No) and traffic message. even the test mgs is working just fine saying what she is supposed to - traffic what ever 5 miles away bla bla bla

 

[Ryan Klems]

I love the part about not calling out traffic below 500AGL. How the hell does the GTX345 know AGL? It must be based on the takeoff pressure altitude? So this wouldn't always work depending on how much elevation change you traverse. Does it actually have a terrain database onboard? If you are bluetooth to a tablet is it bi-directional and the tablet feeds AGL info back into it?

Not sure how this would work when it has it's own GPS for ADS-B as there is no terrain database to be updated (I'm guessing it doesn't), but when fed from an external navigator from the approved list, those should be capable of providing a height above terrain value in the data stream.

 

[Sinistar]

I'm thinking their GTX345 user manual and the bit about no warnings below 500feet is leaving out some details!

Would be kind of funny if you took off from Denver and flew east. As you started flowing lower you would never hear any audio traffic callouts until you landed and it started over again.

That is why I was wondering if the Bluetooth between the GTX345 and Tablet was feeding back Tablet based terrain AGL into the xpdr? That would be enough to make it work. But I would think the bluetooth data stream between GTX345 and tablet is one way only (xpdr -> tablet)

 

[WannFly]

@Ryan Klems

took some picture of the config. Traffic audio is set to Message, there is no W/ Chime option.

in the discrete page , this is what the default page looked like



i changed it to



however, i couldnt find a way to change that NC to anything else. i also checked the Discrete OUT setting on GTN and both the traffic options (dont remember what those options are now) are set to OUT.

thoughts? if all the configuration is looking good, my only option is to wait till i get a traffic pop-up in the air and see if i get a audio call out

 

[denverpilot]

Yeah, that note is odd though... as the 335 doesn't get traffic...

The mute is under the "Discrete In" page. There are a number of discretes that could affect the audio, "AUD MUTE", "AUD CNCL", "Traffic Audio Mute" and "Traffic Audio Cancel", but the Traffic Audio Mute would be the most likely suspect for this. Presumably they didn't wire a switch in the panel for traffic mute or anything?

Getting an alert from the 345 is exceedingly rare for me when flying. One thing I do note from the Pilots Guide: "To minimize nuisance alerts, traffic alerting sensitivity is adaptive based on altitude above ground level. In fixed winged aircraft no aural alerts are given below 500 feet." Based on the two scenarios you've described, I'm wondering if the GTX filtered the audio callouts (since it sounds like you were likely < 500 AGL both times), but still displayed the visual ones?

Not sure if helpful but we rarely get alerts from our GTN either when I was flying it. Very very tuned to “you really are going to hit them” in busy airspace.

I’d see stuff I wanted to be a lot further from than I was comfortable with on the traffic data being sent to the iPad, long long before the GTN was unhappy about it.

Anecdotal and different gear, I know, but just a point of info for the discussion. I think their adaptive thing technically works well, and avoids nuisance alerts well, but if I got it to squawk, I was reeeeealy close to someone and converging.

 

[denverpilot]

Would be kind of funny if you took off from Denver and flew east. As you started flowing lower you would never hear any audio traffic callouts until you landed and it started over again.

Never had that problem. It’s just calculating height above the GPS Earth “spheroid” constantly, I’m pretty sure. Never seen it in print in the docs though. Probably isn’t 100% accurate but doesn’t need to be for what’s essentially just a “you’re probably landing” filter.

It was hard to get ours to alert even at 1000 AGL in the pattern with 12 other aircraft really. Other filters kick in. In fact what it really disliked the most was takeoffs behind a slower aircraft with a delayed turn out by ATC.

And saying a 182 was overtaking someone is funny as heck anyway. LOL

 

[Ryan Klems]

@Ryan Klems

took some picture of the config. Traffic audio is set to Message, there is no W/ Chime option.

in the discrete page , this is what the default page looked like

View attachment 87871

i changed it to

View attachment 87872

however, i couldnt find a way to change that NC to anything else. i also checked the Discrete OUT setting on GTN and both the traffic options (dont remember what those options are now) are set to OUT.

thoughts? if all the configuration is looking good, my only option is to wait till i get a traffic pop-up in the air and see if i get a audio call out

That indicates that the traffic mute is not configured, which is good. I’d say it’s likely just filtering out the aural callouts due to being within 500’ AGL. I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve gotten a aural call out on my 345, all on traffic I knew about and could see visually but that was within 500’ vertically and 1mi horizontally, but not at low altitude. So my guess is everything is good and you just haven’t been in a situation where it will give the aural warning yet.

 

[WannFly]

Thanks everyone, i will just try to chase and catch up with brad one of these days ( and ask him slow down lol) and report back

 

[Jdm]

Same equipment here. I’ve been using it since March. Hadn’t received any audible traffic callous until yesterday.
Here’s how it happened: ATC kinda forgot about us while being vectored for instrument approaches in VMC. We were operating VFR in and under a very busy class B airspace. There were small weather cells everywhere. Multiple aircraft were flying lower than normal to remain clear of the weather. ATC was allowing the VFR traffic to deviate as needed to remain visual. We basically had a bunch of us running low while picking our way around multiple rain cells under class B.
ATC left us on a heading with an “at or below” clearance, along with lateral wx deviation approval. We were at 2,000 (1,700 AGL) when I received a loud and clear traffic alert through the headset. The screen on the GI-275 is where I first noticed the traffic. Apparently the 275 decluttered because it became super obvious. The traffic was very close, showing 300 below and climbing. Received a 2nd aural alert maybe 10sec later. My eyes were searching hard as I located the traffic exactly where it was reported. It was probably less than 1 mile away. The system worked perfectly.

 

[Atypicalguy]

I fly a 140 in LA and am thinking this audio feature is precisely what I want. I am pretty sure the encounter I had on downwind with a departing aircraft the other day would have had it chirping. The 4k cost to upgrade from my 335 suddenly seems like a cheap way to stay alive.

 

[Sinistar]

I fly a 140 in LA and am thinking this audio feature is precisely what I want. I am pretty sure the encounter I had on downwind with a departing aircraft the other day would have had it chirping. The 4k cost to upgrade from my 335 suddenly seems like a cheap way to stay alive.

Quick question...by upgrade do you mean

A. swap 335 for a 345
B. 335 is internally updated to 345 capability

...for 'A' I would think the upgrade would exceed $6k unless the 345 basically slides in place.

For 'B' I wasn't sure if you get all the 345 functionality including the aural alerts?

 

[asicer]

...for 'A' I would think the upgrade would exceed $6k unless the 345 basically slides in place.

335 has a single connector in the back. 345 has the same connector in the back but adds a 2nd connector for ADS-B In functions.

Whether or not it's a slide-in depends on whether or not that 2nd connector was pre-wired in anticipation of sliding in a 345 upgrade.

 

[mondtster]

335 has a single connector in the back. 345 has the same connector in the back but adds a 2nd connector for ADS-B In functions.

Whether or not it's a slide-in depends on whether or not that 2nd connector was pre-wired in anticipation of sliding in a 345 upgrade.

It also may depend on how the features are being used. I haven’t had to wire anything to the second connector on the 345s I’ve installed.

 

[asicer]

It also may depend on how the features are being used. I haven’t had to wire anything to the second connector on the 345s I’ve installed.

True, if nothing needs RS232 or Ethernet (e.g. all the ADS-B In stuff goes via Bluetooth) then it really is a slide-in.

 

[mondtster]

True, if nothing needs RS232 or Ethernet (e.g. all the ADS-B In stuff goes via Bluetooth) then it really is a slide-in.

Even if it needs rs232 there are some options in the main connector. The ones I’ve done all were hard wired to other garmin displays. But my installs have been pretty basic compared to some.

 

[asicer]

Even if it needs rs232 there are some options in the main connector. The ones I’ve done all were hard wired to other garmin displays. But my installs have been pretty basic compared to some.

I thought all of the RS232 on the main connector are inputs to the transponder and none of them are outputs.

 

[mondtster]

I thought all of the RS232 on the main connector are inputs to the transponder and none of them are outputs.

Nope. there are at least two RS232 lines in the main connector and they will do transmit and receive.

 

[Sinistar]

So the 335 has aural alerts and is wired to the audio panel? That seems to be where it would be more labor than expected if not wired there already.

 

[bnt83]

It also may depend on how the features are being used. I haven’t had to wire anything to the second connector on the 345s I’ve installed.

All of them should be wired to GTN ethernet ports. There are other inputs/outputs on that connector but the GTN HSDB interface is probably the most common use for that connector.

 

[mondtster]

All of them should be wired to GTN ethernet ports. There are other inputs/outputs on that connector but the GTN HSDB interface is probably the most common use for that connector.

All of what should be?