GTN 650xi, GTX345, NO Flightstream 510 but??

[JVerb]

We have gtn 650xi and a gtx345, but did not get the flightstream 510 card when it was installed a year ago. I bought into the plane right after the navcom install, so I don't know the history of the avionics well. I've been told we have a broken flightstream 210 in the plane that doesn't work (latest avionix shop troubleshooted it during a new AP install recently, and couldn't get it to work, either).

When I first flew the plane a year ago, I connected garmin pilot via ipad mini by bluetooth to the GTN650xi. It doesn't have the menu in the 345 to connect directly to it, so I know I'm connected through the GTN.

What I don't understand is, I have ADSB data, both aircraft targets and weather, showing up on my EFB. What does the Flightstream 510 actually do then, verses the base 650xi/345 combo, then?? I'd really like to be able to sync flight plans both directions, which I know the flightstream will do, but for $1800 or so, that doesn't seem worth is since I already have adsb data coming in from the 345. Is there a way to sync flight plans & do database updated wirelessly, other than the flightstream 510??

 

[WDD]

What does the Flightstream 510 actually do then, verses the base 650xi/345 combo, then?? I'd really like to be able to sync flight plans both directions, which I know the flightstream will do, but for $1800 or so, that doesn't seem worth is since I already have adsb data coming in from the 345.

FlightStream is used for syncing flight plans and data.

I agree; for me, it's not worth it. Flight plans are easy enough to enter into the GTN and the EFB, I've never had a problem with entering both. Actually, with the plan and subsequent constant changes, I usually just work the GTN and use the EFB for moving map, weather, traffic, and pull up the Arrivals and Approach plates. Data? Easy enough for me once a month to put a data card in the GTN 650 Xi and GNC 355, and under 5 seconds all are updated.

AND..... Flightstream only works with Garmin Pilot and ForeFlight. For a lot of people not a problem, but you are limited in your choices.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I agree; for me, it's not worth it. Flight plans are easy enough to enter into the GTN and the EFB, I've never had a problem with entering both. Actually, with the plan and subsequent constant changes, I usually just work the GTN and use the EFB for moving map, weather, traffic, and pull up the Arrivals and Approach plates. Data? Easy enough for me once a month to put a data card in the GTN 650 Xi and GNC 355, and under 5 seconds all are updated.

I tend to agree. Sure, there's definitely a convenience factor in being able to plan a complex flight at home and push it to the avionics. But in a GTN+/IFD world where it's easy, whether that convenience is worth the costs of entry is going to be different for different people.

OTOH, if you are still using a GNS 4xx/5xx, just the ability to enter airways and push them to the avionics raises the value if you regularly fly in an area where that's what you are going to get.

 

[M20K]

Something doesn't make sense... Do you have another device that could be sending ADS-B info to your EFB? If not, then are you sure the FS210 broken? Next time you've got eveything turned on, check your iPad to see what Bluetooth (or WiFi) devices you're connected to. Is something other than your GTN your ADS-B source? (And if you're getting it through the Internet, that's not a good thing to do in flight. Traffic can ge greatly delayed via the Internet.)

And what EFB are you using? Only G Pilot, ForeFlight, FltPlan Go and (now) AvPlan can connect to your GTN. And you need a Fight Stream (either FS210 or FS510) for that connection to the GTN, there is no built-in Bluetooth (or WiFi).

As for the GTX345, I'm not sure if you can still connect that way. Garmin made a stupid change a while ago that if a GTN is installed, you can connect ONLY to the GTN. (Basicly it means you have no backup even if you have another ADS-B device and the FS or the GTN fail.)

ADDED: To see the difference between the FS510 and 210, just do a search for "Flight Stream 510 vs 210" for a basic comparison.

 

[WDD]

@M20K

That is a sharp observation. OP, are you sure you're connecting to your GTN? What is your primary ADSB IN source / what kind of transponder do you have?

I didn't even know you could or would want to connect to your GTN.

 

[JVerb]

Something doesn't make sense... Do you have another device that could be sending ADS-B info to your EFB? If not, then are you sure the FS210 broken? Next time you've got eveything turned on, check your iPad to see what Bluetooth (or WiFi) devices you're connected to. Is something other than your GTN your ADS-B source? (And if you're getting it through the Internet, that's not a good thing to do in flight. Traffic can ge greatly delayed via the Internet.)

And what EFB are you using? Only G Pilot, ForeFlight, FltPlan Go and (now) AvPlan can connect to your GTN. And you need a Fight Stream (either FS210 or FS510) for that connection to the GTN, there is no built-in Bluetooth (or WiFi).

As for the GTX345, I'm not sure if you can still connect that way. Garmin made a stupid change a while ago that if a GTN is installed, you can connect ONLY to the GTN. (Basicly it means you have no backup even if you have another ADS-B device and the FS or the GTN fail.)

ADDED: To see the difference between the FS510 and 210, just do a search for "Flight Stream 510 vs 210" for a basic comparison.

I'm definitely connected to the GTN via bluetooth. I use Garmin Pilot for the EFB, too. It's a wifi-only ipad, so there's no chance it's getting data from the internet.

Correct; I can't connect to the GTX directly anymore; it has to be through the GTN605xi connection. The menu option on the GTX for bluetooth is removed; bluetooth connection setup is through the GTN screens.

It's very strange to me.

Edit: I think I found the issue. An overview of GTN650xi and GTX345 when a Flightstream is not installed, shows the GTN will act as the controlling hub for the GTX bluetooth connection; so really I'm connecting directly to the GTX, but the GTN becomes the controller of the connections for it and not the GTX menu options.

That is seriously confusing!! But, makes sense with the Flightstream not working how I'm still getting a connection from something!

 

[robin ardoin]

Yes, you get ADSB in from the gtx345 by way of a gtn. I am in the camp of really liking the FS510 (had one in both planes I’ve owned). The convenience of wireless database updates is very nice since I fly on IFR plans mostly. The flight plan transfer is nice, but, since I have a G500xi/GTN750/650xi/7” Txi display the ease of programming a FP directly in the 750 and all the display real estate lessens value other than DB updates and I don’t use the iPad much except for Jepp approach plates. In my last plane with two gi275’s/gtn650, I did prefer FP entry via ForeFlight on an iPad so that utility meant more with that panel.

 

[JVerb]

Yes, you get ADSB in from the gtx345 by way of a gtn. I am in the camp of really liking the FS510 (had one in both planes I’ve owned). The convenience of wireless database updates is very nice since I fly on IFR plans mostly. The flight plan transfer is nice, but, since I have a G500xi/GTN750/650xi/7” Txi display the ease of programming a FP directly in the 750 and all the display real estate lessens value other than DB updates and I don’t use the iPad much except for Jepp approach plates. In my last plane with two gi275’s/gtn650, I did prefer FP entry via ForeFlight on an iPad so that utility meant more with that panel.

Just need to find a cheaper way than the 510 from Garmin. $1800 is insane, even considering their usual price gouging, this is extreme.

 

[Pinecone]

The change was, if you install a 510, the BT on the GTX needs to be disabled. Not all shops do that.

 

[M20K]

GTX, but the GTN becomes the controller of the connections for it and not the GTX menu options.

Yes, again Garmin stupidity (you really have to wonder about some of the Dev Teams and if they listen to the actual pilots that use the gear).

If your iPad was connected to the GTX, it still is. The Connext menu has been removed in a software update, but it did not turn off the Bluetooth or remove the connection to your iPad. But the GTX345 does not have the capability to send a Route To/From the GTN and your G Pilot. For that you'd either need to figure out what's wrong with the FS210, or get a new Flight Stream (510 or another 210). Can your FS210 be sent in to Garmin for repair? Is the cost worth it or is it better to bite the bullet and get a new device? Or maybe a used one?

 

[robin ardoin]

Just need to find a cheaper way than the 510 from Garmin. $1800 is insane, even considering their usual price gouging, this is extreme.

I didn’t pay $1800 for either but was able to get dealer cost. However, the actual cost was still a bit much for what it consists of.

 

[FPK1]

$1665 now at Aircraft Spruce...

 

[M20K]

$1665 now at Aircraft Spruce...

The FS210 is $1299.00. But the question is if the $400ish difference is worth just getting the FS510.
- FS210 gives you AHRS if you don't have some other device that does it. (The OP has a FS210 now, so replacement is not as expensive as the initial installation.)
- FS510 gives you Database Concierge (and the OP uses G Pilot). But then the SD Card update is faster and more reliable, but you do need to remove the FS510 to put in the SD Card.

 

[Hang 4]

I'd say there's a good chance that the OP's FS210 works, but there needs to be a configuration change to disable bluetooth in the GTX. Did the installer wipe out all the Connext devices using the GTN? Disable BT in the GTX? Wipe out all the Garmin devices on the iPads and phones connecting to the panel and then restart everything trying to connect to the FS210?

 

[midlifeflyer]

Edit: I think I found the issue. An overview of GTN650xi and GTX345 when a Flightstream is not installed, shows the GTN will act as the controlling hub for the GTX bluetooth connection; so really I'm connecting directly to the GTX, but the GTN becomes the controller of the connections for it and not the GTX menu options

Yes, that’s how it works with a remote GTX345R.

 

[M20K]

I'd say there's a good chance that the OP's FS210 works, but there needs to be a configuration change to disable bluetooth in the GTX. Did the installer wipe out all the Connext devices using the GTN? Disable BT in the GTX? Wipe out all the Garmin devices on the iPads and phones connecting to the panel and then restart everything trying to connect to the FS210?

I'd STRONGLY suggest that he does not wipe out his currently working connection to the GTX until the FS210 issue is resolved. If the FS210 is working, he should be able to pair to it, which the avionics shop could not do.