GPS 4xx crossing radials

jssmith.lh

jssmith.lh

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Goldthwaite flyer
I'm actually going through some scenarios to sharpen my skills :)
Let's say I'm off airway IFR and the controller tells me to hold at crossing radials. How do I set this up on a Garmin 400 series? I go to the user waypoint page and can enter radial and distance from a VOR. It shows a place for a second VOR but I can't get it to retain a radial when I enter it. Can this be done or is the crossing radial it shows from radial and distance entry just a reference?
 
"Radial/Distance" and crossing radials are mutually exclusive. If you know the distance, it defines the point. No need for anything else.

I don't have it in front of me, but you should be able to select something like "Radial/Radial" as a definitional option along with Radial/Distance and Lat/Long.

Edit: Nope. I'm seeing the same behavior as you. Radial/Radial user definitions don't appear to be supported in the GNS series as they are in the GTN. No mention of them in the user guide.
 
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I dial in the VOR frequency on the 430 and the radial on the HSI and hit the VLOC/GPS swap button. Then I dial in the other VOR frequency and radial on my other radio, and do the holds.

"But but but, no MLOD!"
 
I have never heard of crossing radials being given without it having a waypoint name. But if you big knob to waypoint group and little knob to the last one "user waypoint" you should be able to make a waypoint using 2 VOR radials or 1 VOR radial and distance. fly to that waypoint and use obs for your hold.
May just be easier to tune the two nav radios though...

Found something for you....
go straight to minute 4:32 and I think you'll see your solution
 
jssmith.lh said:
I'm actually going through some scenarios to sharpen my skills :)
Let's say I'm off airway IFR and the controller tells me to hold at crossing radials. How do I set this up on a Garmin 400 series? I go to the user waypoint page and can enter radial and distance from a VOR. It shows a place for a second VOR but I can't get it to retain a radial when I enter it. Can this be done or is the crossing radial it shows from radial and distance entry just a reference?
Click to expand...

If your going to hold at crossing radials I'm assuming you will be holding 'on' one of them. If by "I'm off airway" you mean the controller has cleared you direct to the intersection of those two radials from a random point, and then wants you to hold on one of them, you have to define that point as Waypoint somehow. But I'm going to assume you are already established on one of the radials. You do it just like holding at an intersection with only one VOR reciever in the plane. When established on the holding radial, stay on the heading that keeps you on that radial. Now change to the other VOR with the crossing radial dialed in. When you get to the intersection make the outbound turn, fly for a minute while changing back to the holding radial VOR so you can intercept the holding radial inbound. Get established, hold that heading, change back to crossing VOR. Repeat. This will be a little more tedious with just a single GNS because you will have to use the OBS button to define the radial, which takes more actions to accomplish than just 'dialing' in the radial and waiting for the CDI needle to center as you would with a VOR reciever.
 
I have a GPS400 and one VOR so can't do it the old fashioned way. Sorry Ed :p What was confusing me was when I hit enter after changing the second VOR/radial it would change back to the original VOR. What I didn't notice is it was changing the radial to match my new waypoint. Clear as mud, eh?
Long story short, it works as long as you don't care what VOR shows up on the user waypoint page.
 
jssmith.lh said:
I have a GPS400 and one VOR so can't do it the old fashioned way. Sorry Ed :p What was confusing me was when I hit enter after changing the second VOR/radial it would change back to the original VOR. What I didn't notice is it was changing the radial to match my new waypoint. Clear as mud, eh?
Long story short, it works as long as you don't care what VOR shows up on the user waypoint page.
Click to expand...

Sure ya can. Turn either the VOR or the GPS off. You said you wanted do some stuff to sharpen your skills. Have fun.
 
Ah yeah, the 400 doesnt do nav. Forgot about that. I think my response would be "unable, I can do a radial and distance though"
 
EdFred said:
Ah yeah, the 400 doesnt do nav. Forgot about that. I think my response would be "unable, I can do a radial and distance though"
Click to expand...
I would use the gps to select one radial and #2 nav to load in the crossing one.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I would use the gps to select one radial and #2 nav to load in the crossing one.
Click to expand...

That would sort of depend what sort of flight plan you currently have in the plane wouldn't it. If your flight plan doesn't include a VOR. Now you have to insert the VOR as a waypoint on the FPL, then dial in the OBS, right?
 
EdFred said:
That would sort of depend what sort of flight plan you currently have in the plane wouldn't it. If your flight plan doesn't include a VOR. Now you have to insert the VOR as a waypoint on the FPL, then dial in the OBS, right?
Click to expand...

I 'think' if u have a 650/750 u could do it without having to futz with the existing flight plan.
 
ATC are less likely to express it as a crossing radial but more as a distance along a radial.
 
EdFred said:
That would sort of depend what sort of flight plan you currently have in the plane wouldn't it. If your flight plan doesn't include a VOR. Now you have to insert the VOR as a waypoint on the FPL, then dial in the OBS, right?
Click to expand...
At worst, yes. But we do that with every route amendment that adds a waypoint, so I don't see it as a big deal. Certainly not an "unable."

The practical reality is, ad hoc holds are typically a direct entry along the route you are already following. It is usually at a named waypoint (which you might have to insert) or a distance from a known fix. A cross radial would be rare, but might be even easier in that context.
 
In all my years of instrument flying, I can count on one hand the number of times ATC gave me instructions which required radials of TWO different VORs. And each time, reviewing it later showed that a named intersection existed which would have made the communication and of course the navigation easier, though the intersection wasn't always charted on the IFR enroute chart.

That's for ATC. Now, flight instructors or examiners on a checkride, that's a different story...
 
jssmith.lh said:
I'm actually going through some scenarios to sharpen my skills :)

Let's say I'm off airway IFR and the controller tells me to hold at crossing radials. How do I set this up on a Garmin 400 series? I go to the user waypoint page and can enter radial and distance from a VOR. It shows a place for a second VOR but I can't get it to retain a radial when I enter it. Can this be done or is the crossing radial it shows from radial and distance entry just a reference?
Click to expand...



Take a look at this post, it may help you with the intersecting radials. http://gmflightlog.blogspot.com/2017/06/buttonology-intersecting-points.html
 
ATC has no idea of the "box" you are dealing with. They will usually go out of their way to help with something else..............if you ask.
 
I would first reflect on what you may have done to that Controller in the past for theM to remember your tail number to exact some serious revenge and address that!
 
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