Got the medical but FAA won't supply student cert?

mscard88 said:
Do you have a older (original when you first started) student pilot cert/medical certificate w/ the endorsements on it? And are you now getting another physical because the first one (Student Pilot Cert/Medical) has expired (medical portion)? If you still have the first one (student pilot cert) you need to carry that with you along with the new physical certificate.
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THIS. Because I was the worlds longest time student pilot, I was in the situation, right through my checkride.

You carry two certificates. The first one is your original student certificate that happens to have an expired medical on the back of it. The second one is your current medical.

I can't tell you how many CFIs and the DPE I had who says my two pieces of paper and explained exactly what I said above, which I already knew, "THIS ONE is...and THIS ONE is..." Thanks.
 
rosssr20 said:
Got an appointment with the FSDO. Wasn't able to find a DPE... Unless anyone knows one near NYC?
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That will work for ya.....

Oh , and have previously mentioned.. Be ready to navigate the utterly stupid security getting into the office/ building.... When I was building my experimental back in 2004 and needing the repairman cert, I had to visit the FSFO in Casper Wy...It is a 3 employee office that took up the top floor on a office building..

I HAD to make an appointment weeks in advance...
I HAD to park in the assigned parking spot..
I HAD to call before I went up in the elevator...
I HAD to be buzzed into the outer room / airlock..
I HAD to call once in there where they instructed me to show my ID into a camera....
I HAD to be buzzed into the front of the office by the counter....
I HAD to show my ID again...

I HAD to wait till their morning coffee break was over before I met with the FAA rep.


I mean, just how much damage /trouble can a terrorist cause to a small FAA field office..:dunno::dunno::dunno:..

And, while I am ranting, the local tower guys are real friendly and I visit them often..... To get into the cab you have to call on the landline first, then get escorted past the entry door on ground level, then pass through another security door half way up the stairs.....

We always joke that a bad guy with a handheld standing outside the airport can do more damage /cause trouble then someone who " takes over" the cab....

Absolutely idiotic rules...:mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2:
 
N801BH said:
That will work for ya.....

Oh , and have previously mentioned.. Be ready to navigate the utterly stupid security getting into the office/ building.... When I was building my experimental back in 2004 and needing the repairman cert, I had to visit the FSFO in Casper Wy...It is a 3 employee office that took up the top floor on a office building..

I HAD to make an appointment weeks in advance...
I HAD to park in the assigned parking spot..
I HAD to call before I went up in the elevator...
I HAD to be buzzed into the outer room / airlock..
I HAD to call once in there where they instructed me to show my ID into a camera....
I HAD to be buzzed into the front of the office by the counter....
I HAD to show my ID again...

I HAD to wait till their morning coffee break was over before I met with the FAA rep.


I mean, just how much damage /trouble can a terrorist cause to a small FAA field office..:dunno::dunno::dunno:..

And, while I am ranting, the local tower guys are real friendly and I visit them often..... To get into the cab you have to call on the landline first, then get escorted past the entry door on ground level, then pass through another security door half way up the stairs.....

We always joke that a bad guy with a handheld standing outside the airport can do more damage /cause trouble then someone who " takes over" the cab....

Absolutely idiotic rules...:mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2:
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While it's easy to "blame the FAA" it's really not under their jurisdiction. The FAA are tenants in federal offices and buildings, and the people that take care of security in federal buildings have rules and regulations, and require their tenants to abide by them. You can thank people like Timothy McVeigh and other nut cases who have targeted federal buildings.
 
RotorAndWing said:
While it's easy to "blame the FAA" it's really not under their jurisdiction. The FAA are tenants in federal offices and buildings, and the people that take care of security in federal buildings have rules and regulations, and require their tenants to abide by them. You can thank people like Timothy McVeigh and other nut cases who have targeted federal buildings.
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Yeah,, But...

This is a private office building that happens to have the FAA renting space....

And building security would not stop a "Timothy Mc Veigh" style attack since he brought the entire building down from the street...., not just a few federal offices ...
 
N801BH said:
Yeah,, But...

This is a private office building that happens to have the FAA renting space....
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Yep, rented for the FAA by the GSA. And as part of the lease, requirements must be met for security and maintained. The FAA doesn't get to say "Well, we just will ignore the security rules and do it our way".

N801BH said:
And building security would not stop a "Timothy Mc Veigh" style attack since he brought the entire building down from the street...., not just a few federal offices ...
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Understood. I'm trying to make a point, that while many here believe the FAA is behind the enhanced security of their facilities, they aren't. It comes from way higher in the food chain.
 
N801BH said:
That will work for ya.....

Oh , and have previously mentioned.. Be ready to navigate the utterly stupid security getting into the office/ building.... When I was building my experimental back in 2004 and needing the repairman cert, I had to visit the FSFO in Casper Wy...It is a 3 employee office that took up the top floor on a office building..

I HAD to make an appointment weeks in advance...
I HAD to park in the assigned parking spot..
I HAD to call before I went up in the elevator...
I HAD to be buzzed into the outer room / airlock..
I HAD to call once in there where they instructed me to show my ID into a camera....
I HAD to be buzzed into the front of the office by the counter....
I HAD to show my ID again...

I HAD to wait till their morning coffee break was over before I met with the FAA rep.


I mean, just how much damage /trouble can a terrorist cause to a small FAA field office..:dunno::dunno::dunno:..

And, while I am ranting, the local tower guys are real friendly and I visit them often..... To get into the cab you have to call on the landline first, then get escorted past the entry door on ground level, then pass through another security door half way up the stairs.....

We always joke that a bad guy with a handheld standing outside the airport can do more damage /cause trouble then someone who " takes over" the cab....

Absolutely idiotic rules...:mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2:
Click to expand...


11+ years and still so ticked... I can see why your FSDO might desire such security.


My experience with my FSDO was quite different.
 
JoeSelch said:
11+ years and still so ticked... I can see why your FSDO might desire such security.


My experience with my FSDO was quite different.
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:rofl::rofl::lol::lol:...

I ain't ticked as much as I am tired to paying 10's of thousands each year in taxes and watching it be spent in wasteful ways....

Glad to hear you can walk right into your FSDO without jumping through any hoops...
 
Gee in DC (IAD) you call and they say come over. Your ring the bell at the bullet proof glass window and the FSDO weenie comes and meets you on a little round table in the ante-room and does whatever you needed.
 
NEFlyer said:
I'm confused. The third class medical is the student pilot certificate... At least mine was. It looked a lot like this one: http://learntoflyhere.com/2012/11/19/student-pilot-and-faa-medical-certificates/ Which specifically says "And Student Pilot Certificate". However, this was awhile ago. Have things changed?
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They changed things at some point in the last 6 months. A AME is no longer allowed to issue a student pilot certificate. It must be issued by a DPE or the FSDO. I just got my PPL, and my DPE said too many AME were not checking the right boxes, or verifying identity of people getting student pilot certs. The FAA took that away from them, and you must go to a FSDO, or DPE to get issued a student pilot cert now. It changed I think in August or sept 2015.
 
Best place to find my local DPE?
 
flyingron said:
Gee in DC (IAD) you call and they say come over. Your ring the bell at the bullet proof glass window and the FSDO weenie comes and meets you on a little round table in the ante-room and does whatever you needed.
Click to expand...

That's what the GRR FSDO is like too. Except I have to leave my pistol in the truck.
 
If this is an official policy the FAA should get their head out of their rectum and update the information on the website that tells student pilots to go deal with AMEs.
 
flyingron said:
If this is an official policy the FAA should get their head out of their rectum and update the information on the website that tells student pilots to go deal with AMEs.
Click to expand...

This wasn't a typical situation. Most student pilot applicants will never need to see a DPE until their checkride.
 
N801BH said:
That will work for ya.....

Oh , and have previously mentioned.. Be ready to navigate the utterly stupid security getting into the office/ building.... When I was building my experimental back in 2004 and needing the repairman cert, I had to visit the FSFO in Casper Wy...It is a 3 employee office that took up the top floor on a office building..

I HAD to make an appointment weeks in advance...
I HAD to park in the assigned parking spot..
I HAD to call before I went up in the elevator...
I HAD to be buzzed into the outer room / airlock..
I HAD to call once in there where they instructed me to show my ID into a camera....
I HAD to be buzzed into the front of the office by the counter....
I HAD to show my ID again...

I HAD to wait till their morning coffee break was over before I met with the FAA rep.


I mean, just how much damage /trouble can a terrorist cause to a small FAA field office..:dunno::dunno::dunno:..

And, while I am ranting, the local tower guys are real friendly and I visit them often..... To get into the cab you have to call on the landline first, then get escorted past the entry door on ground level, then pass through another security door half way up the stairs.....

We always joke that a bad guy with a handheld standing outside the airport can do more damage /cause trouble then someone who " takes over" the cab....

Absolutely idiotic rules...:mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2:
Click to expand...

in addition to what others said, inspectors in the FSDO aren't just waiting around in the office for pilot to show up. On any give day they could be out in the field, following up on case work the office, returning calls, training, or [GASP] on leave. They pretty much all have work piling up on them and focus on the highest priority safety items. By making an appointment ahead of time you're not sitting in a waiting room for hours waiting on an inspector to finish with the half dozen people who beat you into the office.
 
Brad Z said:
This wasn't a typical situation. Most student pilot applicants will never need to see a DPE until their checkride.
Click to expand...

There are a couple of exceptions:

Our glider club has a number of non-PP students. They have to go this route because they need a student certificate, but don't need a medical.

And I think the student certificate expires in 2 years? If your medical is good for 5, you might need to renew the certificate without the medical.
 
Matthew said:
There are a couple of exceptions:

Our glider club has a number of non-PP students. They have to go this route because they need a student certificate, but don't need a medical.

And I think the student certificate expires in 2 years? If your medical is good for 5, you might need to renew the certificate without the medical.
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Agreed, thus the use of the word:

Brad Z said:
Most
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There are other reasons too, of course. SODAs come to mind.
 
NY FSDO search for Pilot examiners returns zero results. Am I doing this wrong? (Office EA15) when I select DME/DPRE I get some results. DME was earlier noted as a typo but clearly the FAA thinks it means something other than distance measuring equipment.
 
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rosssr20 said:
NY FSDO search for Pilot examiners returns zero results. Am I doing this wrong? (Office EA15) when I select DME/DPRE I get some results. DME was earlier noted as a typo but clearly the FAA thinks it means something other than distance measuring equipment.
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Call the nearest flight school and ask for the name of a local DPE.
 
rosssr20 said:
NY FSDO search for Pilot examiners returns zero results. Am I doing this wrong? (Office EA15) when I select DME/DPRE I get some results. DME was earlier noted as a typo but clearly the FAA thinks it means something other than distance measuring equipment.
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The division of work for the NYC area FSDOs is a bit unusual. NY FSDO Doesn't handle DPEs. See here:

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/field_offices/fsdo/nyc/local_more/media/serviceareanyc.pdf

Try Farmingdale or Teterboro.
 
Brad Z said:
The division of work for the NYC area FSDOs is a bit unusual. NY FSDO Doesn't handle DPEs. See here:

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/field_offices/fsdo/nyc/local_more/media/serviceareanyc.pdf

Try Farmingdale or Teterboro.
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And people wonder why government employees are fat and lazy....

(Note: Service Area is
Blue
)
The New York FSDO is responsible for the following geographic areas in addition to the 5 boroughs of
New York City:
•
Bermud
a
•
Gree
nland
•
Oceanic areas within the Gander, New York, and Sondrestrom Flight Information Region
(includes John F. Kennedy and LaGaurdia Airports). This includes all Part 129 activity.
The New York FSDO is not responsible for:
•
Rotorcraft (helicopter) activity within the 5
boroughs of New York City. Rotorcraft issues
are handled by the Farmingdale FSDO.
•
Designated Pilot Examiners
•
De
signated Airworthiness Examiners
•
Inspe
ction Authorizations
•
Aviation Safety Program or FAASTeam
•
Flight Safety International based at LaGaurdia Airport



This FSDO must have a GREAT union rep...
 
N801BH said:
And people wonder why government employees are fat and lazy....

(Note: Service Area is
Blue
)
The New York FSDO is responsible for the following geographic areas in addition to the 5 boroughs of
New York City:
•
Bermud
a
•
Gree
nland
•
Oceanic areas within the Gander, New York, and Sondrestrom Flight Information Region
(includes John F. Kennedy and LaGaurdia Airports). This includes all Part 129 activity.
The New York FSDO is not responsible for:
•
Rotorcraft (helicopter) activity within the 5
boroughs of New York City. Rotorcraft issues
are handled by the Farmingdale FSDO.
•
Designated Pilot Examiners
•
De
signated Airworthiness Examiners
•
Inspe
ction Authorizations
•
Aviation Safety Program or FAASTeam
•
Flight Safety International based at LaGaurdia Airport



This FSDO must have a GREAT union rep...
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It's a matter of staffing.
 
N801BH said:
It would be interesting in the staffing levels at that FSDO branch...

Probably "not available" to the public though...:rolleyes:
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It's not a secret. But like most FSDO's, the staffing levels are low.

As an example, where you live, this is the staffing of the Denver FSDO (which covers Wyoming as well):

Denver FSDO Directory

The General Aviation Unit has 18 ASI's to cover this:

Denver FSDO Service Map

That's 7 Operation Inspectors, 7 Airworthiness Inspectors and 4 Avionics Inspectors for the majority of Colorado and all of Wyoming.
 
RotorAndWing said:
It's not a secret. But like most FSDO's, the staffing levels are low.

As an example, where you live, this is the staffing of the Denver FSDO (which covers Wyoming as well):

Denver FSDO Directory

The General Aviation Unit has 18 ASI's to cover this:

Denver FSDO Service Map

That's 7 Operation Inspectors, 7 Airworthiness Inspectors and 4 Avionics Inspectors for the majority of Colorado and all of Wyoming.
Click to expand...

Thanks R&W...

Can you find the staffing levels in the NY FSDO ?:dunno:
 
My medical certificate was also my student certificate. This was in 2013. I never got a separate student certificate. My CFI signed the back of my medical and signed my logbook and I was good to go.
 
It still works that way. The problem is his AME screwed up. What people meant to say is that AMEs can't issue student pilot certificates SEPARATE from the medical. So this guy has to find a DPE or a FSDO guy or someone else with a stick of Temporary Airman Certificates that can make out a student certificate for him.

Still he's been flying illegally because his CFI is too stupid to understand how endorsements are supposed to work.
 
flyingron said:
It still works that way. The problem is his AME screwed up. What people meant to say is that AMEs can't issue student pilot certificates SEPARATE from the medical. So this guy has to find a DPE or a FSDO guy or someone else with a stick of Temporary Airman Certificates that can make out a student certificate for him.

Still he's been flying illegally because his CFI is too stupid to understand how endorsements are supposed to work.
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That we all agree on...:yes:
 
flyingron said:
It still works that way. The problem is his AME screwed up. What people meant to say is that AMEs can't issue student pilot certificates SEPARATE from the medical. So this guy has to find a DPE or a FSDO guy or someone else with a stick of Temporary Airman Certificates that can make out a student certificate for him.

Still he's been flying illegally because his CFI is too stupid to understand how endorsements are supposed to work.
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I thought he said he had not soled ?
 
Kritchlow said:
I thought he said he had not soled ?
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Rosssr20 said:
Already solo and endorsement went into my logbook. Letter from FAA literally claims they sent me a student cert but the paper is clearly just a 3rd class medical. I guess I will play it safe and find a DME and ask nicely
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And I pointed out when he said that the log book endorsement is distinct from the pilot certificate endorsement. Further, without something that says "STUDENT PILOT CERTIFICATE" be it on the same paper as the medical, or on an temporary airman certificate or just on an email from the FAA in his possession he should not be alone in the aircraft. His instructor is an idiot.
 
ifly4fun said:
He said "my solo endorsement is for 90 days and i haven't used it"

Where is the concern over busting FARs and "soloing again.."
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flyingron said:
And I pointed out when he said that the log book endorsement is distinct from the pilot certificate endorsement. Further, without something that says "STUDENT PILOT CERTIFICATE" be it on the same paper as the medical, or on an temporary airman certificate or just on an email from the FAA in his possession he should not be alone in the aircraft. His instructor is an idiot.
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But, you said he's been flying illegally. He said he has not soled.
 
He didn't say anything of the sort. What IFly4Fun said was not stated literally by Ross. Maybe what he meant, but it's distinct from the quote I provided that said "Already solo and endorsement was in my logbook."

If that means he solo'd, the flight was illegal. If that means something else, then he needs to be clearer.

In any event, the statements he alleges his flight instructor to have made give me strong doubts about the instructor.

Absent an actual piece of paper that says "STUDENT PILOT" on it, he does not have one. Absent an endorsement on that piece of paper, he's not legal to fly solo.
 
flyingron said:
He didn't say anything of the sort.
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Yes he did.

rosssr20 said:
To answer a few questions this medical was from medXpress and was issued this past September. It doesn't mention student and it didn't have a second page. My solo endorsement is for 90 days and I haven't used it because I just got it and want to make sure my paperwork is in order. I'm going to call a DPE tomorrow and get the student certificate.

Will let ya'll know how it goes...

Thanks!
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Not that anyone is going to bust a student for not knowing this, especially considering the letters the OP has received from the FAA stating that it is a Student Pilot's Certificate.
 
Seems to be some controversy here so let me try to provide more detail which may or may not provide more clarity:

Before my solo I called the FAA twice and explained I had reason to believe they had not given me a student certificate. They said they would mail it. When I received their letter it explained that they had enclosed an amended medical and student pilot certificate. When I looked at what they "enclosed" it was simply the same 3rd class medical and no mention of student certificate. Since the FAA mentions that the certificate was enclosed then they must think the medical is the certificate. My CFI was confident it was sufficient to solo and applied the endorsements to my log book which I carried with me along with the letter from the FAA saying they enclosed a student certificate.

There has been a few changes in the past regarding student certificate being separate or combined with the medical and I'm willing to bet the FAA has a problem with their current process.

I will let ya'll know if the FSDO can figure it out for good.
 
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rosssr20 said:
Seems to be some controversy here so let me try to provide more detail which may or may not provide more clarity:

Before my solo I called the FAA twice and explained I had reason to believe they had not given me a student certificate. They said they would mail it. When I received their letter it explained that they had enclosed an amended medical and student pilot certificate. When I looked at what they "enclosed" it was simply the same 3rd class medical and no mention of student certificate. Since the FAA mentions that the certificate was enclosed then they must think the medical is the certificate. My CFI was confident it was sufficient to solo and applied the endorsements to my log book which I carried with me along with the letter from the FAA saying they enclosed a student certificate.

There has been a few changes in the past regarding student certificate being separate or combined with the medical and I'm willing to bet the FAA has a problem with their current process.

I will let ya'll know if the FSDO can figure it out for good.
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14 CFR Part 61.87
(n) Limitations on student pilots operating an aircraft in solo flight. A student pilot may not operate an aircraft in solo flight unless that student pilot has received:

(1) An endorsement from an authorized instructor on his or her student pilot certificate for the specific make and model aircraft to be flown; and
Click to expand...
 
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That's pretty clear. I won't solo till I get a proper certificate from the FSDO.
 
FAA mailed a new medical along with a letter saying it's a student certificate? It doesn't say anywhere on the medical something like "valid for student pilot privileges only"?

Are you expecting two pieces of paper: 1 medical and 1 student certificate?

I thought they were the same piece of paper (unless you needed a student cert and did not need a medical - like a glider student)?
 
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