Disclaimer: I keep my plane and engine spotless so that might help in the chaffing dept..
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Got my first look at the new Redhawk 172
- Thread starter Archammer
- Start date
Disclaimer: I keep my plane and engine spotless so that might help in the chaffing dept..
moonshine
Line Up and Wait
Ha, I just realized why some of you were confused about the engine! I typed Continental instead of Centurion. Yes, it is the Thielert Centurion 2.0 Liquid Cooled Turbo Diesel, and sorry for the confusion. I will modify my post.
Well then, the only thing I've got to say is...
Should have went ahead with the 2.0s STC
Flies in Europe, don't think there was ever enough interest to do it here. 155 hp vs 135 hp in 2.0 installation. With a CS and FADEC and by the nature of beign turbo'd, no perceivable performance loss as compared to the stock 180 hp -S. One of my customers had that done to the airplane I sold him - he's been flying it like that for 2.5 yrs and has been very happy with the results. Wants a diesel 182 now.
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Archammer
Cleared for Takeoff
And Frank Thielert is now in jail for that half baked ponzi scheme..
Yet the company is running full steam ahead. Which is good, because all those great engineers and employees don't have to lose their jobs, because of their previous moron boss. Yes, the Mercedes Benz corp has always been the base backer, but that engine is a Thielert because it was built by it's employees, not's it's namesake.
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Skylane81E
Final Approach
My math says 3lbs of fuel removed
N747JB
Final Approach
Dav8or
Final Approach
I guess you could tell me anything you want, it just doesn't make it so is all. This engine is only a small portion off the assembly line Mercedes. It is all manor of custom engineered equipment to make it into an airplane engine and then there is all the custom engineered gear to adapt it to an existing airframe. Lots of R&D + low production volume + FAA certification = very high retail cost. When I talked directly to the engineers at Austro engines at the AOPA Summit (they also use a Mercedes diesel as the basis) they told me their Skyhawk conversion was estimated at $80-85K. My Lycoming isn't going to cover it.
At those costs, adoption by the GA fleet in America isn't going to be very wide spread. The fuel savings just don't come close to covering it. People will get excited about these engines, then price it out, then install the same ol' Lycoming they always have. There is a case to be made in Europe, Asia and Africa, but in the states, it's a tough sell.
guardrail
Pre-takeoff checklist
I agree that until the volume picks up that the cost is going to be substaintially more than your run of the mill air cooled gasser aero, there's no way it would be the same as your used unit sold for. The overhaul cost may be similar or possibly cheaper since you could probably buy a brand new unit (read, the engine only) cheaper than an aero reman.
There is NO overhaul of the Aero diesel... It is rated for TBR.... = Time before replacement.... So,, you gotta cough up another almost 100 grand....
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guardrail
Pre-takeoff checklist
There is NO overhaul of the Aero diesel... It is rated for TBR.... = Time before replacement.... So,, you gotta cough up another almost 100 grand....
That's for the engine though correct? Not the whole apparatus, I can't think that you have to replace every single part in the conversion. I can see the long block needing replacement, but the sheetmetal, accessories, prop gear box (which would already be replaced with a coupon), etc wouldn't have to be replaced.
The jury is still out on what the grizzly details will be till motors start reaching the TBR stage.... One thing known though... You will have replaced the gear box a few times before you need a fresh motor.. Hopefully.
schmookeeg
En-Route
172F or newer?
Fs were O-300 continental powered skyhawks. I'd have expected, at a minimum, the 172I or newer with the lycoming engine... or, to match the 28V electrical system, a P or newer.
Fs were O-300 continental powered skyhawks. I'd have expected, at a minimum, the 172I or newer with the lycoming engine... or, to match the 28V electrical system, a P or newer.
acluffpoa
Pre-takeoff checklist
28v was available from 78 on so that would be the N model.
schmookeeg
En-Route
There ya go. I learned something new -- I owned a 12V "N" so I painted all of em with that brush
So, instead of "F and later", I'd expect 172I or later, or 172N (s/n whenever they went 28V) and later...
schmookeeg
En-Route
There ya go. I learned something new -- I owned a 12V "N" so I painted all of em with that brush
So, instead of "F and later", I'd expect 172I or later, or 172N (s/n whenever they went 28V) and later...
Huh... the TAE STC is F and later... curious!
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgstc.nsf/0/f91e8e02a1e09bc0862576da004fb3ef/$FILE/SA01303WI.pdf
That'd be a cool mod on an F model.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
53x6=318
45x6.7=301.5
So about 16.5 lbs less fuel.
100LL is actually 5.82 lb/gal so 53*5.82 = 308.5, about a 7-pound difference.
EDIT: And after further research, Jet-A is 6.76 lb/gal or 304.2 - So make that 4.3.
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bnt83
Final Approach
I think the F began with a longer cowl and a prop extension.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
Ha, I just realized why some of you were confused about the engine! I typed Continental instead of Centurion. Yes, it is the Thielert Centurion 2.0 Liquid Cooled Turbo Diesel, and sorry for the confusion. I will modify my post.
Typo, or are you really Nostradamus?
AvWeb said:
Just got this as a breaking news alert, and the article is dated July 23 - Tomorrow in most of the US.
dell30rb
Final Approach
Whaaaat
Ghery
Touchdown! Greaser!
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Ghery Pettit
I got the same alert. Interesting development.
iflyforfun
Pre-takeoff checklist
Conti buys Thielert ... this is a big deal. I kept waiting for someone to point out that when Thielert went out of business, the bankruptcy process in Germany forced the company to completely screw their customers. Work had to be paid in advance, lead times were very long, etc. I'm no expert and certainly don't have first hand experience, but was surprised not to see ANY comments in 4 pages of posts.
Up until the "Thielert got bought" post, I thought this was a wasted thread because no one, after doing their due diligence, would buy a new Thielert. Now, maybe Continental can put together a compelling plan.
timwinters
Ejection Handle Pulled
AvGas tanks = OWT
Jet-A = I have no idea if it's an issue or not.
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
Yeah, the humidity and temperature delta would have to be ridiculously huge in order for that to happen. It's usually caused by leaky caps that let rain in. However, in the Comanche with the bladders, it's recommended to keep the mains filled so they don't dry rot.
timwinters
Ejection Handle Pulled
As does my 182 and I try to keep the bladders full(ish) for that reason.
Doing the math on condensation:
20 gallons of air left for a month, going through daily cycles of 95*F high with 65% RH and 75*F lows will produce about 1 oz of water in that 30 days.
And that assumes the air in the tanks fluctuating as much as the air temps...which it won't if it's hangared. If it's on a ramp it could very well fluctuate more but that won't change the numbers.
That also assumes a 100% exchange of air in the tank with "fresh 100% RH 95*F air" from the outside everyday. And that ain't gonna happen either.
Archammer
Cleared for Takeoff
You will never know...
Hehe. It wasn't a typo to begin with, but I changed it because it was confusing everyone. I edited it to say Continental Theilert now, so it will make sense for everyone.
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Archammer
Cleared for Takeoff
You make an excellent point there. Let's just hope that's not the case.
N747JB
Final Approach
OK, so less fuel means about the same fuel weight, not less weight.
I have never used 5.82 lbs per gallon on 100LL, but I'll trust you.
I have always used 6.00 for 100LL and 6.7 for Jet-A, now I can carry a little more gas in the 182
and a little less in the Conquest.
Dav8or
Final Approach
I think what we should read here is-
China bought Thielert. Continental is just stuck with dealing with it.
China bought Thielert. Continental is just stuck with dealing with it.
I am having a hard time reconciling the words China and Mercedes Benz in the same sentence..