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DRzKing

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DRzKing
So i wanted to know what type of math questions do pilots get or have to solve??
 
DRzKing said:
So i wanted to know what type of math questions do pilots get or have to solve??
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Debt service + fixed cost analyses. Whether it's cheaper to pay the ramp fee at Signature or buy the required amount of fuel. Whether to buy now or wait six months for prices to go down. How much hundred-dollar hamburgers really cost when gas is $5/gal. Others just as important that I can't think of now
 
I think the question was geared more toward flight planning, etc.

The E-6B slide rule is used in both mechanical and electronic form. Here a couple web sites where calcuations can be made. If you have more specific questions, ask away.

http://www.csgnetwork.com/e6bcalc.html

http://www.weightandbalance.org/e6b.html

http://ws.cs.ubc.ca/~sanchom/wiki/index.php/Flight_Computer

http://www.asa2fly.com/files/support/E6B_Manual.pdf

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9834l.jpg
 
KennyFlys said:
I think the question was geared more toward flight planning, etc.
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Yeah, but Wayne asked the really important ones :D

DRzKing , there are a variety of mathematical relationships you'll come across. There are a variety of calculations and rules of thumb that use a basic knowledge of multiplication, division and 9th grade algebra. There are mathematical relationships more complicated than that, but those tend to utilize specialized calculators, charts and graphs.
 
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midlifeflyer said:
Yeah, but Wayne asked the really important ones :D

DRzKing , there are a variety of mathematical relationships you'll come across. There are a variety of calculations and rules of thumb that use a basic knowledge of multiplication, division and 9th grade algebra. There are mathematical relationships more complicated than that, but those tend to utilize specialized calculators, charts and graphs.
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Well, don't forget that there's a bit of geometry and even trigonometry involved too. But I don't recall ever coming across anything beyond the high school level.
 
gprellwitz said:
Well, don't forget that there's a bit of geometry and even trigonometry involved too. But I don't recall ever coming across anything beyond the high school level.
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Geometry definitely. But I dont think Ive come across trig that was not taken care of by a calculator, table or whiz wheel.
 
Rather than show me E6B calculators, I think the formulas behind them are worth more. I have 2 sporty's electronic (the handheld TI calculator and the notebook style) E6Bs. I find neither "intuitive" and are cumbersome to use.
 
Things I prefer to do in my head rather than look for a calculator:
Approximate runway cross wind component (30 deg. = 0.5, 45 deg. = ~0.7)
Celcius to Fahrenheit conversion (2C-(.1*2C)+32
Reciprical headings (+/-200 -/+20)
Cloud base height estimation (Delta T /2(Cel.) or /4 (Fahr.) (available on ASOS but it misses pretty badly sometimes)

all of which are pretty easy
 
WHy do you ask? Are you looking for stuff to work into a curriculum or is this part of something you are doing as a student?
 
Vertical descent planning. For 3* slope: (current alt-final alt)*3=horizontal distance at which you'll start your descent; (Ground Speed*10)/2, or GS*5, but the former is easier for me in my head = necessary descent rate to maintain 3* slope. This works great on an ILS or visual, too, provided you want to stay on a roughly 3* slope. That's what I use the most.

Also basic addition/subtraction/multiplication for W&B, but I usually use my fingers/phone for that.

Fuel calculations...We have 4000lbs of gas on board, we're burning 980lbs per hour per side. Our minimum fuel is 1800lbs. How long can we hold before going to our alternate that is X minutes away?
 
DRzKing said:
So i wanted to know what type of math questions do pilots get or have to solve??
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Various, but mostly the ones that you have to do "on the fly" are pretty simple Distance/ Speed* Time calculations and fuel consumed-remaining into time calculations. Those are the two that you have to just be able to do off the top of your head while in flight. The more complex calculations typically have gouges that get you close enough.
 
Don't worry about the math, you will be taught that by your instructor or ground school. Be more concerned about the dollar amount that education is going to cost you. The math is simple, you will be taught to use the tools needed to solve about all your math problems. If you just want to get started, order a mechanical E-6-B. It comes with an instruction book. The instruction book will give you samples of just about every math problem you will have.

If you can afford it, also get a Sportys electronic E-6-B. You will need one of those for your written test. The mechanical version will not give you the correct answers for your written. The electronic E-6-B is pretty worthless in a plane that is bouncing all over the place, and your dealing with flying the plane, getting your charts under control while looking out the window for other traffic. You will need the mechanical one for that.

Above all else, you should have a complete mastery of the mechanical E-6-B. Get one and practice with it as much as you can.

John
 
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I'll take a shot in the dark and guess that maybe the OP was asking b/c they are unsure if they are able to do the math - a common question for starting pilots, I would assume.

Basically, everything a pilot does can be broken down into simply add/subtract. Most of the multiplication/division can be looked up on a handy-dandy chart or on your whiz-wheel E6B. After helping teach a PP Ground School class, I have fallen in love with the whiz-wheel E6B. When I was studying for my own PP ticket, I learned just enough to get by. After 'teaching' someone else how to use it, I can see the multitude of uses it can have on a simple BATTERIES FREE package.
 
gprellwitz said:
Well, don't forget that there's a bit of geometry and even trigonometry involved too. But I don't recall ever coming across anything beyond the high school level.
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You've got to remember that some of us, like Foxworthy, refer to 8th grade as "my senior year."
 
Among my many academic achievements, I would have to say that the pinnacle for me, was the successful completion of the ninth grade. Although reaching that lofty goal has had little effect on my life and monetary accomplishments, I believe I would have done much better had I soldiered on and completed the tenth grade.

You have to bear in mind that a ninth grade education in the 1950s is the equivalent of a four year college education today. You were actually expected to be able to read and have a basic understanding of where North America was located on a globe.

They did not lower the basketball hoop for you, and they did not have much, if any, interest in your self esteem. They actually did hold students back if they did not meet the requirements of any particular grade.

Seriously, so far, I do not think a college level education in mathematics is necessary to get a pilots certificate.

John
 
DRzKing said:
So i wanted to know what type of math questions do pilots get or have to solve??
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I'm in 8th grade and do just fine with the math portion of flight. I started before 8th grade and I was fine then too.
 
I am guessing:

You're a student, and like me, you hate math. You are majoring in something that directly relates to being a pilot, and are figuring out matrices and saying "When the hell am I ever going to use this?"

Fear not, you won't. Congratulations, you're in school to prove you can stick it out, not learn anything.
 
How many are like me and have never used an E6B or its electronic equivalent (I have both) other than preparing for or taking FAA tests (or preparing students in the case of CFI's)?
 
Lance F said:
How many are like me and have never used an E6B or its electronic equivalent (I have both) other than preparing for or taking FAA tests (or preparing students in the case of CFI's)?
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I'll fess up. Why else would you own one?

Well I may have done a few wind triangles during some hellacious XW's many moons ago.
 
Lance F said:
How many are like me and have never used an E6B or its electronic equivalent (I have both) other than preparing for or taking FAA tests (or preparing students in the case of CFI's)?
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I bought and electronic E6B when I was working on my instrument. Carrying it around in my flight bag after that, but each time I wanted to use it, it had layed around unused so long the batteries were dead. Finally, about 10 years later, I sold it.
 
i use an whiz wheel all the time.i love the damn thing, although my current one is a CR-3. but im a math dork too. Glad that i converted chris though! Ive had a couple students recently with electronic E6B's, those things baffle me. first i have a hell of a time figuring out which heading to select to get it to do what i want, then you waste a bunch of time punching in numbers to get the answer. nothing beats the beauty and simplicity of a circular slide rule.
 
Lance F said:
How many are like me and have never used an E6B or its electronic equivalent (I have both) other than preparing for or taking FAA tests (or preparing students in the case of CFI's)?
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The only thing I can recall using a manual E6B for was figuring true altitude in conjunction with my mapping job. I have an electronic one that I acquired somehow but I can't recall using it and it is still sitting in a desk drawer. I should probably trash it since it's at least 20 years old. :dunno:

As far as math goes, as long as you can do arithmetic you should be fine.
 
tonycondon said:
i use an whiz wheel all the time.
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Now you've got my curiosity up. What in the world are you calculating all the time?
Maybe it's an ATP thing I don't know about (yet).:rofl::rofl:
 
Lance F said:
Now you've got my curiosity up. What in the world are you calculating all the time?
Maybe it's an ATP thing I don't know about (yet).:rofl::rofl:
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yea, i'll let you in on it once you finish :)

usually the only thing i use it for in the 421 is indicated to true airspeed calcs. it helps to have a couple of GPS's and a fuel totalizer on board, those remove the need to do time/speed/distance/fuel calcs.

when i flew the flybaby to Beaumont, KS for lunch I was making checkpoints every 10 to 15 miles and constantly updating groundspeed, along with figuring fuel burn.

with students i go through the whole thing on dual cross countries.
 
tonycondon said:
usually the only thing i use it for in the 421 is indicated to true airspeed calcs. it helps to have a couple of GPS's and a fuel totalizer on board, those remove the need to do time/speed/distance/fuel calcs.
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But the GPS (430/530 anyway) will also calculate TAS for you and give winds aloft at the same time.
 
we've got a 480. it can probably do it. but by the time i find all the right buttons, i bet i can do it faster :)
 
I usually punch it up on the 496. I'm sure the 430 will do it, but I've never played with that.
 
Heck, I just twiddle the dial on the airspeed indicator on most late model Cessnas. Set the temp and pressure altitude, and the thing reads TAS for you. Okay, it might be off a knot or two because you're using indicated, not calibrated, but with all the other inaccuracies, that doesn't worry me too much. http://www.aandmaviation.com/images/7111W_panel2.JPG
 
I just wanted to know because i'm thinking about becoming a pilot and i'm not that good in math, hehe. I was when i was in 9th and 10th grade but not anymore but i know i can learn it. And also people were scaring me a little saying that i wouldn't do very good because of the math so i just wanted to know that, thanks everyone!!!
 
No problem. And the trig I mentioned was more to understand the concepts and why we use certain shortcuts, not that we actually have to do the calculations. You certainly don't have to have graduated high school to understand the things; just that's where they're normally "taught," at least when I was in school.
 
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