Good Use of Prisoners: Airport Maintenance

ARFlyer

ARFlyer

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ARFlyer
I was at the airport yesterday working with by IFR student and saw something that I hadn't seen before. The local county jail had their prisoners out with push mowers and weed-eaters trimming the grass. Normally, the city does the job with their brush hogs with idiot workers that love playing chicken with us.

The deputies sat in their trucks all day watching them but often just let the prisoners do their own thing. I mean where are they going to go, their inside a fenced airport with half of it sitting in a gator infested swamp. The prisoners actually did a better job then the city workers and had more sense when working around the aircraft. The airport looked well groomed by the end of the day. I give a thumbs up to the county for prisoner community service. Nothing better then letting them repay their debt by doing public work.
 
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If cities/counties utilized this kind of labor more often just imagine how much could be accomplished for next to nothing!
 
pikespeakmtnman said:
If cities/counties utilized this kind of labor more often just imagine how much could be accomplished for next to nothing!
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The county I grew up in historically used their prisoners to clean up the trash and mow along the county roads. However, the county had to stop a few years ago after someone complained about using prisoners as free labor.
 
They do that at the Waycross /Ware County airport in Georgia.
 
Shawn said:
Probably the city maintenance worker's union...
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Or the landscaping companies that got cut out of the county contracts. Between the guards ,the inefficiency of hauling workers back and forth from the jail and extra staff time to process them in and out every day, inmate labor is anything but cheap. If the county competes with or displaces private enterprise, there is no economic benefit. It is good for the jail as it gives the warden something to work with as incentive.
 
On Eglin and Maxwell AFBs they use federal prisoners to do this. These are the "soft crime" prisoners and these prisons are called "country club prisons". I think John Mitchell (Watergate) spent time at Maxwell. Hell they even allow them to take night college classes w/ the rest of the population on base.
 
I think we need to extend this to anyone who is on government assistance. I don't understand why we pay people to do nothing. Why do I ever see a piece of trash on the highway or at a park when there are people being paid to sit home and do nothing?
 
DFH65 said:
I think we need to extend this to anyone who is on government assistance. I don't understand why we pay people to do nothing. Why do I ever see a piece of trash on the highway or at a park when there are people being paid to sit home and do nothing?
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Agree!
 
DFH65 said:
I think we need to extend this to anyone who is on government assistance. I don't understand why we pay people to do nothing.
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I suspect the largest percentage of government assistance goes to women to raise their children.
 
steingar said:
I suspect the largest percentage of government assistance goes to women to raise their children.
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Yep that's why they have so many kids, usually w/ different fathers. More kids, more money. They also abuse that SS program for slow children. They take advantage of every government program that they can. Why work when it's handed to them. Sad state of affairs.
 
ARFlyer said:
I was at the airport yesterday working with by IFR student and saw something that I hadn't seen before. The local county jail had their prisoners out with push mowers and weed-eaters trimming the grass.
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I may not be up to speed on the current status of this program as I'been retired for some time. Arkansas moves (moved) state prisoners back to local jails near their homes as their term neared its end. They got more pre-release family interface and I think there was a week-end release component. We used them at our airport several times, more for reclaiming overgrown areas than for regular maintenance. It was very useful for the airport. The youthful offender community service program not so much. Some worked out well and loved working at the airport. Others, I sent back because they were more of a burden than a benefit due to the amount of supervision they required.
 
steingar said:
I suspect the largest percentage of government assistance goes to women to raise their children.
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Depends on what you consider 'government assistance', but the bulk of it goes to dual eligible retirees and nursing home occupants.
 
Able bodied people who are able to work should. One person can watch a bunch of kids. So pay some to watch kids while the others work.
 
steingar said:
Been in the market for child care lately?
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You didn't read what I said. Pay some of them to watch while the other work. The confusion may be in the word pay. Some of them will get their government handout based on watching kids and some will get it based on other tasks performed.
 
DFH65 said:
I think we need to extend this to anyone who is on government assistance. I don't understand why we pay people to do nothing. Why do I ever see a piece of trash on the highway or at a park when there are people being paid to sit home and do nothing?
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And add mandatory drug testing to that!!
 
Actually at least where it has been tried mandatory drug testing hasn't really had the expected result. I am OK with it as many people who are working for the government in one way or the other are in a testing program. I think we just need to be realistic we can't afford to have people not working and not paying taxes. Our infrastructure is falling apart. I am a conservative leaning minarchist libertarian (say that 10 times fast) It pains me to say this but we are in a predicament maybe we need to bring back the CCC.
 
DFH65 said:
You didn't read what I said. Pay some of them to watch while the other work. The confusion may be in the word pay. Some of them will get their government handout based on watching kids and some will get it based on other tasks performed.
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I heard you, truly I did. This is a fairly obvious way to employ oneself, yet everyone I've ever talked to about it said that child care was hard to get an enormously expensive. My guess is that there is more to it than you suspect. Training and licensing requirements come quickly to mind.
 
They also do this at KAHN (Athens, GA). The guy shows up on time, does his work, is courteous and offers a wave when I pass by, and goes back to the facility at night.

I think it's a great use for these guys. I've never had a problem with them. It's only one guy and the facility is right outside of the airport fence. As far as I know, there is no one there to watch over him at all. I don't think there is much in terms of cost for this guy to do his work.
 
Check out the beautiful terminal building at KRFI, built entirely by inmates at the county jail. If those guys wanted to go straight .................. damn
 
ARFlyer said:
I mean where are they going to go, their inside a fenced airport with half of it sitting in a gator infested swamp.
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Um...have we thought this through? Wouldn't it be a golden opportunity with outside help....hop in a plane just before takeoff?


Heh...

Also, County jail is before trial isn't it? Which means people that have not been tried, may be innocent, and may need time to work on their defense. I'm not sure why they ought to be working for their keep?
 
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LongRoadBob said:
Also, County jail is before trial isn't it? Which means people that have not been tried, may be innocent, and may need time to work on their defense. I'm not sure why they ought to be working for their keep?
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All Arkansas work program prisoners have been tried and convicted and have to be within 30 months of their release date as well as other eligibility restrictions.
 
Graueradler said:
All Arkansas work program prisoners have been tried and convicted and have to be within 30 months of their release date as well as other eligibility restrictions.
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Ah...ok. It used to be that county jails (as far as I knew) were while awaiting trial. Still, traditionally (I'm old) back in the day the problem was one of unfair competition. If you owned a landscaping or maintenance company I think you might be a little irritated that you are getting unfair competition that can cut prices to next to nothing, taking jobs from you. That was at least historically one of the problems with prison labor in the past.
 
LongRoadBob said:
Ah...ok. It used to be that county jails (as far as I knew) were while awaiting trial. Still, traditionally (I'm old) back in the day the problem was one of unfair competition. If you owned a landscaping or maintenance company I think you might be a little irritated that you are getting unfair competition that can cut prices to next to nothing, taking jobs from you. That was at least historically one of the problems with prison labor in the past.
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I don't consider highway/street right-of-ways and municipal grounds to be exempt from competition. If the county jail can provide the equipment/workers for cheaper than a private company can do it, so be it. The government is wasteful enough with funds without having to provide a completely equitable bidding process on mowing the side of a hill by an expressway.
 
LongRoadBob said:
I'm not sure why they ought to be working for their keep?
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I don't think it's a chain gang. Pretty sure they volunteer to get out of the jail for awhile.
Chain-Gang-2.jpg
 
The GA county that I live in uses prisoners for the roads, the animal shelter, and more, I think it is a great idea to let these prisoners, male and female, do something constructive, instead of sitting in a cell all day, kinda funny, the first time that I saw a guy in an orange jumpsuit with prisoner on the back buying paint at H-D, he was alone and got in a truck and off he went to paint I guess.

I still can not figure the difference between the inmates with orange jump suits and the ones wearing black and white jumps suits.
 
strangebird said:
I still can not figure the difference between the inmates with orange jump suits and the ones wearing black and white jumps suits.
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Fashion ;)

When I dealt with the prison system, different colors indicated different risk classification. Blue jumpsuit may show up with only one guard to two or three inmates, orange had two guards per one inmate etc.
 
LongRoadBob said:
Still, traditionally (I'm old) back in the day the problem was one of unfair competition. If you owned a landscaping or maintenance company I think you might be a little irritated that you are getting unfair competition that can cut prices to next to nothing, taking jobs from you. That was at least historically one of the problems with prison labor in the past.
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Traditionally the problem with county inmate labor was that sheriff's were corrupt and profited off the labor they would sell to outside parties. This would also give them incentive to imprison able bodied men on petty charges like 'loitering' to maintain the size of their rental workforce. But that doesn't happen anymore....
 
Isn't that Sheriff Joe Apraio in AZ that does that w/ the pink jump suits?
 
N5922S said:
Check out the beautiful terminal building at KRFI, built entirely by inmates at the county jail. If those guys wanted to go straight .................. damn
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Our, AR, capitol was built by prisoners inside of the state jail. The state built the prison around the site so the prisoners could live and work without having to be transported off-site.

strangebird said:
The GA county that I live in uses prisoners for the roads, the animal shelter, and more, I think it is a great idea to let these prisoners, male and female, do something constructive, instead of sitting in a cell all day, kinda funny, the first time that I saw a guy in an orange jumpsuit with prisoner on the back buying paint at H-D, he was alone and got in a truck and off he went to paint I guess.

I still can not figure the difference between the inmates with orange jump suits and the ones wearing black and white jumps suits.
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Typically I've noticed that prisoners used for road side maintenance/trash pickup were part of a chain gang, while prisoners used for projects were free to roam and come and go. So I'm guessing it's based upon their level of danger to the public and flee risk. The local jail also uses their prisoners to upkeep the patrol vehicles. I've seen them doing everything from washing the vehicles to doing basic maintenance. Like @Lowflynjack said, I would wager these guys are asked if they wish to do these jobs. I'd bet they rather be out in the fresh air then inside a cell all day everyday.

weilke said:
Fashion ;)

When I dealt with the prison system, different colors indicated different risk classification. Blue jumpsuit may show up with only one guard to two or three inmates, orange had two guards per one inmate etc.
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I wonder if that is a state dependent thing,since I've only ever seen orange jumpsuits working in public.
 
steingar said:
I suspect the largest percentage of government assistance goes to women to raise their children.
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Yup. This. Add in people that are physically or mentally incapable of working and you've got the *vast* majority of the long term expenses.
 
weilke said:
Traditionally the problem with county inmate labor was that sheriff's were corrupt and profited off the labor they would sell to outside parties. This would also give them incentive to imprison able bodied men on petty charges like 'loitering' to maintain the size of their rental workforce. But that doesn't happen anymore....
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Yup. And using such labor is a dangerous incentive to the government to jail more people.

See also: the corporate prison system and their ability to lobby for tougher sentencing laws.
 
steingar said:
I suspect the largest percentage of government assistance goes to women to raise their children.
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Kids can work. I was cutting lawns at 11 or 12. ;)

Meanwhile back at the ranch...

Colorado is home to a number of large businesses using prisoner labor. They pay slave wages but the prisoners love the meager cash, and the companies have put a number of regular businesses under. Hard to compete with slave labor.

The largest supplier of farmed fish to Whole Paycheck... Cough, excuse me... Whole Foods... Was a Canon City based prisoner run fish farm. The owner of the last holdout supplier that had non-prisoner labor and no tax breaks and what not, gave up and closed up shop many years ago.

I'm surprised Whole Paycheck doesn't add on some nice cash register / checkout charity shaming like this, "Would you like to give a dollar so a prisoner can have a job raising fish?" And then use that to pay for even more of their fresh fish production costs, that they're selling well above market price.

Gotta love the whole wholesome prisoner slave trade thing. The companies are privately held and not required to publish their profits nor what their execs get paid.

Awesome gig if you bought the right State politicians to win the contracts by manipulation of the requirements.

BIG money putting the drug war casualties to work for $1.50/day. The perfect "company store".
 
About 75% of them seemed to be really glad to do their community service and get it over with. The rest seemed to be intent on telling me things like "the court doesn't count hours, all that matters is that they showed up that day - 15 mins, an hour, doesn't matter".

And that we put our operating hours on the line that shows how many hours they worked. Lol.
 
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