Golf on the decline. Doesn't look good for the future

nddons said:
I used to belong to the Rock Island Arsenal Golf Club on the Arsenal Island on the Mississippi River.
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While playing, did you hear the recording of "taps" that play constantly over a loudspeaker at the nearby civil war cemetery?
 
RalphInCA said:
I didn't read all the posts, but are there any airport / golf course combinations?
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yes, there are a number of rural clubs that have a fairway doubling as a runway. Laurens iowa springs to mind although i don't think there are any planes there anymore.
 
RalphInCA said:
I didn't read all the posts, but are there any airport / golf course combinations?
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Maddens on the lake is a resort with golf-course near Brainerd,MN. It is right next to 9Y2 East Gull Lake Airport, a nice public grass-strip. I am pretty sure they send a cart if you ask.

Voyager Village country club is an our or so north of the Twin Cities on the WI side of the border. They have 9WN2 right on the golf-course. It is not listed on the clubs website anymore, don't know what that means.
 
RalphInCA said:
I didn't read all the posts, but are there any airport / golf course combinations?
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KPRC(Prescott, Az.) has two public 18 hole courses, one that borders the airport fence, the second one about 3-400 yards from the fence.
 
After years of playing golf twice a week, I learned to fly.

I golfed once more, after soloing, and then never again. When I realized that if it was nice enough to golf, it was nice enough to fly, that was the end.

That's one problem with flying. It makes everything else boring. :)
 
Y'all talk like Golf is an American industry, it's not, it's a global industry and Golf is the same as GA.
 
I think it is a generational thing. A lot of the people In their 20s and early 30s want activities that are fast pace, electronic, indoors, and not too long. They probably don't get cell service on most courses so thy can't check Facebook every 5 minutes.
 
TommyG said:
I think it is a generational thing. A lot of the people In their 20s and early 30s want activities that are fast pace, electronic, indoors, and not too long. They probably don't get cell service on most courses so thy can't check Facebook every 5 minutes.
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I've never played a course yet that didn't have cell service. There are dozens of apps out there for use while you are on the course.
 
TommyG said:
I think it is a generational thing. A lot of the people In their 20s and early 30s want activities that are fast pace, electronic, indoors, and not too long. They probably don't get cell service on most courses so thy can't check Facebook every 5 minutes.
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Tell us about the good 'ol days, Grampa. Something about not having cell phones and making the colored boy hold your golf clubs. Yeah, that's when times were good. :rolleyes2:
 
My home club is the home course of a major University golf team. Both the men's and women's teams are stacked with talented young players. And they're smart, polite, personable kids. Watching them I'd say golf is in good hands. And if that's not enough? Go walk around a AJGA junior event sometime. Junior high and high school kids shooting sub-par tournament scores from the back tees. The parents can be annoying but the kids are fun to be around. You guys who think golf's in decline need to get out more and find some venues that have energy. They're out there.
 
Stewartb said:
My home club is the home course of a major University golf team. Both the men's and women's teams are stacked with talented young players. And they're smart, polite, personable kids. Watching them I'd say golf is in good hands. And if that's not enough? Go walk around a AJGA junior event sometime. Junior high and high school kids shooting sub-par tournament scores from the back tees. The parents can be annoying but the kids are fun to be around. You guys who think golf's in decline need to get out more and find some venues that have energy. They're out there.
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No offense, but the entire industry is in decline. It's not just personal perception, it's a fact. In the past decade or so, more golf courses are closed down than are opened. Equipment sales are down, number of people playing is down. It doesn't mean that it isn't a fun sport or that there aren't good people playing it. There are just fewer people doing it.
 
Fewer pretenders trying it. I was a player before, during, and after the boom. Golf is doing fine. It just saw an unsustainable growth spurt and is experiencing a correction. No big deal.
 
Stewartb said:
Fewer pretenders trying it. I was a player before, during, and after the boom. Golf is doing fine. It just saw an unsustainable growth spurt and is experiencing a correction. No big deal.
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According to this

http://www.golf2020.com/media/31624/2011_golf_econ_exec_sum_sri_final_12_17_12.pdf

report, the core golf operations business has been growing throughout. Where golf as an industry in the US has cut back sharply is the real-estate end of the deal (selling lots/homes on residential courses) and investment into new courses.
 
JHW said:
Same for us. The wealthiest guy I know at our club in Illinois is a dentist who has the contract for the local AAA hockey team.
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My dentist is the dentist for many of the Washington Capitals. He used to have pictures of hockey players in the office and I'd seen him acknowledged on the screens at the arena.
 
NoHeat said:
While playing, did you hear the recording of "taps" that play constantly over a loudspeaker at the nearby civil war cemetery?
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Yes! There is a National Cemetery as well as a Confederate Cemetery. If I recall, about 12,000 Confederate prisoners were held there.

Whenever they played "Taps," "To the Color" or "Retreat", play stops, hats are removed by civilians, and turn to face the flag or the direction of the flag. It was an awesome place to be. They still make Howitzers there, though they are probably only using 15% of the world class manufacturing capabilities in the Island.
 
nddons said:
Yes! There is a National Cemetery as well as a Confederate Cemetery. If I recall, about 12,000 Confederate prisoners were held there.

Whenever they played "Taps," "To the Color" or "Retreat", play stops, hats are removed by civilians, and turn to face the flag or the direction of the flag. It was an awesome place to be. They still make Howitzers there, though they are probably only using 15% of the world class manufacturing capabilities in the Island.
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I'd bet less than that.

We toured the arsenal when the kids were little. We flew in to DVN and spent the day. It's like stepping back in time. Truly worth seeing!
 
FWIW, my neighborhood was developed in the mid 70s around a golf course. In the 90s, a newer, schmantzier golf course came with the newer, schmantzier neighborhood adjacent to mine.

Our course changed from a club to a daily fees course. 10 years later, it was sold. The new management ran it for a year, then closed it and decided to try to sell it for development. As the largest undeveloped parcel in what had become a built-out suburb, the land was attractive.

Deed restrictions prevented a sale to developers, but the land is now part of a flood control project and will never be a golf course again.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Tell us about the good 'ol days, Grampa. Something about not having cell phones and making the colored boy hold your golf clubs. Yeah, that's when times were good. :rolleyes2:
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And if there weren't less people playing golf, where do you think the players come from The younger generation. It is quite obvious millennial's have less interest in activities that have been popular for years. It's too slow for them. They want instant results, not 2 hours later.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/millennials-are-staying-away-from-golf-in-droves-2014-07-24

Been out to a bar lately? I go, I see 4 or 5 people no longer engaging in conversation, but looking at there phones. So if you want to take my comment about them not having cell phones on the course literal or not, point is find me a 20 year old that can go 5 minutes that isn't checking their phone or updating facebook status.
 
TommyG said:
And if there weren't less people playing golf, where do you think the players come from The younger generation. It is quite obvious millennial's have less interest in activities that have been popular for years. It's too slow for them. They want instant results, not 2 hours later.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/millennials-are-staying-away-from-golf-in-droves-2014-07-24

Been out to a bar lately? I go, I see 4 or 5 people no longer engaging in conversation, but looking at there phones. So if you want to take my comment about them not having cell phones on the course literal or not, point is find me a 20 year old that can go 5 minutes that isn't checking their phone or updating facebook status.
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It's not that they don't want to commit time, they don't have the extra time to commit that golf requires. There is no longer a 40hr work week and loads of spare time. Plus there are other, more productive things to be doing with time when accumulating money is the primary purpose for being alive. The fact that the costs of survival are rising (isolated from the inflation or consumer cost indexes) and remuneration for time spent fulfilling the desires of others has been stagnant or gone down.

They just don't have the time for golf under the set of values we demand be lived by to be "successfull". Back when you had to play golf to be 'successful' golf thrived. Society has moved on. You no longer need the golf course, now we exploit the same relationships through other means.

BTW, I do know middle class people who wrote off all their golf costs under professional costs clauses.
 
Let's face it, golf is boring. Always has been. In the past, people were more willing to put up with boring things. Now a days, not so much.:(
 
RalphInCA said:
Let's face it, golf is boring. Always has been. In the past, people were more willing to put up with boring things. Now a days, not so much.:(
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The game is only as boring as the people playing it. I don't find it boring, in fact I barely pay attention to it. What you need is better golf buddies.;)
 
Henning said:
The game is only as boring as the people playing it. I don't find it boring, in fact I barely pay attention to it. What you need is better golf buddies.;)
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Not only that, it is a good excuse to get away from the wife for a few hours.
 
Jay Honeck said:
After years of playing golf twice a week, I learned to fly.

I golfed once more, after soloing, and then never again. When I realized that if it was nice enough to golf, it was nice enough to fly, that was the end.

That's one problem with flying. It makes everything else boring. :)
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You should try racing motorcycles.... :yesnod:
 
Stewartb said:
Fewer pretenders trying it. I was a player before, during, and after the boom. Golf is doing fine. It just saw an unsustainable growth spurt and is experiencing a correction. No big deal.
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Interesting thread, especially the posts from the folks who neither enjoy golf nor really know much about it. I'd have to agree with the quoted post. I'm still fairly young at 32, but I've played fairly regularly since I was 12 or so. Seems like there was 10 years or so when everybody and their dog started playing at golf. It has really subsided in the last few years, but the same ones who were playing before are playing now, and I see at least as many young people playing as I ever have. It's just the once in a while golfers that have quit showing up. I think golf is up and down, but I don't see it going the way of the bowling alley or skating rink. It will endure.

Frankly, I'll be glad when the boom finally subsides enough that green fees come back down to a reasonable level. Green fees started getting ridiculous starting in the early 2000s when everybody and their dog started trying to play. One round of golf now costs about the same as my monthly membership fee was 10 years ago.
 
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My kid is a dead-shot golfer. She makes it look easy, and regularly beat her roommate who was on a golf scholarship. The golf team tried to recruit her away from her sport she is that good. She barely plays anymore. Much prefers soccer or ultimate frisbee. I think she's the demographic that golf wanted to recruit for long term expansion, but most of her friends who are good athletes want nothing to do with it. They might play once a year, or twice a year if they go to a resort, but don't make a regular golfer which is what the sport needs to survive. Old guys like me in polyester shirts and cheap cigars are not the future.
 
docmirror said:
My kid is a dead-shot golfer. She makes it look easy, and regularly beat her roommate who was on a golf scholarship. The golf team tried to recruit her away from her sport she is that good. She barely plays anymore. Much prefers soccer or ultimate frisbee. I think she's the demographic that golf wanted to recruit for long term expansion, but most of her friends who are good athletes want nothing to do with it. They might play once a year, or twice a year if they go to a resort, but don't make a regular golfer which is what the sport needs to survive. Old guys like me in polyester shirts and cheap cigars are not the future.
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my 9-year old is like that. She can outplay many adults. But she hates it, she says "dad, you promised after 3 holes we'd stop messing with this golf stuff and catch some fish". Here's a picture of her ideal day on the golf course. This pond isn't in the field of play, it's the big one from which they they draw irrigation water for the course.
 

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docmirror said:
My kid is a dead-shot golfer. She makes it look easy, and regularly beat her roommate who was on a golf scholarship. The golf team tried to recruit her away from her sport she is that good. She barely plays anymore. Much prefers soccer or ultimate frisbee. I think she's the demographic that golf wanted to recruit for long term expansion, but most of her friends who are good athletes want nothing to do with it. They might play once a year, or twice a year if they go to a resort, but don't make a regular golfer which is what the sport needs to survive. Old guys like me in polyester shirts and cheap cigars are not the future.
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Golf isn't a sport. Its a game. You need to be an athlete to play soccer. Golf, not so much.
 
UngaWunga said:
Golf isn't a sport. Its a game. You need to be an athlete to play soccer. Golf, not so much.
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Agree to disagree on this one a bit. Walk an 18-hole course while carrying your clubs and you'll feel it. I play a one soccer game every week and can say that while it requires more cardiovascular stamina, walking for 3 hours while carrying a bag of equipment can be just as taxing by the time you're done. Same goes for baseball (which I also play one game a week). There's not a ton of constant movement, but after a 7/8-inning game I usually get a pretty good workout.
 
colojo said:
I was told long ago that if you can drink beer while you're doing it it's a game; otherwise it's a sport. :wink2:
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I was on the lift at Sunshine up in Banff one year, and this guy hops on with a beer(Canada, eh) behind me. The lift op stops the chairs, and everyone starts booing, and shouting at him. He tells the guy with the beer 'drink it before you get to the top, and don't toss the can'. We all start up again and the guy drinks the beer. The lift op at the top pulled him aside for a little chat. Now, I have never seen anyone actually going down the hill with a beer in hand, but I'm sure it's happened. :yesnod:
 
colojo said:
I was told long ago that if you can drink beer while you're doing it it's a game; otherwise it's a sport. :wink2:
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Somewhere on the Internet I saw a video of a guy pouring a drink while doing acro. I guess that would make acro a game. :rolleyes2:
 
docmirror said:
I was on the lift at Sunshine up in Banff one year, and this guy hops on with a beer(Canada, eh) behind me. The lift op stops the chairs, and everyone starts booing, and shouting at him. He tells the guy with the beer 'drink it before you get to the top, and don't toss the can'. We all start up again and the guy drinks the beer. The lift op at the top pulled him aside for a little chat. Now, I have never seen anyone actually going down the hill with a beer in hand, but I'm sure it's happened. :yesnod:
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In italy they have a bar in the lift station at the top, a bar at the bottom and a ski-in schnaps bar 1/2 way down the slope. Gotta stay warm.
 
docmirror said:
I was on the lift at Sunshine up in Banff one year, and this guy hops on with a beer(Canada, eh) behind me. The lift op stops the chairs, and everyone starts booing, and shouting at him. He tells the guy with the beer 'drink it before you get to the top, and don't toss the can'. We all start up again and the guy drinks the beer. The lift op at the top pulled him aside for a little chat. Now, I have never seen anyone actually going down the hill with a beer in hand, but I'm sure it's happened. :yesnod:
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I did it a few weeks ago! And flasks for the ride up.
 
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