Golf on the decline. Doesn't look good for the future

eman1200 said:
I'm IN, when's our teetime?
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At Sheppard AFB I worked as a course marshal for a while on a part time gig. During the course of the day we collect lost balls, and at the end of the day after closing we'd grab carts and a 7 iron and play polo golf. On any given day, there would be four of you, so we team driver and striker and switch at the turn. You had to keep moving, if you missed you had to circle back. Ball on the green was good, any ball in trees gets a drop.

It's pretty fun really, and if someone can arrange a tournament, I'll be there.
 
docmirror said:
Interesting for a guy who eschews fashion attire, you have three brand name products on. I'm wearing a no-name collared shirt with a sweater I picked up at Goodwill and some khaki pants from Target. Going to breakfast with the Porsche club. I'll be dressed similar to others. If I see anyone in a Hugo Boss jacket with crest - I'll let you know. ;)
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If wearing a collared shirt is high fashion, I'm going to rethink my desire to move south. Either that or take up the banjo.
 
vintage cessna said:
Gotta love it. But hey, at least they are walking, playing the game as it was meant to be played. I was listening to some Doc's on C-Span say that diabetes is going to bankrupt the country. The golf cart is a reflection of the society we have become.
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Diabetes maintains a good part of the medical industry, one of the biggest areas of growth in the past 25 years. Eliminating diabetes would be terrible economic policy ;).

Cutting back on smoking was a big mistake. It kills quickly and cheaply just at the right spot, early in retirement.
 
paflyer said:
How do you figure that, unless you're speaking of Dear Leader's "passion"?
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Some jurisdictions give tax breaks to courses for maintaining "open space" or habitat and wetland preservation. Ever hit your ball in an area on course property designated as a hazard and were prohibited from even entering the area to look for the ball?
 
vintage cessna said:
Some jurisdictions give tax breaks to courses for maintaining "open space" or habitat and wetland preservation. Ever hit your ball in an area on course property designated as a hazard and were prohibited from even entering the area to look for the ball?
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I'd bet that it's a very small percentage in very few states. None around here certainly. Missouri couldn't care less about anything environmental.
 
I used to belong to the Rock Island Arsenal Golf Club on the Arsenal Island on the Mississippi River. You can get fairly good when you play the same course on a regular basis.

Then I moved to Charlotte, started flying, and now play no more than twice a year. And when I'm on a course, whenever I hear a plane overhead, I can't stop wishing I was up there vs on the course.
 
vintage cessna said:
You can actually stay somewhat fit if you play golf and walk. A noted sports Doctor once wrote that walking 18 holes and carrying your clubs was the equivalent of a 10 mile jog.
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After back and neck surgery, I don't carry anymore.:nono:
 
nddons said:
I used to belong to the Rock Island Arsenal Golf Club on the Arsenal Island on the Mississippi River. You can get fairly good when you play the same course on a regular basis.

Then I moved to Charlotte, started flying, and now play no more than twice a year. And when I'm on a course, whenever I hear a plane overhead, I can't stop wishing I was up there vs on the course.
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Yup... I get that feeling too.....
 
timwinters said:
I'd bet that it's a very small percentage in very few states. None around here certainly. Missouri couldn't care less about anything environmental.
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Not in those regards, but I bet if you had one of those golf course neighborhoods that was broke, Missouri has a program that pays to turn it into wild/wetland. Since it's highly subsidized by the Feds, it exists in every state I've seen.
 
It is if you hit the ball as often as I do!! :D

vintage cessna said:
You can actually stay somewhat fit if you play golf and walk. A noted sports Doctor once wrote that walking 18 holes and carrying your clubs was the equivalent of a 10 mile jog.
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Henning said:
Because most golf is written off of taxes.
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Uh, right....

BTW, I would expect that those "writing it off" are the ones paying the bulk of the income tax revenues.
 
paflyer said:
Uh, right....

BTW, I would expect that those "writing it off" are the ones paying the bulk of the income tax revenues.
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Not really. The bulk of golf isn't middle class people playing a game. Most all the owners I play with expense all their golf to their business so they don't even pay directly. The company writes it off.
 
Henning said:
Not really. The bulk of golf isn't middle class people playing a game. Most all the owners I play with expense all their golf to their business so they don't even pay directly. The company writes it off.
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And the company has 0 employees and 0 tax liability? Not even payroll taxes? Riiiiiiight.
 
EdFred said:
Eh, can't get on the course here after work because all of them are filled with leagues, and on the weekend it's stupid slow because you're always behind some idiot that takes 5 minutes to hit a 75 yard worm burner from 300 yards out. Then he takes another 5 minutes to hit that shot, you guessed it, 75 yards. Then takes another 5 minutes...Oh, and he's with 3 other guys that do the same thing, and they all follow the rules of furthest away hits.

My brother and I, in a cart, 18 holes we finished in under 2.5 hours when we had no one in front of us - and that's probably the longest course around here with TWO 600yd+ holes. My buddy and I, walking, played 9 in a shade over an hour. Of course it helped we both shot 37, and weren't looking for balls in the woods.
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And I've considered learning how to play numerous times and realized I'd be annoying the crap out of guys like Ed, which is a significant enough reason for me to say, "Why bother?"

I'd just be in Ed's way.

Clip4 said:
The new demographic is over worked and under paid. They have neither the time or money for golf, flying, scuba, hunting or a bunch of other activities that are on the decline.
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It's mainly the time. Golf as someone pointed out, is still an approved reason to leave the office for some job titles. IT manager, only if you're sucking up to an exec who likes golf. The U.S. is still in love with the two week vacation benefit (or none) to have any of the younger crowd out playing anytime other than a weekend.

Because you know, another procedure meeting will fix it all... And you definitely wouldn't want anyone disappearing for a month... You might have to staff with depth enough for two people to be out. And out of cell phone range. As in, it's turned off. Don't even try to call me.

Anthony said:
Tiger Woods on the decline isn't helping golf's decline.
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Golf was definitely more fun as a
spectator sport when his wife was using his clubs to beat the hell out of his SUV! :)
 
Henning said:
Not really. The bulk of golf isn't middle class people playing a game. Most all the owners I play with expense all their golf to their business so they don't even pay directly. The company writes it off.
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Actually, the bulk of golf IS middle class people playing a game and paying their own way. You are looking at a small sliver of the business that you happen to see and generalize it to the rest.
 
Don't really play. I have some cheap clubs and have played with my sons since it givers us some time together. We do have a nice par 3 course near by that I have played on Sundays cause I can just go there and get some exercise walking to the course.

I don't find regular courses to be that much fun as you race from shot to shot to hit the ball and hope the course nazi doesn't come by and tell you to pick up the pace.
 
vintage cessna said:
Some jurisdictions give tax breaks to courses for maintaining "open space" or habitat and wetland preservation. Ever hit your ball in an area on course property designated as a hazard and were prohibited from even entering the area to look for the ball?
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Of course, that's a scam because golf course maintenance is so environmentally toxic that it certainly isn't likely contributing positively to any habitat.
 
docmirror said:
Interesting for a guy who eschews fashion attire, you have three brand name products on. I'm wearing a no-name collared shirt with a sweater I picked up at Goodwill and some khaki pants from Target. Going to breakfast with the Porsche club. I'll be dressed similar to others. If I see anyone in a Hugo Boss jacket with crest - I'll let you know. ;)
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Eschews fashin attire? I just hate wearing collars, be it Prada or Goodwill. I don't own a collared shirt except for dress shirts for work. No pink Izod in my closet.
 
denverpilot said:
And I've considered learning how to play numerous times and realized I'd be annoying the crap out of guys like Ed, which is a significant enough reason for me to say, "Why bother?"

I'd just be in Ed's way.
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You can play horrible, and still play fast. No one needs 5 minutes to line up *any* shot. Before I get to the ball, 90% of the time I already know which club I'm hitting next. Then it's align body, 2-3 practice swings, and let 'er fly. The other issue with people is 2 guys in a cart, approximately the same distance from the hole, but one on the left side of the fairway one on the right. Left idiot drives cart to his ball, while right idiot sits in the cart and does nothing but watch. Left idiot *finally* hits his shot, it may be good, it may be crap. Then left idiot wipes off his club, puts it in the cart, and then drives over to right idiot's ball. Repeat process for right idiot. Repeat entire process until both balls have finally made it onto the green. Then they spend 5 minutes lining up a 25' putt. Hey geniuses, even the pros rarely make 25 foot putts, and the only reason they are is because they are playing for thousands of dollar. Get it close, take your two putt like you were going to end up with anyway and get your ass to the next tee box.

The way I make sure to keep things moving: Drive to ball furthest from the hole. Person making shot from there pulls 2-3 clubs out of their bag, and the other person takes the cart to their ball. The first guy hits his shot, and starts walking toward his ball. Person number two hits shot while person number one is walking, and starts driving to meet them after shot is taken. You can shave an hour off the game just by doing that. There are holes where even though I have a cart, I will end up walking half the hole. I actually prefer to walk the course, but hate carrying the bag.

Also: Wipe your clubs down, and figure out your score on the next tee box, not while still on the fairway/green.
 
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docmirror said:
As always, you are the exception to the rest of the world.

"That drop-off has hit America's greens and links hard. More golf courses closed than opened in 2013 for the eighth straight year, according to the National Golf Foundation. And the number of course closures has sped up, averaging 137 closings every year since 2011, data from golf-industry researcher Pellucid show."
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Around here, golf courses popped up everywhere for a while, without sufficient golfers to keep them profitable, then the state wtaer management people decided to play favorites with who got to water and who didn't, then the economy cratered, and got worse, and with all the foreclosures from the housing bubble bust, golf wasn't first on everyone;s mind.
 
Speed golf is one of the main reasons I don't like to play on a weekend at a public course. I just know that an Ed-like type-A is behind me, and I'm on the clock on every shot. Since plenty of my second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh shots are going to spray liberally around the fairways(all fairways are in play) it's gonna take me a while on that 505yd par 5. I regularly have a twosome hit up into me on the 4th or 5th hole and have them play through us. So - now they are waiting on the next group in front of me. Nicely done.

I will say in my defense that when I lose a ball or 7 on a round of 18 I really don't spend a lot of time looking for it. If I don't see it in when I walk up, I'll take a drop and give it a whack. Of course, that irritates the guys behind me too because I leave little dimpled land-minds for them to hit the wrong one and take a penalty(DOH!). Identify your own ball carefully.
 
EdFred said:
You can play horrible, and still play fast. No one needs 5 minutes to line up *any* shot. Before I get to the ball, 90% of the time I already know which club I'm hitting next. Then it's align body, 2-3 practice swings, and let 'er fly. The other issue with people is 2 guys in a cart, approximately the same distance from the hole, but one on the left side of the fairway one on the right. Left idiot drives cart to his ball, while right idiot sits in the cart and does nothing but watch. Left idiot *finally* hits his shot, it may be good, it may be crap. Then left idiot wipes off his club, puts it in the cart, and then drives over to right idiot's ball. Repeat process for right idiot. Repeat entire process until both balls have finally made it onto the green. Then they spend 5 minutes lining up a 25' putt. Hey geniuses, even the pros rarely make 25 foot putts, and the only reason they are is because they are playing for thousands of dollar. Get it close, take your two putt like you were going to end up with anyway and get your ass to the next tee box.

The way I make sure to keep things moving: Drive to ball furthest from the hole. Person making shot from there pulls 2-3 clubs out of their bag, and the other person takes the cart to their ball. The first guy hits his shot, and starts walking toward his ball. Person number two hits shot while person number one is walking, and starts driving to meet them after shot is taken. You can shave an hour off the game just by doing that. There are holes where even though I have a cart, I will end up walking half the hole. I actually prefer to walk the course, but hate carrying the bag.

Also: Wipe your clubs down, and figure out your score on the next tee box, not while still on the fairway/green.
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Very true. I'm always best off just sighting it as I walk up, feel the wind, line up and swing. I bring plenty of balls (I used to dive the ponds and fill lobster bag after lobster bag, I was the first person to dive SAFB, and I would pull out the ones I wanted, and the course sold the rest) and if I can't find it with a quick walk in the trees, I drop, no more than 30 seconds looking. You can shoot 120 and still do it in 2 hrs with a cart.
 
^^^ and what about any of this is supposed to be fun? LOL. Y'all can keep it. I'll go shooting.
 
vintage cessna said:
Some jurisdictions give tax breaks to courses for maintaining "open space" or habitat and wetland preservation. Ever hit your ball in an area on course property designated as a hazard and were prohibited from even entering the area to look for the ball?
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Nope, I live in a relatively sane state.
 
Henning said:
Not really. The bulk of golf isn't middle class people playing a game. Most all the owners I play with expense all their golf to their business so they don't even pay directly. The company writes it off.
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You live in rarefied territory.
 
Henning said:
It's the most sensible thing to do with it really. Would you want a developer building duplex townhouses down the fairways?
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My whole neighborhood used to be the golf course for the Norfolk Yacht and Country Club. They decided long ago the golf course wasn't viable and built some pretty nice homes with larger yards than most residential housing in this city. Hardly duplexes or townhouses.
 
Fearless Tower said:
My whole neighborhood used to be the golf course for the Norfolk Yacht and Country Club. They decided long ago the golf course wasn't viable and built some pretty nice homes with larger yards than most residential housing in this city. Hardly duplexes or townhouses.
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Still houses in your back yard rather than a micro nature preserve. I know which I would prefer.
 
Henning said:
Actually not, it's actually huge territory, just isn't in the general view, they learned their lesson from Marie Antoinette.
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Sorry iHenning, I don't share your view, either. Most of the guys I see playing in the mornings or on the weekends are the middle class guys paying their own way, or club members who are usually retired or semi-retired. Sure, there are plenty of guys who bring clients/employees out for a round to "discuss business", but I'd say in terms of sheer numbers the average joe is paying just as much as corporate America is. Sure, at the more exclusive country clubs that might not be the case, but the public and semi-private courses outnumber the elite courses by an order of magnitude. I have no less than 10 golf courses within 30 minutes of me, and only two of them have membership on what I would consider to be "exclusive" level.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Sorry iHenning, I don't share your view, either. Most of the guys I see playing in the mornings or on the weekends are the middle class guys paying their own way, or club members who are usually retired or semi-retired. Sure, there are plenty of guys who bring clients/employees out for a round to "discuss business", but I'd say in terms of sheer numbers the average joe is paying just as much as corporate America is. Sure, at the more exclusive country clubs that might not be the case, but the public and semi-private courses outnumber the elite courses by an order of magnitude. I have no less than 10 golf courses within 30 minutes of me, and only two of them have membership on what I would consider to be "exclusive" level.
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Same for us. The wealthiest guy I know at our club in Illinois is a dentist who has the contract for the local AAA hockey team.
 
I didn't read all the posts, but are there any airport / golf course combinations?
 
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