Golf on the decline. Doesn't look good for the future

Challenged said:
I live on a golf course that's struggling and have played my entire life. With the airplane, work, wife and a kid, my time for golf is slim these days. I hope the course we live on (purchased by the home owners a couple of years ago) can make it, but the latest financials I've seen aren't promising.
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I have wondered about those residential courses as to what happens if they go belly up. Those strips of land aren't really good for further residential development, you can't really farm them either. What is the zoning for the golf-course land ?

I used to live in a development that had some land behind each property that was supposed to be a city park. Eventually, when the city couldn't get their act together, the developer sold the land to the adjacent property owners to enlarge their lots.
 
weilke said:
I have wondered about those residential courses as to what happens if they go belly up. Those strips of land aren't really good for further residential development, you can't really farm them either. What is the zoning for the golf-course land ?

I used to live in a development that had some land behind each property that was supposed to be a city park. Eventually, when the city couldn't get their act together, the developer sold the land to the adjacent property owners to enlarge their lots.
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Perfect for simple conversion to urban/suburban wetlands and wildlife parks and get the land off the tax roll. The other way I see to handle it is to extend the property lines and work it all out.
 
Not really sure what the course itself is zoned. The original developer is attempting to develop some smaller houses on smaller lots using the driving range ( which the home owners did not purchase as part of the deal). I'm trying to get support to purchase the land from him, but the whole thing is a bit of a mess right now. Great neighborhood otherwise, so I hope we can work it out.

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We've got a golf course subdivision a couple miles from our house, the development and course went belly up! An investor bought it all and closed the course, it's returning to the wild as I type this! :mad2:

weilke said:
I have wondered about those residential courses as to what happens if they go belly up. Those strips of land aren't really good for further residential development, you can't really farm them either. What is the zoning for the golf-course land ?

I used to live in a development that had some land behind each property that was supposed to be a city park. Eventually, when the city couldn't get their act together, the developer sold the land to the adjacent property owners to enlarge their lots.
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N747JB said:
We've got a golf course subdivision a couple miles from our house, the development and course went belly up! An investor bought it all and closed the course, it's returning to the wild as I type this! :mad2:
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It's the most sensible thing to do with it really. Would you want a developer building duplex townhouses down the fairways?
 
weilke said:
I have wondered about those residential courses as to what happens if they go belly up. Those strips of land aren't really good for further residential development, you can't really farm them either. What is the zoning for the golf-course land ?

I used to live in a development that had some land behind each property that was supposed to be a city park. Eventually, when the city couldn't get their act together, the developer sold the land to the adjacent property owners to enlarge their lots.
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N747JB said:
We've got a golf course subdivision a couple miles from our house, the development and course went belly up! An investor bought it all and closed the course, it's returning to the wild as I type this! :mad2:
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One down the street from me in Florida went bankrupt a few years ago and it has mostly returned to nature. The housing subdivision was only half developed so there are still a ton of lots that arent even cleared but have very nice roads and all the piping and infrastructure run to the lots. Buddy of mine lived on it and we used to go four wheeling and ride dirtbikes on the course. Roads were very smooth and were great for skateboarding and it was quiet enough back there to bring a girl ;)

As to the golf itself its too damn expensive. A buddy and I will go every once in a while and rent a set of clubs and a cart for some shenanigans and whoever shoots the lowest score buys. This is maybe once or twice a year but Id love to do it more because I really do enjoy it but its too expensive.
 
Golf? There's an App for that now...
 
paflyer said:
Golf? There's an App for that now...
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Good one. :cheerswine:

I used to love to play in San Diego where the weather was great, the beer was cold, and usually had a good view of something. now, when I go play it's hot, or windy, or I play bad. I guess I'm a golf snob, but I can't afford to be one.
 
"Golf… a good walk spoiled" - MT

Not only are less people playing, the courses themselves don't make any sense. Acres of turf grass with tons of chemicals, heavy watering, etc. Then you have to find people willing to show up for work at 3am that actually know how to mow, care for greens, etc. Last you have the predominance of the cheap ass golfer only willing to pay $20-30 a round.

The 90's was the decade for golf.
 
At our home in illinois we belong to a club near our house. We are primarily members so our kids can be on the swim team. Also one of our daughters likes to fish in the ponds, which is allowed and encouraged. Before we moved we were members there for 3 years and i played 9 holes a few times, but i've never played 18. Its too cumbersome to play that much with the kids and i dont have any inclination to engage in hobbies that dont include the kids. With our work schedules we see them too little as it is.
 
RJM62 said:
Yep. New York State has reduced the minimum hunting age to 12, dramatically lowered the cost of the license to $22.00 ($5.00 for ages 12 - 15), reduced the doe permit fee to $10.00 (free for ages 12 - 15), combined the big-game and small-game licenses into one, and legalized crossbows, all in an attempt to get more people hunting.

Rich
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New York must have a real deer problem!! Either that, or New York has really grown accustom to the license revenue.

What's really working against hunting though is the simple fact that we don't need to hunt for food anymore and kids are now raised on Disney, PBS and all manor of animal friendly cartoon shows. Hunting has become about convincing kids to kill animals just to hang out with friends and family in the woods.

Truth is, normal human beings don't naturally want to kill things, but they can be trained to do so. Either by fathers taking their kids into the woods, by the army, or by criminals and gangs. It just is what it is. Unless there is an abnormality our brains, we naturally find taking life unpleasant and upsetting.

Pointing, shooting and "killing the enemy", or "prey" for sport and fun can now be done cheaply and without any moral soul searching issues on a video game console. If one wants to shoot the real guns, there are paper targets, metallic targets, clay pigeons and even bottles, cans and TV sets. Hunting is shrinking because it is largely becoming obsolete in this country.

There is always the issue of animal population control as humans expand further and further, but there will always be hunters and people wanting to take care of that problem. Hunting like GA, will always exist in this country, just not as big as the past.
 
docmirror said:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...y-america-fell-out-of-love-with-golf/?hpid=z5

I found myself playing less and less last year, and it looks like I'm not alone. I started playing with my dad back in the late 70s when I was in college, and it always gave me a great sense of camaraderie and pleasure when we didn't have to play fast. He retired on a private course, and it went under a few years later, so it's happening all over the country. We have a fairly new course near my house and it's struggling along, but not gaining much.

The new demographic likes faster action, and immediate gratification to learn golf well. Wonder if it will ever recover.
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I haven't picked up a set of clubs in many years. But I used to enjoy it growing up. I would probably bite at it right now, but at one time, I could at least keep up.

We agree on the new blood's likes different things for different reasons.

It's money right now, time, and popularity, about in that order imo. :redface:
 
I still play often. Of course, it helps that the parents have retired to a golf community with 36 holes....a Pete Dye course and Clive Clark course.

I still enjoy it s lot, particularly when it's free. Also a good way to network with my dads friends/golfing buddies.
 
I only golf on the courses with the little windmills in the middle.
 
flyingron said:
I only golf on the courses with the little windmills in the middle.
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Me too....

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Some pretty nice courses round my area.

Bighorn_Golf_Club_-_Canyons_352829.jpg
 
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Search YouTube for GoPro videos of golfing and you'll figure out why the youth have no interest. Add in the skyrocketing costs and you see a sport without much future. The frustrating nature of the game is just another ding....Tiger Woods is Exhibit A on that point.
 
I can't stand to play golf. Feels like I'm playing fetch with myself. As a kid , I drove the cart into a water hazard and completely submerged it out of pure boredom. But, the biggest hangup for me is needing a new wardrobe just to chase balls in, I don't wear khakis and collared shirts for fun.
 
Coming to a country club this summer.

wife-beater and low-rider jeans, down around the thigh.

That should cure golf. ;)
 
docmirror said:
Coming to a country club this summer.

wife-beater and low-rider jeans, down around the thigh.

That should cure golf. ;)
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Today's attire is a big sky Montana ski resort t-shirt, some wrangler jeans from Walmart and the cheapest set of new balance shoes I could find on the sale rack at the outlet store.

It's been good enough to hang out at fancy FBOs with folks who own their own personal county clubs like Charles Schwab, Mitt Romney and Dennis Washington. But I guess im too redneck to golf with people who make payments on golf carts. I'm either getting paid or someone has died if I'm wearing a collar.
 
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bartmc said:
Today's attire is a big sky Montana ski resort t-shirt, some wrangler jeans from Walmart and the cheapest set of new balance shoes I could find on the sale rack at the outlet store. .
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Interesting for a guy who eschews fashion attire, you have three brand name products on. I'm wearing a no-name collared shirt with a sweater I picked up at Goodwill and some khaki pants from Target. Going to breakfast with the Porsche club. I'll be dressed similar to others. If I see anyone in a Hugo Boss jacket with crest - I'll let you know. ;)
 
teejayevans said:
More than general aviation?
More than boating?

Expensive hobbies are the first thing to cut when $ is an issue.
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I meant in the real estate world, but yes to the other two as well. A lot of these properties were way over priced and dropped way off, and many of the people in them were in them very precariously.
 
bartmc said:
I can't stand to play golf. Feels like I'm playing fetch with myself. As a kid , I drove the cart into a water hazard and completely submerged it out of pure boredom. But, the biggest hangup for me is needing a new wardrobe just to chase balls in, I don't wear khakis and collared shirts for fun.
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That's my take on it, too. I never found the experience of spending several hours in the hot sun alternately driving a ball into the distance and chasing after it to be especially recreational. It seems pretty pointless to me, especially considering that the object of the game is to do it as few times as possible. Why bother going at all if the goal is to take as few strokes as you can? You can stay home, take no strokes at all, and always be a winner.

I went a few times out of curiosity when I was a kid, and I didn't like it; and I went a few more times for work reasons as a young adult, and I liked it even less. As soon as I was out of the corporate world and running my own show, I declined all further golf invites. I may have lost a few potential accounts that way. Such is life.

Still, I wouldn't want to see the pastime disappear. There must be something to it considering the grip it has on so many devotees. But alas, I think the game's days are numbered. Today's young people have neither the time, the money, nor the attention spans to devote to such activities. Any activity that can't be squeezed into 160 characters is pretty much outside their range of comprehension.

Rich
 
There is a special wardrobe needed for golf? Huh, I never got into it that far, I always played in whatever was right for the weather and let me move. Same thing I would likely play football or baseball in. I do have a pair of golf shoes, but prefer barefoot unless it's cold.

The biggest grip it has is on office dwellers. It creates an out door break where business can be conduducted so they can get out of the office on the company dime. Most golf is paid for by the taxpayer.
 
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Golf is losing ground as well it should. What is called Golf today barely resembles Golf of 50 years ago. Three things have killed golf. Equipment (clubs and balls) the golf cart and over emphasis on putting.

The old courses were designed for walking. Rounds would take 3-3.5 hours to play. Four hours was a horrendous day. The greens were bumpy somewhat hairy things; you took your two puts and moved on to the next tee. Today's greens, every putt is makeable, but they are so slick you need to be careful. People agonize over putts now.

With the new equipment meant greater distance, and shortly the old courses were obsolete. New courses required more acreage and hence are more costly to build and maintain. The new courses are also built around the golf cart. It is not practical to walk most newer courses and almost no one does.

So we now have a so called sporting activity that essentialy takes up your entire day, and you don't even get any meaningful excercise.
 
vintage cessna said:
Golf is losing ground as well it should. What is called Golf today barely resembles Golf of 50 years ago. Three things have killed golf. Equipment (clubs and balls) the golf cart and over emphasis on putting.

The old courses were designed for walking. Rounds would take 3-3.5 hours to play. Four hours was a horrendous day. The greens were bumpy somewhat hairy things; you took your two puts and moved on to the next tee. Today's greens, every putt is makeable, but they are so slick you need to be careful. People agonize over putts now.

With the new equipment meant greater distance, and shortly the old courses were obsolete. New courses required more acreage and hence are more costly to build and maintain. The new courses are also built around the golf cart. It is not practical to walk most newer courses and almost no one does.

So we now have a so called sporting activity that essentialy takes up your entire day, and you don't even get any meaningful excercise.
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That is the end result with any activity in a competitive society. Nothing is good enough, it has to be better, even if there is no need.

Racing has become much the same. Heck, we used to compete building cars out of the junkyard and do well on minimal budgets. You can still do that to a small degree in drag racing, but pretty much everything else, if you want to be competitive, you're going to need to spend significant money. Are we turning faster times now? Oh hell yes, but for what purpose?:dunno: It's just having fun really. Except that all sports have been packaged into commodities for advertising revenue. Once that money comes into play, now manufacturing comes into play and the competition for those $$$ gets serious.
 
vintage cessna said:
...Three things have killed golf. Equipment (clubs and balls) the golf cart and over emphasis on putting.
....
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couldn't disagree more. those are 3 things that make golf awesome. 1) there is nothing exciting about a 180 yard drive. watch someone blast a 350 yard drive and try not to be amazed. 2) the golf cart, or "Beer Transportation Utility Vehicle" as I like to call it, is just fun no matter how u look at it. I'll give you this, if it's 'cart path only', carts can slow a round down considerably. 3) putting is an awesome aspect of the game, very challenging and aggravating at the same time. wtf is the point of "give yourself 2 putts and move on"?!? why bother even putting when the ball is bouncing every which way? might as well just hit until you get on the green then not even bother putting if you're just giving yourself a 2-putt. I love lightening fast greens. pick your line and get the ball moving. if you can't read a green it'll kill your score.

also, "game improvement" clubs have helped the average hack to be able to occasionally hit a ball, as opposed to worm-burning it the entire way to the green (or to the lake, or the sand traps, or the woods, etc...). speaking of that, maybe the game needs the equivalent of "gutter guards" in bowling lol. something that always keeps the ball in play no matter how bad u suck.
 
Henning said:
That is the end result with any activity in a competitive society. Nothing is good enough, it has to be better, even if there is no need.

Racing has become much the same. Heck, we used to compete building cars out of the junkyard and do well on minimal budgets. You can still do that to a small degree in drag racing, but pretty much everything else, if you want to be competitive, you're going to need to spend significant money. Are we turning faster times now? Oh hell yes, but for what purpose?:dunno: It's just having fun really. Except that all sports have been packaged into commodities for advertising revenue. Once that money comes into play, now manufacturing comes into play and the competition for those $$$ gets serious.
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Yes, but the USGA should have clamped down on the equipment right at the beginning. How many Major League ball parks would be obsolete if they were using metal bats and hopped up balls?

Of course greed had a lot to do with golfs demise also. Courses could make money off of golf carts where as before they made nothing off of caddies.

People also demand a more manicured course now. The amount of water and chemicals dumped onto courses now is appalling.

If Golf dies in this country , good riddance. At least in Britian there is no such thing as a motorized golf cart.
 
eman1200 said:
couldn't disagree more. those are 3 things that make golf awesome. 1) there is nothing exciting about a 180 yard drive. watch someone blast a 350 yard drive and try not to be amazed. 2) the golf cart, or "Beer Transportation Utility Vehicle" as I like to call it, is just fun no matter how u look at it. I'll give you this, if it's 'cart path only', carts can slow a round down considerably. 3) putting is an awesome aspect of the game, very challenging and aggravating at the same time. wtf is the point of "give yourself 2 putts and move on"?!? why bother even putting when the ball is bouncing every which way? might as well just hit until you get on the green then not even bother putting if you're just giving yourself a 2-putt. I love lightening fast greens. pick your line and get the ball moving. if you can't read a green it'll kill your score.

also, "game improvement" clubs have helped the average hack to be able to occasionally hit a ball, as opposed to worm-burning it the entire way to the green (or to the lake, or the sand traps, or the woods, etc...). speaking of that, maybe the game needs the equivalent of "gutter guards" in bowling lol. something that always keeps the ball in play no matter how bad u suck.
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It is all relative. What club do you think Ben Hogan hit from 150 yards?
 
vintage cessna said:
Golf is losing ground as well it should. What is called Golf today barely resembles Golf of 50 years ago. Three things have killed golf. Equipment (clubs and balls) the golf cart and over emphasis on putting.

The old courses were designed for walking. Rounds would take 3-3.5 hours to play. Four hours was a horrendous day. The greens were bumpy somewhat hairy things; you took your two puts and moved on to the next tee. Today's greens, every putt is makeable, but they are so slick you need to be careful. People agonize over putts now.

With the new equipment meant greater distance, and shortly the old courses were obsolete. New courses required more acreage and hence are more costly to build and maintain. The new courses are also built around the golf cart. It is not practical to walk most newer courses and almost no one does.

So we now have a so called sporting activity that essentialy takes up your entire day, and you don't even get any meaningful excercise.
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Ever been on a walking course following a foursome of octogenarians? Six hours would be fast. Carts are there to speed up play.
 
Alexb2000 said:
Ever been on a walking course following a foursome of octogenarians? Six hours would be fast. Carts are there to speed up play.
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Disagree. Carts have in general slowed down the game. Each player use to walk directly to their ball. With carts people are zig zagging back and forth. You used to ponder your next shot while walking.
 
Henning said:
There is a special wardrobe needed for golf? Huh, I never got into it that far, I always played in whatever was right for the weather and let me move. Same thing I would likely play football or baseball in. I do have a pair of golf shoes, but prefer barefoot unless it's cold.

The biggest grip it has is on office dwellers. It creates an out door break where business can be conduducted so they can get out of the office on the company dime. Most golf is paid for by the taxpayer.
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I'm only aware of one course around here that will let you play in a shirt without a collar. It's the only course I've been to.
 
eman1200 said:
couldn't disagree more. those are 3 things that make golf awesome. 1) there is nothing exciting about a 180 yard drive. watch someone blast a 350 yard drive and try not to be amazed. 2) the golf cart, or "Beer Transportation Utility Vehicle" as I like to call it, is just fun no matter how u look at it. I'll give you this, if it's 'cart path only', carts can slow a round down considerably. 3) putting is an awesome aspect of the game, very challenging and aggravating at the same time. wtf is the point of "give yourself 2 putts and move on"?!? why bother even putting when the ball is bouncing every which way? might as well just hit until you get on the green then not even bother putting if you're just giving yourself a 2-putt. I love lightening fast greens. pick your line and get the ball moving. if you can't read a green it'll kill your score.

also, "game improvement" clubs have helped the average hack to be able to occasionally hit a ball, as opposed to worm-burning it the entire way to the green (or to the lake, or the sand traps, or the woods, etc...). speaking of that, maybe the game needs the equivalent of "gutter guards" in bowling lol. something that always keeps the ball in play no matter how bad u suck.
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Playing polo-golf from a moving cart however lets you play 18 holes in about 20 minutes.:rofl: You do go through a crap load of balls though.:lol:
 
When I was a kid caddying, you never saw obese players on the course. They all smoked like crazy during the round and would gamble and drink like sailors after the round. None of them had any issue though walking 18 holes. I think half the people you see on a course now would collapse after walking nine holes.
 
vintage cessna said:
When I was a kid caddying, you never saw obese players on the course. They all smoked like crazy during the round and would gamble and drink like sailors after the round. None of them had any issue though walking 18 holes. I think half the people you see on a course now would collapse after nine holes.
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Yeah, it isn't exactly a fitness sport anymore. I use to walk in Australia all the time with a little caddy cart. Australia golf is a bargain. $105Aus per year for the Counsel Rec Memebership, and you get all the golf courses, pools, and other public rec facilities. Walk on price is $18-22. Public Rec is one thing Australia does very well.
 
Henning said:
Playing polo-golf from a moving cart however lets you play 18 holes in about 20 minutes.:rofl: You do go through a crap load of balls though.:lol:
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I'm IN, when's our teetime?
 
Henning said:
Yeah, it isn't exactly a fitness sport anymore. I use to walk in Australia all the time with a little caddy cart. Australia golf is a bargain. $105Aus per year for the Counsel Rec Memebership, and you get all the golf courses, pools, and other public rec facilities. Walk on price is $18-22. Public Rec is one thing Australia does very well.
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You can actually stay somewhat fit if you play golf and walk. A noted sports Doctor once wrote that walking 18 holes and carrying your clubs was the equivalent of a 10 mile jog.
 
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