Glider pilot illegally arrested for flying over nuke plant

tonycondon said:
i caught a thermal once near a powerplant in SE Iowa. It saved my flight from having to land in a field. Matt Michael was disappointed because he was standing in that field and wanted to be able to see me land out. I climbed as much as I needed and then beat it out of there before someone saw me. I was not aware of the SSA's letter at the time that determined thermalling was not loitering.

Thankfully the guy had a logger so he could prove that he wasn't nearly as close as they said he was. I bet they had really sad looks on their faces when presented with that evidence.
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I doubt anyone saw that evidence. Even if he'd been 500 feet over the structure, he'd have still broken no laws.

I wish he'd have pressed for an apology and a plan to prevent it from happening again in exchange for not suing.

My takeaway from this is that unless a federal authority (FAA/DHS/DOJ) orders me to land somewhere, I'm not listening to locals.
 
Interesting how just about everyone in 'authority' was both wrong and lied. Only the FAA and the airport ops girl are in the clear.

I have no idea why the pilot didn't just shut up and wait until the arraignment. He prolly gave him all the info they needed to cover their tracks. Go ahead, make my day.
 
When his attorney returned and said the case would be dismissed if he agreed not to take any legal action against Darlington County law enforcement, he said, he reluctantly agreed. But he wouldn’t be satisfied until he could be sure a pilot can rely on the sectional for direction and not go through a similar ordeal.
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Nuts. Just nuts.

Good thing TSA weighed in on this too. :mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2:
 
Thanks for posting this. I always try to avoid them, but I live in Nuke Town surrounded by them.
 
Bill Watson said:
It disturbs me too. I've flown with Jayne and Frank. I've flown over both power plants mentioned... all before 9/11. I've landed at Hartsville.

As I read it, the Feds pretty much had it right. That includes the FAA and DHS though it doesn't seem they were directly involved until after the pilot had been detained. The "remember 9/11" line came out of the local police/sheriff's department.

Local police and deputies may get carried away a bit with their enforcement efforts. They have a lot of weapons (remember 9/11) and a lot of time. In SC, busting meth labs probably gets a bit boring and it's been a long time since they can stop black drivers for an afternoon's entertainment (there's a long history of this in this part of SC). But a call from a nuke plant security person is license to let the dogs out. Seems like everyone except "local law enforcement" kept their wits about them and would have handled the situation appropriately. But a gun waving deputy demands attention and it's generally best to submit... as this pilot did.

You want to sue the Darlington police in a SC court? Good luck.

That's not to denigrate the Darlington police or any other "local law enforcement". All it takes is one cowboy to start the s__t, but once it starts, the wagons circle and it's best to just back out. I'm really glad no one was hurt.

A tip: the most important document you can have when "local law enforcement" interacts with you and your plane is a drivers license. Not a pilots license or any of that FAA stuff but a driver's license. They know how to process that.
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I generally agree with what you have said. I have to say this story really infuriated me for a few reasons:

1) The Nuke plant folks either lied or can't judge distance when they described how high the glider was over the plant 100' really?
2)The Nuke plant folks are familar with the airport. They have called before the lady at the FBO said it wasn't a threat. But they ignored that.
3) The police acted like thugs in this situation which is imho and insult to all smart and responsible LEOs, had no clue what their limits of authority were. As I see it they were either power hungry or horribly ignorant. They have zero authority to demand that any plane land anywhere. They threatened to "comandeer the airport" really! One of them said they would shoot the plane down. The police lied about what actually happened and the exchanges between the pilot and the woman on the Unicom. Thank the lord for the independant witness and the tracking unit in the plane. Sadly their lies lead me to belive that their actions were not due to ignorance but rather a malicious thirst for power.

So the bigger question is how to solve this issue. Yes an example could be made out of the local police / sheriff's dept. and imho the pilot has a claim for a violation of his civil rights. That will be his decision as to whether or not to bring it.

I think it is sadly up to the pilot community through AOPA, EAA , SAA and others to education local law enforcement it may be like ****ing in the ocean but as they say one step forward at a time. Certainly with the department that is the subject of this story I think AOPA, SAA etc should try and educate them. If they are receptive to being educated and apologize to the pilot, great, the flying commnity and the department can shake hands and walk away. If not then Perhaps they should be shamed relentlessly for the purpose of teaching others.

Truely good LEOs and there are scads of them out there I'm sure will be embarassed by the actions of these guys.
 
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The kids wearing the 'skateboarding is not a crime' tshirts 30 years ago were already aware of this stuff. No one else cared, why should anyone care now?
 
AdamZ said:
I generally agree with what you have said. I have to say this story really infuriated me for a few reasons:

1) The Nuke plant folks either lied or can't judge distance when they described how high the glider was over the plant 100' really?
2)The Nuke plant folks are familar with the airport. They have called before the lady at the FBO said it wasn't a threat. But they ignored that.
3) The police acted like thugs in this situation which is imho and insult to all smart and responsible LEOs, had no clue what their limits of authority were. As I see it they were either power hungry or horribly ignorant. They have zero authority to demand that any plane land anywhere. They threatened to "comandeer the airport" really! One of the said they would shoot the plane down. The police lied about what actually happened and the exchanges between the pilot and the woman on the Unicom. Thank the lord for the independant witness and the tracking unit in the plane. Sadly their lies lead me to belive that their actions were not due to ignorance but rather a malicious thirst for power.

So the bigger question is how to solve this issue. Yes an example could be made out of the local police / sheriff's dept. and imho the pilot has a claim for a violation of his civil rights. That will be his decision as to whether or not to bring it.

I think it is sadly up to the pilot community through AOPA, EAA , SAA and others to education local law enforcement it may be like ****ing in the ocean but as they say one step forward at a time. Certainly with the department that is the subject of this story I think AOPA, SAA etc should try and educate them. If they are receptive to being educated and apologize to the pilot, great, the flying commnity and the department can shake hands and walk away. If not then Perhaps they should be shamed relentlessly for the purpose of teaching others.

Truely good LEOs and there are scads of them out there I'm sure will be embarassed by the actions of these guys.
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I believe I mentioned this before on PoA (with significant blowback) but with support and encouragement from the MSP airport police we have formed an "Airport Watch" group at our airport that's building a strong relationship with the local LEOs. One of the primary purposes of this effort is to provide the knowledge and understanding of GA within the local police force and given what we've accomplished in that direction I'm very confident that something like the incident in S.C. cannot happen here.

I also think that if one or more pilots at every GA airport in the country reached out to the local LEO organization with an offer of education about GA ops things might just get better.
 
Having come before the bar of justice a few times, and having no charges ever stick into arraignment I can say this guy made several huge mistakes. first, when it goes anywhere beyond a traffic citation, where you can possibly talk your way out of a ticket and into a warning, shut up. Second, keep and document everything everyone says, like the 'shoot him down' stuff. That kind of evidence usually gets misplaced and is grounds for action by a decent civil right atty. This is why the agreement was that the charges will be dropped if he agrees not to sue. Finally, if you consider yourself innocent, or even partially innocent, or even ignorant of all charges then you escalate when they escalate. I've found each time the state/feds will back down when you trump them. This has been confirmed every time, including my favorite incident when the feds arrested a few old librarians when they refused to give out lenders info to the feds with one of those made-up warrants. The feds kept upping the charges, and the librarians just said 'go ahead, make my day'. Of course, it was all dropped, and the feds apologized.

If they got a beef, prove it in court, beyond a reasonable doubt. I trust 12 people off the street far more than any cop/PA.
 
Ring, ring...

Good morning South Carolina National Guard Air Defense.

Hi ya, dis is Zeke in security from da plant over yonder and I was a wantin to know if ya'll have any of them there anti-aircraft guns we could use for a spell?

Well we don't have a rental program if that's what you're asking.

No, ma'am, no rental, we just need to borrow it to shot down some damn homegrown Al Qaeda in a little plastic aircraft. See they's keep a pestering and un threaten us over here at the plant. Them smart little buggers stay just outside of Jethro's shotgun range so we's need something with a little more umph. Heeh, heeh, heeh. We's thinkin about makin it a little turkey shoot, you know something to get the kids excited.

We'll, I understand, you know that isn't legal right?

Hell woman, don't you know you're talking to the LAW and what the law does is legal. Otherwise, we wouldn't be the law now would we?

Please hold while I contact the FBI.
 
Bill Watson said:
That's conspiracy. That will put you in jail.

A little education and training combined with a demo glider ride or 2 might be a bit more effective.
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Perhaps I really don't understand how the Bill of Rights works, but I would consider it the 'right to peacefully assemble'.
 
Wow, pretty bad. How is their "offer" not to prosecute even illegal? People in positions of power should lose their jobs or be charged with a crime when doing something like that. They are in a position of power and should be held to a higher standard than the rest of us, not a lower standard.

I suggest we as a group make some calls to the Sheriff's office asking what the heck is going on with their podunk, Barney Fife, tough-guy operation.
http://www.darcosc.com/sheriff/

This is just one reason I have absolutely no respect for people who work for TSA & DHS. They are leaches on the productive members of society.

Darlington County Sheriff Office
1621 Harry Byrd Highway
Darlington, SC 29532

Telephone: 843-398-4501
Fax: 843-398-4502
Email: sheriff@darcosc.com
 
If one of us was proven to have lied in a police report, I presume we would get into trouble. Apparently when it is proven that these police officers lied on their police report, they get away scot free. That's very disturbing - no wonder people often see the police as the enemy.

I will certainly never land if instructed by local law enforcement, after reading this. It is good to know that they have no authority.
 
AdamZ said:
3) The police acted like thugs in this situation which is imho and insult to all smart and responsible LEOs, had no clue what their limits of authority were. As I see it they were either power hungry or horribly ignorant. They have zero authority to demand that any plane land anywhere. They threatened to "comandeer the airport" really! One of the said they would shoot the plane down. The police lied about what actually happened and the exchanges between the pilot and the woman on the Unicom. Thank the lord for the independant witness and the tracking unit in the plane. Sadly their lies lead me to belive that their actions were not due to ignorance but rather a malicious thirst for power.
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What's the saying, Adam? "You can beat the rap but you can't beat the ride"? In some places the Cops understand that you will end up paying in time, hassles, and arrest record, even if the case is dismissed.


SteveR said:
Wow, pretty bad. How is their "offer" not to prosecute even illegal?
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They can offer anything they want. It's up to the other side to accept or not. I suspect that the cost of defending one's self (before a rural judge) and the cost of pursuing a lawsuit would far exceed any money attained. Same reason that many folks settle out-of-court.
 
His first mistake was landing. Some voice on Unicom says "land" and I'll just change frequencies. Short of a 9/11 and the national airspace being closed, what authority can tell you to land someplace you hadn't planned on landing? And, Barney Fife saying "we'll shoot him down"? The title of Kittenger's book says it all. "Come up and get me." Idiots.
 
What may be even more disturbing about this whole incident is that it is very likely this local police department (and many more like them across the country) is probably on that list of entities requesting authority to operate their own UAV in the NAS.

Cops love gadgets :hairraise:
 
upstateny said:
Give someone a badge and a gun and step back.

While teaching my scuba diving class, I always start the first session with introductions, who are you?, why do you want to learn to dive?, what do you do for a living?, etc. One college student said he was in the Criminal Justice program and wanted to be a State Trooper "so I can go out and bust some heads." I told him that might not be the best reason to become a trooper, but he was insistant.

I was so concerned about his attitude that I wanted to write someone to make sure they take a real hard look at him should he ever apply, but was afraid they might take it as a letter of recommendation.
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Anybody who applies to be come an NYS Trooper has to undergo a psychological evaluation before being considered. The "so I can go out and bust some heads."aspect will probably be looked at. Psychological evaluations for the local constabulary will depend on each jurisdiction.
 
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1600vw said:
I have wondered if anyone would fire upon me as I fly along at 700-1000'. Scary stuff indeed
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When I did mapping during the hunting season in Colorado I was told that there was a good chance the plane would be shot at. Don't know what I was supposed to do about it, though.
 
1600vw said:
I wonder how long before this happens to someone flying a small eab or ultralight at 1000' over some small town's water tower and the local Barney bad### does just what happened here.

Or flying to close to a power plant from 1000'. Not just Nuk. but any power plant.
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"Come get me." Anyone flying from about anywhere in coastal Maine to or from(To the east) will fly over, or near this, located on Cousin's Island.
(Wyman Power Station) which is on the tip of the right "wing"[out of picture] of the island in the other shot.
{And a real nice development of condos in the 2nd image.}

HR
 

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Where has this been hiding since it occurred in July 2012?

I took this article, the NOTAM, and a copy of the local area of our sectional, showing our nuc. plant (as tower obstructions) within the bounds of a Victor route and had a meeting with our local Sheriff. We've never had a problem here with LEOs but educating can't hurt. He was very receptive
 
Lawreston said:
"Come get me." Anyone flying from about anywhere in coastal Maine to or from(To the east) will fly over, or near this, located on Cousin's Island.
(Wyman Power Station) which is on the tip of the right "wing"[out of picture] of the island in the other shot.
{And a real nice development of condos in the 2nd image.}

HR
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Not a nuke plant. It doesn't make any diff to me or the regs from the FAA, but the boys on the ground at nuke plants, and the Barney's obviously think it's treated with special consideration. Of course, just one more error in the comedy of errors from the 'authorities'.
 
Herman vanOoijen said:
Anybody who applies to be come an NYS Trooper has to undergo a psychological evaluation before being considered. The "so I can go out and bust some heads."aspect will probably be looked at.
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The most disturbing aspect of the written psych battery to me was not so much the thought that some candidates might be suffering from some of the more bizarre underlying mental conditions that questions were targeting, but rather the thought that someone might actually be crazy enough to answer 'yes' to some of the questions about those 'issues.'

Does it go like this? "Why yes, I HAVE had persistent intrusive thoughts about perpetrating violence on random strangers and having inappropriate sexual contact with ungulates, thanks for asking. Now, when is the physical fitness test?"
 
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I just did a google map of the plant and the funny thing is, there are public roads, and private houses less that 200' from the plant.

It has to be one of the least safe nuke installations I've ever seen, and I've seen a lot of them up close and personal. I'm sure the plant operators report every car that goes by on Old Camden rd or hwy 151 as a threat. Suuuuuuuuurreeeeeeee.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=3581...sville,+Darlington,+South+Carolina+29550&z=17
 
The woman at the FBO was part of the problem. She said the nuke plant has often called and she has often provided information on airplanes in the vicinity. She needs to tell the nuke people to call ATC and quit being part of the local vigilante committee. She's not helping pilots by explaining their actions to the nuke people - she's reinforcing the nuke people's idea that they have some right/authority and can get people to jump when they start making phone calls. If she'd told them to buzz off the first time they called her, they might have gotten educated then.
Unicom people should put the mike back and stay out of any of these communication actions. Tell the people to let Center get on 122.8 or whatever and call the pilot.
 
Herman vanOoijen said:
Anybody who applies to be come an NYS Trooper has to undergo a psychological evaluation before being considered. The "so I can go out and bust some heads."aspect will probably be looked at. Psychological evaluations for the local constabulary will depend on each jurisdiction.
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A number of years ago, I was in a restaurant in a certain east coast state. Two tables over was a guy celebrating over dinner with his girl. He said - loud enough for half the restaurant to hear - and I quote: "So glad we graduated from the police acadamy today! Now we've got our guns and we have the power over the people".

Bad apple, but enough of that type get through the system to be scary.
 
Herman vanOoijen said:
Anybody who applies to be come an NYS Trooper has to undergo a psychological evaluation before being considered. The "so I can go out and bust some heads."aspect will probably be looked at. Psychological evaluations for the local constabulary will depend on each jurisdiction.
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...and considering it wasn't reported guarantees that he will slip through the cracks and will be busting heads in no time flat:mad: (not funny).
 
Herman vanOoijen said:
Anybody who applies to be come an NYS Trooper has to undergo a psychological evaluation before being considered. The "so I can go out and bust some heads."aspect will probably be looked at. Psychological evaluations for the local constabulary will depend on each jurisdiction.
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For some reason I was thinking of Alice's Resturant: "You're our boy" line.
 
Hmmmm..:mad::mad::mad2::mad2::eek:...

First.. Where the hell is AOPA ???????? and their "prestigious legal team.??:dunno:.

The guy was forced into taking that settlement,, That alone is non binding.:no::no:

Second... Read the book. http://www.judgenap.com/books/it-is-dangerous-to-be-right-when-the-government-is-wrong/..

it is EXACTLY aimed at this kind of authority abuse...:yes::rolleyes2:..


And... making the statement of " we will shoot him down" is assault, and using a US registered aircraft in the threat makes it a terroristic threat... That is a first class FELONY.......

Did I mention , where is the AOPA legal team ??:dunno:
 
Folks I don't really agree that it would be appropriate to inundate the department with calls. Letters perhaps would be appropriate but the Darlington County Sheriff's Dept. Has a Facebook page where a discussion about this incident has already begun.

It appears to me the Sheriff's department has dug their heels in and does not want to admit the facts . Reading the page would be entertaining if weren't so sad.

https://www.facebook.com/DCSOSheriff
 
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fgcason said:
That whole 9-11 thing was over a decade ago. Just a thought however maybe it's about time people start forgetting about 9-11-2001. Learn the lesson, write it in the history books and quit using it as an excuse for despicable behavior.
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Thank you. I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels this way.
 
AdamZ said:
Folks I don't really agree that it would be appropriate to inundate the department with calls. Letters perhaps would be appropriate but the Darlington County Sheriff's Dept. Has a Facebook page where a discussion about this incident has already begun.

It appears to me the Sheriff's department has dug their heels in and does not want to admit the facts . Reading the page would be entertaining if weren't so sad.

https://www.facebook.com/DCSOSheriff
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I cannot believe that a person with the Sheriff's office would think it would be a good idea to post that on their FB page. Just shows how full of themselves and clueless they are.
 
Everskyward said:
When I did mapping during the hunting season in Colorado I was told that there was a good chance the plane would be shot at. Don't know what I was supposed to do about it, though.
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What you needed then was me! Copilot, WSO to return fire!
 
N801BH said:
Hmmmm..:mad::mad::mad2::mad2::eek:...

First.. Where the hell is AOPA ???????? and their "prestigious legal team.??:dunno:.

The guy was forced into taking that settlement,, That alone is non binding.:no::no:

Second... Read the book. http://www.judgenap.com/books/it-is-dangerous-to-be-right-when-the-government-is-wrong/..

it is EXACTLY aimed at this kind of authority abuse...:yes::rolleyes2:..


And... making the statement of " we will shoot him down" is assault, and using a US registered aircraft in the threat makes it a terroristic threat... That is a first class FELONY.......

Did I mention , where is the AOPA legal team ??:dunno:
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They were $35 short of having enough jet fuel to go since someone didn't renew their membership.:D
 
AdamZ said:
Folks I don't really agree that it would be appropriate to inundate the department with calls. Letters perhaps would be appropriate but the Darlington County Sheriff's Dept. Has a Facebook page where a discussion about this incident has already begun.

It appears to me the Sheriff's department has dug their heels in and does not want to admit the facts . Reading the page would be entertaining if weren't so sad.

https://www.facebook.com/DCSOSheriff
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Idiots.
 
I can just see the chief telling Deputy Dan to go and quick search youtube for nuke plants and airplanes. The Hitler quote even gets political and basing liberals. Unreal.
 
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