GI-275 in the Moving Map Mode – Pirep Please!

Discussion in 'Avionics and Upgrades' started by Rob58, Nov 17, 2020.

  1. Rob58

    Rob58 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    The base model of the GI-275 is advertised as being very versatile. In addition to the basic CDI function, Garmin talks about a dedicated traffic page, a moving map page and an airport information page. As I understand it these options can be selected from the touchscreen. Looking for feedback on just how useful these various features are? Any and all comments are much appreciated!
     
  2. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    Supplementary question to above:

    Can the same moving map capability be superimposed when the GI-275 is installed as an HSI?
    If so, how practical is it IRL used that way, particularly for IFR? Is it a situational awareness improvement, or does it just clutter up the screen and make it more difficult to read the important HSI information on an approach?
     
  3. WannFly

    WannFly Final Approach

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    i think there is a synthetic vision unlock on 275 that was mentioned in one of their webinars, i cant remember if its on the AI of HSI, most likely AI.

    pinging @Jdm
     
  4. WannFly

    WannFly Final Approach

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    looks like it

    upload_2020-11-17_10-35-36.png
     
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  5. Ryan F.

    Ryan F. Cleared for Takeoff

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    I'm interested -- eventually -- in a GI275 used in this manner. I like the idea of my backup CDI display having some utility during everyday ops, rather than virtually none for 99.9% of my flight time. A dedicated traffic or possibly moving map display could have some merit, albeit it's a heck of a small screen for the latter, no? I'd be curious to see it in action and hear how pilots like it in practice.
     
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  6. Rob58

    Rob58 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Hi Ryan... I think you have correctly described the appeal of the CDI base version of the GI-275 for many of us. This is what motivated my original post here. I am hoping to get some feedback from folks that have made the move and are using the instrument in this mode. In busy areas I spend a lot of time watching the traffic hits on my iPad, but I would prefer to have this information in the instrument panel where it can be part of my scan. But the size of the device has me questioning how useful this mode of display might be. Hope we can get a few replies from some people that have been using the unit.
     
  7. AA5Bman

    AA5Bman Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I have the GI275 as my HSI indicator. Moving map mode is part of the HSI installation. I really like it. Yes the screen is bright enough and big enough to be useful. It does duplicate the moving map of your navigator (like a 650 or whatever) so in some sense it’s kind of gimmicky, but on another, it can display a mode (terrain, for instance) that is not on the navigator, and I really like it how it will chart your course and turns just like on the moving map of your GPS when flying IFR. Very nice to help anticipate turns and for situational awareness along your route. It actually displays traffic better than on a 650, if you look at the icons they both use you’ll see what I mean. VFR, I fly in the mountains a lot, and like having terrain which makes canyons and lower terrain super obvious just in case I were to get turned around in smoke or weather.

    In the end, you’re really just choosing between the G5 and a GI275 so the question is whether it’s worth the incremental dollars, and in my opinion, it definitely is.
     
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  8. Jdm

    Jdm Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I have the GI275 in the capacity you’ve described, along with the 650xi and dual G5’s. The 275’s various pages are incredibly useful. It’s become my favorite instrument.
     
  9. Ryan F.

    Ryan F. Cleared for Takeoff

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    Would you mind sharing a photo (or even better, a video) of it in action?

    I don't want to use the GI275 as an HSI, so seeing it as a backup CDI with this other functionality is of primary interest to me...
     
  10. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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  11. Jdm

    Jdm Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Yep, that it. Thanks GRG55
     
  12. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    My assumption is your two G5s were installed first and the GI 275 was installed somewhat later?

    On that assumption, my question: Given the current choices of G5 and GI 275 would you install GI 275s in the ADI and HSI instrument positions (instead of the G5s) if you were to do the upgrade today?

    @Ryan F. has indicated on this thread and prior that he would not want to have a GI 275 in either of the two primary gyro instrument positions - ADI & HSI. This is primarily due to preference for the larger "real estate" of the square shape of the G5s.

    I ask because I am being driven towards the GI 275 to replace mine because of its ability to work with my Piper/Century autopilot. But @Ryan F. makes a valid point. I do note, however, despite the smaller screen the primary instrument symbols appear to be larger on the GI 275 compared to the G5? And that screen resolution on the GI 275 is impressive!
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
  13. Jdm

    Jdm Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Nope. All at the same time. We placed an order in Dec of 2019 for 2 G5’s and a 650. In Jan of 2020 Garmin introduced the Xi’s and the 275 but we were not aware, and they weren’t about to tell us! It wasn’t until another month that I became aware of the new equipment options. Garmin refused to exchange any of our uninstalled equipment for the new stuff because it had been over than 30 days. We fought it with everything shy of a law suit. Finally they offered up the 650xi. We were fine with the G5’s all along so we left it at that.
    We had put off the decision for our #2 nav com until the last minute because of being undecided. After a lot of hashing we decided on a GNC255A but we really wanted it to have its own CDI and we want the capability to source select from #1 or #2. The price of the GI-275 was not much more than a new Garmin analog indicator yet it offered so much extra. We ultimately placed a 2nd order for the #2 setup and we couldn’t be happier with the results.


    Yes indeed. I wouldn’t hesitate to go with the GI-275 over the G5’s.

    Exactly. It’s not even comparable.
     
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  14. Ryan F.

    Ryan F. Cleared for Takeoff

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    I think for me the presentation is the "swing vote" but the cost is what keeps me in the G5s more than anything else. The GI275 is a really impressive piece of tech, but the delta between dual G5s and dual GI275s is pretty significant. I don't think there's any question that what the GI275s can do on paper far outstrip the G5s. Question is, do you need it? Can you use it? Especially for two of the most important displays in the aircraft?

    There's a lot of subjectivity in all of this of course, especially when it comes to presentation. Personally, I've never cared for cluttered displays. I have comparatively massive displays in work aircraft which are infinitely configurable, practically... and I tend to leave my HSI decluttered and put everything else of note on the MFD. I'd say most if not all of the pilots I work with are the same way; we like a simple PFD presentation. We have synthetic vision but I usually don't use it. When the Sandel EHSIs were new in the early 00s I was really fascinated by them. My intro to EHSIs came from teaching a client in his PA30 with a brand new SN3308 installed. Right away I looked for ways to remove information from the display rather than add anything. Doesn't make me right or wrong, it's just how I fly -- simple primary instrumentation displays, and let the information "flow down" elsewhere, such as MFDs, Navigators, iPads, etc. I'm a UI and Human Factors guy so if anything I think through these things to the extremes. Checklist design, flight deck configuration, where I hold an iPad on my lap and how I write on it... the sum of all these details make up the whole of the man-machine "interface" and these instruments are right in the center of the whole shebang. Not a small decision!

    Without calling anyone right or wrong, I'd venture to guess that most "GA grade" avionics are designed for what pilots think they want rather than what they really need.

    Garmin must have done the market research and determined that owners place very high value on keeping the 3.25" form factor, not having to cut up or redesign their panels. I understand it from a marketing perspective especially considering the many ways the display can be used, i.e. CDI, MFD, other configurable "pages" which would be in a non-primary flight instrument application. The majority of us would just as soon drop one of these instruments into the old "hole." But I wish they'd done a "square" GI275... I'd have been all over that.

    If you're comparing presentation the real question is what you can interpret at a glance, not the display size itself, not the screen resolution, etc. In my world, it only takes a quick glance at both displays to favor the G5, especially with the G5's "zoomed display" option which finally came about in a recent software upgrade. They're not calling it arc view, but that's pretty much what it is.

    I think the GI275 is a great piece of equipment, and I wouldn't turn one down for the right price. Mainly for the AP integration options. But don't forget to compare apples to apples in terms of the display. The unit itself is a touchscreen, which could be a positive or a negative in different situations. That means some of the display is eaten up by the interface. And the price to pay for this is information which is inevitably "layered." You don't get a full view of the compass rose -- all kinds of information sits on top of that. You don't get a full view of the primary HSI area, either... configuration buttons appear there. The vertical path display also rides inside the compass rose. None of these things are individually a deal-breaker, and for that matter maybe all of them combined aren't either. I think keeping the 3.25" round display factor is a major design compromise. The question is how much you get vs. how much you lose... and that is in the eye of the beholder.
     
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  15. Jdm

    Jdm Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Same here and also IP the Human Factors, FPM, etc. I totally agree with your declutter mentality but in the case of the G5 vs GI275 I fly them both and have a preference for the 275 due to reasons previously mentioned. Great display
     
  16. Rob58

    Rob58 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    This is great feedback to my original post - thanks for the feedback. Ryan, your comments are worthy of an FAA safety seminar! I'm going with the GI-275 as a CDI display and then down the road decide what I will replace the AI & DG with, maybe even the AV-30 if it proves to be more reliable and better supported than it is now. Actually my complaint with the G5 is more subjective: I just don't like putting a square peg in a round hole, even if it fits!
     
  17. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    @Jdm and @Ryan F. many thanks for the detailed information and perspective on this and the prior thread. Integrating this with my other research as I move to a decision.

    Jdm, that's quite a saga with Garmin. Got to admit I don't understand why they wouldn't have agreed to upsell you from the brand new, yet to be installed G5s to a pair of GI 275s. I would have thought if Garmin wouldn't do it your dealer would be happy to take the G5s and get the upsale. Can't imagine a pair of G5s would be that difficult to resell? :confused:
     
  18. Jdm

    Jdm Pre-takeoff checklist

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    They probably would have if we had pressed that angle. We were so focused on getting our unopened 650 exchanged for a 650Xi that we didn’t even consider pressing the G5s. Keep in mind that we had planned for the G5 for a long time and were excited about the upgrade. The GI-275s were hot off the press. We had no way of understanding the advantages back then and were totally ok with keeping the G5’s as planned.

    All in all we are EXTREMELY happy with the panel turnout. However, if we had it to do over I’m roughly 100% sure I’d go with full up GI-275s. Just saying:)
     
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  19. PPC1052

    PPC1052 En-Route

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    I also like the longer battery back-up time for the G5s. Not sure how important that is, though.
     
  20. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    Why?

    If you lose your electrical system are you planning to spend more than an hour wandering around in the clouds?

    The Cessna test standard for one of the G1000 equipped 182s at our airport is 55 minutes maintaining >20 volts.

    The 60 minute battery in the GI 275 should be plenty.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2020 at 8:32 AM
  21. PPC1052

    PPC1052 En-Route

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    No, not planning to.
     
  22. Ed Haywood

    Ed Haywood Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Time to update the old adage about most useless things in aviation: runway behind you, altitude above you, fuel on the ground, and uncharged battery capacity.