Getting back in the air after a refusal to test

  • Thread starter Anonymous flyer person
  • Start date
A

Anonymous flyer person

Guest
I “refused” to give a sample during a drug test. I know it was stupid but I was scared after a vacation to Colorado... (Clearly I have learned my lesson) Now I’ll have to find a sap and go through a hims program. The dot sap will cost 600$ but I’m not sure what it will cost for the ame and the rest of the medical professionals and process. Is there any chance I’ll be able to come back from this?
 
What were the reasons for the test in the first place?? Just a standard new employer test? Work incident required test? Got pulled over and law enforcement test? Test at AME?
Circumstances surrounding need for testing will dictate a lot I imagine. And why the quotes??? You either refused or you didn’t right?
 
If the refusal is pertinent, you’re looking at $10k to $50k, and 9 months to 1.5 years, all on average.

After getting medical, $2000 to $4000 annually.

Odds of recertification nearly 100%.

This is cheaper and easier than popping a drug test in many cases, but probably no more expensive or harder, so the refusal itself doesn’t really matter.
 
Honestly curious why so often it seems that "anonymous" postings do not provide the full and relevant information.
 
It’s a refusal if you give a sample that isn’t yours and are found out. This was supposed to be pre employment, but they never tested me at the start and only just now saw it wasn’t on file after a year of employment. They panicked and setup a test immediately. Then I panicked and I made a fear based irrational decision. I regret it, I’m embarrassed, and ashamed I didn’t try to talk to my employer beforehand.
 
Tools said:
If the refusal is pertinent, you’re looking at $10k to $50k, and 9 months to 1.5 years, all on average.

After getting medical, $2000 to $4000 annually.

Odds of recertification nearly 100%.

This is cheaper and easier than popping a drug test in many cases, but probably no more expensive or harder, so the refusal itself doesn’t really matter.
Click to expand...
Why is it 2-4k annually?
 
geneseib said:
How is it clear?
Click to expand...
It’s clear to me. I’m embarrassed and ashamed that I didn’t try to talk to my employer beforehand and then made a panicked decision based on fear of losing my job and my wings.
 
upload_2023-4-23_9-48-54.png
 
murphey said:
I'm baffled why pilots, who should know better, decide to partake when in Colorado?
Click to expand...
External pressure during weak moments. The vacation was for a funeral. Not everyone is perfect buddy. It was my understanding this was supposed to be a helpful forum…
 
So you knew that your medical, and I am assuming your job, depended on your abstaining, and yet you still decided it was a good idea to partake? Real-life consequences haven't gone the way of the dinosaur and unicorn yet, so that decision-making seems a lot less than stellar.

However, to answer your question, I'm sure you can come back from the exercise of such poor judgment, but it will cost you in time and money and willingness to be compliant to whatever limitations are placed on you.
 
I think we're missing the part of the story here as to whether OP is in a flying career or not.

For Basic Med, the question (n) "Substance dependence, failed a drug test ever, or substance abuse or use of illegal substance in the last 2 years"

If OP's refusal was for work, and that work doesn't require a Class I - II - III medical, it appears to me he could be refrain from any further drug use for 2 years and go basic med while answering the questions truthfully and move on with life. The FAA would not find out about refusal to do a drug test from a random employer where it isn't FAA-related.

It isn't clear on form 8500 instructions that a refusal to test that isn't related to conviction or administrative action (18.v. instructions) would actually need to be declared on a medical application. This might be between you and your employer's policies, if a medical certificate is required for your employment. This is probably a situation where a consult with an aviation attorney experienced in this area of law would be wise.
 
SkyChaser said:
So you knew that your medical, and I am assuming your job, depended on your abstaining, and yet you still decided it was a good idea to partake? Real-life consequences haven't gone the way of the dinosaur and unicorn yet, so that decision-making seems a lot less than stellar.

However, to answer your question, I'm sure you can come back from the exercise of such poor judgment, but it will cost you in time and money and willingness to be compliant to whatever limitations are placed on you.
Click to expand...
This was not my finest hour, no. I’m more than willing to atone for my mistakes and do what is necessary of me to make them right. Money might be the only thing that hangs me up.
 
murphey said:
Meant visitors to Colorado. I live here, never had any interest in it.
Click to expand...


My point was that someone who claims to have "tried" it while in CO in all likelihood has used it while in other places.

And as far as flying goes, the whole thing is moot anyway since marijuana use is against federal law; it's just as illegal for a pilot in CO as anywhere else. And I'm sure the OP knew that.
 
texasclouds said:
Refusal to test is an automatic fail. Sorry brutha, but I hear they are hiring truck drivers like mad right now.
Click to expand...
Depending on how this refusal is submitted. truck driving is out of the question. CDL medicals are kind of like flying medicals, they don't like drugs, DUI"s and failed substance tests. You also have to join a program where you get randomly tested that if you fail something you have to go through a help program before you are ever hire-able again.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
I think we're missing the part of the story here as to whether OP is in a flying career or not.

For Basic Med, the question (n) "Substance dependence, failed a drug test ever, or substance abuse or use of illegal substance in the last 2 years"

If OP's refusal was for work, and that work doesn't require a Class I - II - III medical, it appears to me he could be refrain from any further drug use for 2 years and go basic med while answering the questions truthfully and move on with life. The FAA would not find out about refusal to do a drug test from a random employer where it isn't FAA-related.

It isn't clear on form 8500 instructions that a refusal to test that isn't related to conviction or administrative action (18.v. instructions) would actually need to be declared on a medical application. This might be between you and your employer's policies, if a medical certificate is required for your employment. This is probably a situation where a consult with an aviation attorney experienced in this area of law would be wise.
Click to expand...
This excellent, thank you. I’m not a frequent user so refraining is not a problem. This was a single moment of weakness and I paid dearly for it. I’m absolutely willing to atone for my mistake and make it right. I am/was in a flying career with a second class medical. This was supposed to be for a pre employment dot drug test. I thought it was odd I wasn’t tested when I was hired a year ago. But didn’t think much of it at the time. It was only after I returned from the vacation I took for a funeral they noticed it wasn’t in my file and subsequently scheduled it. I’m ashamed I didn’t try to work it out with my employer beforehand.
 
Anonymous flyer person said:
It was my understanding this was supposed to be a helpful forum…
Click to expand...


Help and sympathy are two different things. You'll get help here ( @Tools answered your primary question ) but don't expect much sympathy.

For professional help, we have three very senior AMEs here (who should be along any moment), @bbchien , @lbfjrmd , and @WingmanMed , who can tell you what you're faced with and you might choose to engage one of them.
 
Lindberg said:
So did you fall the drug test?
Click to expand...
Anonymous flyer person said:
It’s a refusal if you give a sample that isn’t yours and are found out.
Click to expand...

It sounded like OP was caught using somebody else's urine so it was classified as an automatic fail? Cheating on the test?

My guess is OP did not realize the temperature of the urine is often checked and if you been holding a squishy bag of pee for an hour - well.... Chances of it passing the temp check are not great. I actually thought that hair tests were becoming more common. I guess urine is still the go to test of choice?

This medical forum is anonymous. Well except for the IP logging but that is easy to hit with a VPN. So easy enough to tell the whole story. In all the gory detail there is. Or not. Whatever.
 
I had a patient come in the other day as a new patient. Wanted me to continue their stimulant rx. Part of that for me is review of old records and a urine drug which she was cool with. So she’s in the bathroom for like 20 min to come out with a 50F sample of water and bolts. Oh well.
 
Anonymous flyer person said:
Not everyone is perfect buddy. It was my understanding this was supposed to be a helpful forum…
Click to expand...
This is an internet forum. Nobody here is paid or under any obligation whatsoever to uphold any concept of purpose. Everyone here has their own opinion and their own agenda and the odds that any two of them will match your expectations is close to zero. But if you make an anonymous post admitting to having done something you acknowledge was stupid, you are going to find a lot of general consensus that you are right. But even with all of that, you will still find people that are willing to help you, assuming you don't start criticizing the forum you came to for help.
 
murphey said:
I'm baffled why pilots, who should know better, decide to partake when in Colorado?
Click to expand...
I still chuckle when I remember where I met you, Mari, and Nate for dinner one year. Next door to a dispensary.
 
Daleandee said:
I'm guessing there's a bit more to this story ...
Click to expand...
Anonymous flyer person said:
I am/was in a flying career with a second class medical. ... It was only after I returned from the vacation I took for a funeral they noticed it wasn’t in my file and subsequently scheduled it.
Click to expand...
If they knew he was in Colorado maybe the employer took advantage of the opportunity to disconnect from an employee suspected of having bad judgment?
 
dtuuri said:
If they knew he was in Colorado maybe the employer took advantage of the opportunity to disconnect from an employee suspected of having bad judgment?
Click to expand...


While that's possible, it's hardly the core issue. Had the OP not used an illegal substance there would be no "opportunity to disconnect." And then the OP compounded the situation by submitting someone else's urine, so it's not just one bad decision in a single moment of weakness. He had to plan the deception, persuade someone else to be a cohort, then arrange a mechanism whereby to submit the bogus sample.

That's not a momentary lapse; that's a downward spiral of bad decision making, and it would make one wonder whether this was really the only instance of substance abuse.

Also, consider his statement, "I’m not a frequent user so refraining is not a problem." He didn't say he'd never used the stuff before. He said he's not a "frequent user." I take that to imply he's been a "casual user" for a while.

Some skepticism is warranted.
 
Back
Top