Germanwings Crash & 3rd Class Medical Reform

TedR3

TedR3

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It seems apparent that the Germanwings FO suffered from some sort of medical issue - perhaps depression - which he hid from from his employer and most likely from the German equivalent of his AME.

Although there's no rational connection, I fear this is going to have a negative impact on 3rd class medical reform.

Those opposed to reform will point to the Germanwings situation as an example of what "could" happen if current rules are loosened. Makes no sense, but I don't doubt that this tactic will be used.
 
no worries....the current rules would not have screened it out...case in point, it happened. :(
 
TedR3 said:
It seems apparent that the Germanwings FO suffered from some sort of medical issue - perhaps depression - which he hid from from his employer and most likely from the German equivalent of his AME.

Although there's no rational connection, I fear this is going to have a negative impact on 3rd class medical reform.

Those opposed to reform will point to the Germanwings situation as an example of what "could" happen if current rules are loosened. Makes no sense, but I don't doubt that this tactic will be used.
Click to expand...

When has any medical exam you've ever taken evaluated your psychological well-being? I've carried an FAA medical for 37 years and don't recall ever being screened for depression or had any other form of psychological evaluation.
 
LDJones said:
When has any medical exam you've ever taken evaluated your psychological well-being? I've carried an FAA medical for 37 years and don't recall ever being screened for depression or had any other form of psychological evaluation.
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I agree 100% - there is no rational connection between the Germanwings crash and 3rd Class Medical Reform.

But it's a politics/public relations/public hysteria issue.
 
It is entirely possible that one could make the case that the FAA should be doing more in the medical area to evaluate 2nd and 1st class medical candidates & pilots flying transport and "for hire" operations. If so, that would mean further cutbacks in 3rd class processing at the FAA - with the consequent result that a) third class must be reformed, or b) there will be no more special evaluation of 3rd class (essentially killing GA).
 
wsuffa said:
It is entirely possible that one could make the case that the FAA should be doing more in the medical area to evaluate 2nd and 1st class medical candidates & pilots flying transport and "for hire" operations. If so, that would mean further cutbacks in 3rd class processing at the FAA - with the consequent result that a) third class must be reformed, or b) there will be no more special evaluation of 3rd class (essentially killing GA).
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Excellent point - if they get rid of 3rd class medicals, they can focus on the guys that are the most critical to our safety, professional pilots.
 
bflynn said:
Excellent point - if they get rid of 3rd class medicals, they can focus on the guys that are the most critical to our safety, professional pilots.
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Stop talking common sense. You know THAT will never happen!
 
LDJones said:
When has any medical exam you've ever taken evaluated your psychological well-being? I've carried an FAA medical for 37 years and don't recall ever being screened for depression or had any other form of psychological evaluation.
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That's 'cause they already know yer crazy for flying in those little planes...
 
LDJones said:
When has any medical exam you've ever taken evaluated your psychological well-being? I've carried an FAA medical for 37 years and don't recall ever being screened for depression or had any other form of psychological evaluation.
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You were asked:

Fm 8500, question #17
Fm 8500, question #18m
Fm 8500, question #18p
....
 
As long as the regulatory agency didn't know about the problem because the pilot concealed it, then it's not the agency's fault.

On the other hand, if this pilot had been allowed to get help without destroying his career this might not have happened.

But, if he had recieved help and this happened anyhow, then the agency would get blamed for allowing him to fly.

As far as the third class medical reform is concerned, you also have to consider that you won't be able to take 149 people with you in a Cessna 152. And, pilots have been committing suicide using small airplanes for a long time without the public noticing. So, given that after a couple news cycles, the whole issue will disappear again, perhaps the FAA will feel that "reform" can fly under the public radar.

So it all depends, would eliminating the requirement provide sufficient plausible denyability for the agency? Or will they feel the need to "crack down" and make the situation worse? Is this just the sort of thing the FAA has been waiting for to let them shut down the "medical reform"? Or, is this something to bring the reality of how the medical system can sometimes work against public safety into the light?
 
I've done the full psych eval a couple times for my employer, it took 2 days and did not feel like a 3d class medical at all. .....and they didn't discover my ADD tendencies anyways
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
As long as the regulatory agency didn't know about the problem because the pilot concealed it, then it's not the agency's fault.

........

As far as the third class medical reform is concerned, you also have to consider that you won't be able to take 149 people with you in a Cessna 152. And, pilots have been committing suicide using small airplanes for a long time without the public noticing. So, given that after a couple news cycles, the whole issue will disappear again, perhaps the FAA will feel that "reform" can fly under the public radar.

So it all depends, would eliminating the requirement provide sufficient plausible denyability for the agency? Or will they feel the need to "crack down" and make the situation worse? Is this just the sort of thing the FAA has been waiting for to let them shut down the "medical reform"? Or, is this something to bring the reality of how the medical system can sometimes work against public safety into the light?
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As for your first sentence, regulators (especially in Europe) believe that regulations need to be imposed to ensure that something bad doesn't happen. And if the regulations are not strong enough, then you have to make them tougher.

There is some of the same attitude here in the States.

As for the second part, the FAA will develop regulations to make sure that their administrator doesn't get scorched on the Hill by Senator Blowhard asking "why didn't you have the regulations to prevent this from happening". Some of the medical standards that exist today are there for this reason.
 
When I sent my congress critters letters on this I made sure to emphasize that the exemption would not apply to and has nothing to do with commercial airline flights.
 
oldShar said:
You were asked:

Fm 8500, question #17
Fm 8500, question #18m
Fm 8500, question #18p
....
Click to expand...

You made my point....how, exactly, does that "screen" for anything or constitute an "evaluation"? :dunno:

More Kabuki Theater.
 
LDJones said:
When has any medical exam you've ever taken evaluated your psychological well-being? I've carried an FAA medical for 37 years and don't recall ever being screened for depression or had any other form of psychological evaluation.
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Nope, but if you felt you were having problems and decided to get treatment rather than just letting it fester until you killed someone, the FAA would have pulled your medical and sent you for $2500 of tests and if you were LUCKY after 12 weeks you MIGHT get back flying again on an SI.

Yep, tell me how the current corrupt medical process makes us safer?
 
flyingron said:
Nope, but if you felt you were having problems and decided to get treatment rather than just letting it fester until you killed someone, the FAA would have pulled your medical and sent you for $2500 of tests and if you were LUCKY after 12 weeks you MIGHT get back flying again on an SI.

Yep, tell me how the current corrupt medical process makes us safer?
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$2500 of test and only 12 weeks? Dream on.
 
So - I'd counter with this:

The accident is the exact reason why the medical needs to be eliminated. This pilot chose not to get help, and one potential reason for that is because the FAA would have disqualified him for doing so, despite making himself healthy.

The whole FAA medical process is counter to keeping pilots safe - it makes them hide issues that they otherwise would get treatment for. The FAA kills people to avoid liability.

If this flight were an American flight, I'd be writing letters explaining why the FAA and everyone in OKC was directly responsible for the death of hundreds of people.
 
SkyHog said:
So - I'd counter with this:

The accident is the exact reason why the medical needs to be eliminated. This pilot chose not to get help, and one potential reason for that is because the FAA would have disqualified him for doing so, despite making himself healthy.

The whole FAA medical process is counter to keeping pilots safe - it makes them hide issues that they otherwise would get treatment for. The FAA kills people to avoid liability.

If this flight were an American flight, I'd be writing letters explaining why the FAA and everyone in OKC was directly responsible for the death of hundreds of people.
Click to expand...

Exactly Sulenberger's (sp) message this morning on the TV.
 
SkyHog said:
So - I'd counter with this:

The accident is the exact reason why the medical needs to be eliminated. This pilot chose not to get help, and one potential reason for that is because the FAA would have disqualified him for doing so, despite making himself healthy.

The whole FAA medical process is counter to keeping pilots safe - it makes them hide issues that they otherwise would get treatment for. The FAA kills people to avoid liability.

If this flight were an American flight, I'd be writing letters explaining why the FAA and everyone in OKC was directly responsible for the death of hundreds of people.
Click to expand...
But in government think, that would create more regs, not less, at mer cost to "keep the public safe". Just the way it is.
 
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