Garmin updates and basic BT usage.

Discussion in 'Avionics and Upgrades' started by Jdm, Apr 1, 2020.

  1. Jdm

    Jdm Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I’m trying to figure out the best way to accomplish all the data updates on my garmin equipment. We have 3 new pieces that will require regular updating: GTN 650Xi, GNC 255A, and GI 275. We purchased the yearly update bundle for all 3 units. The problem is the various ways each unit accepts it’s updates. The 650 takes a data card, or BT updates via the garmin pilot app. The 255A only accepts USB flash drives. The GI 275 takes BT or USB flash drive. With this being the case, it seems that there is no common method to update my equipment. I do not have the garmin pilot app, or the FS510 but I can get it if needed.

    I also don’t fully understand the garmin Connext concept. Jeppesen, Foreflight, and FlightPlanGo are all suppose to be connectable via Bluetooth, but it seems that it requires the garmin pilot app to do so? I’m not exactly clear on what the connection would even provide. I currently have Jeppesen Pro, Foreflight, and FlightPlan Go, but not the garmin app. I’ve included a pic of the panel, which also has the following equipment: GMA345, GTX345, and G5’s. The 345’s both use BT but that and the G5’s do not require any data updates.


    Suggestions to help gain a better understanding of updates and general BT usage would be greatly appreciated!!!


    Thanks!
     

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  2. asicer

    asicer Final Approach

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    I think databases update over WiFi and not BT. The FS510 provides WiFi and the GI275 has built-in WiFi.
     
  3. WannFly

    WannFly Final Approach

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    Yesterday Garmin mentioned in their webinar that if there are more than 1 275, all DBs will sync, I can’t remember if it will sync with 650 or not. Most likely not, You will need garmin pilot for Connext to work, not sure about flightplan go, but now that it’s a garmin owned app, that might be in the future or already there. It transfers over WiFi , that’s where the flightstream comes in.
     
  4. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Not true. Other apps like ForeFlight work with Connext as well - It's only the Database Concierge feature that requires Garmin Pilot.
     
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  5. Hang 4

    Hang 4 Cleared for Takeoff

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    I have similar, except for the 275.

    First, nothing updates over bluetooth. With OnePak subscription, you can update all the items, with the different data cards/sticks. You go to Flygarmin.com on your PC or Mac and input each of your devices. It will keep track of when updates are available and let you download them to the respective data storage devices (SD card for the GTN, USB Stick for the 255 and whatever the 275 uses). Easiest thing to do is to have two SD Cards, one in the unit for the current Data and one at home to update.

    What I don't know is if the 275 can update from the 650's data. I have a G500 and there is a setting in it and the GTN that allows the two to share data. So only one card needs to be updated. Perhaps the 275 has the same?
     
  6. Jdm

    Jdm Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I’ve been told that this is true but my equipment literature always mentions Garmin Pilot anytime it references Connext. It’s definitely one of the things I’m trying to understand! When you say they “work” with Connext, what exactly does that mean? What do you gain by doing this, and how is it done? Via BT from the transponder?
    I’m under the impression that it provides the airplane’s waas gps signal to the iPad for accurate use of FF/Jepp pro, etc. but not sure if that’s correct. I’ve also been told that it provides weather, traffic, and even AHARS info if you’re using an AHARS system like the G5’s. Apparently this connection is suppose to take place of Stratus receiver for FF/Jepp pro. Again, not sure if this is correct.

    Hang 4: Thanks, that helps. I was thinking a 2nd SD card would be the way to go. Do you know if there’s any way to use an iPad for this transfer? Maybe a card reader or flash drive reader?

    I appreciate the info everyone!
     
  7. ISU_Radar

    ISU_Radar Pre-Flight

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    Do you have a "straight" GTN 650, or one of the new 650Xi's? The reason I ask, is that the SD card does not need to stay in the unit for the database to work. the Xi's have some amount of internal flash storage that it copies to from the SD card during an update. This way you would only need the one SD card.

    Also, during the aforementioned Garmin webinar it sounded like there isn't any database sync between the GI 275 and the GTN series.
     
  8. Jdm

    Jdm Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Yes, It is the new Xi model. I actually knew about the internal database from watching the Garmin e learning course. Just didn’t realize the advantage of that verses the legacy units.
     
  9. WannFly

    WannFly Final Approach

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    when you connect your ipad via BT to 345, your EFB will get weather, traffic and AHARS data from 345

    from ForeFlights page: https://support.foreflight.com/hc/e...light-and-Garmin-avionics-talk-to-each-other-

    "ForeFlight can also connect to Garmin's GTX 345 ADS-B Out transponder to receive GPS, AHRS, pressure altitude, and ADS-B weather and traffic information with select models. This transponder can connect to ForeFlight directly via Bluetooth, and does not require a Flight Stream."
    more here: https://foreflight.com/connect/garmin/
     
  10. WannFly

    WannFly Final Approach

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    my apologies, should have mentioned DB sync only vi GP
     
  11. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yes, that is correct.

    For example, I have a GTN 750 with FlightStream 510 and a GTX 345, and that gives me the following capabilities:

    * ForeFlight: GPS position and two-way flight plan transfer to/from the GTN; ADS-B traffic and weather from the GTX 345, and AHRS (also from the GTX 345)
    * Garmin Pilot: All of the above (which I don't use it for) plus Database Concierge for wireless updating of the databases on the GTN. That's the only thing I use Garmin Pilot for.

    So... WIthout Garmin Pilot, I could do everything except the Database Concierge updates.
    Without the FlightStream, I would lose the ability to do the two-way flight plan transfer (as well as Database Concierge), but could still do everything else I mentioned under ForeFlight above by connecting directly to the GTX 345.
     
  12. Jdm

    Jdm Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Excellent information. That really helps tie it all together. I’m done trying to get help from Garmin’s CS reps. They have given me incorrect info about my equipment capabilities too many times. They were wrong about a number of installation/compatibility questions. They also told me that I had to have the garmin pilot app to use the BT data from the 345 regardless. Everything I’m seeing here matches my internet research.
    Much appreciated.
     
  13. ISU_Radar

    ISU_Radar Pre-Flight

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    One big caveat is that currently the GTN Xi + Flightstream 510 combo doesn't work with ForeFlight like it does for the "straight" GTN + 510. I'm not sure what the technical reasoning is behind it. I'm guessing it's some sort of business reason knowing Garmin... I also asked during the last webinar and the person who replied said that "they'll bring it up with the product team". A bit annoying...
     
  14. WannFly

    WannFly Final Approach

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    GTN 650/750 only. GTN 650Xi and GTN 750Xi are not supported.
    https://support.foreflight.com/hc/e...d-my-GTN-650-750-or-GNS-430W-530W-navigators-
     
  15. ISU_Radar

    ISU_Radar Pre-Flight

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  16. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    If Garmin knows what's good for them, they'll be fixing that very soon.

    They went full walled-garden initially when it came to EFBs, trying to use their dominance of the certified avionics market to force people to use Garmin Pilot as their EFB. I don't think they realized how big of a hold ForeFlight has on that market, and how much people like ForeFlight. At that point, they smartly realized that it was probably foolish to miss out on the sale of a $17,000 navigator trying to win a $100/year sale.

    ForeFlight works with the GDL90 protocol. Either Garmin hasn't yet put GDL90 support into the Xi models, or they merely haven't tested it enough to call it "supported". In either case, I would imagine that we'll see that support become available and/or official soon. It would be an utterly foolish business decision for Garmin to do otherwise.
     
  17. ISU_Radar

    ISU_Radar Pre-Flight

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    That's what I hope as a soon-to-be proud owner of a GTN 650Xi. Fortunately I decided to wait to install the 510 for a while, so not a huge difference for me since I primarily just use direct-to. Eventually, I can see myself wanting to sync between the two as I get deeper into IFR flight.
     
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  18. Jdm

    Jdm Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Right, I saw that on the garmin site. It appears however that I’m ok to Bluetooth the GTX345 to Foreflight even though I have a 650Xi. This restriction seems to be isolated to the FS510/Xi only but it does raise a question about the GPS signal since it’s be generated by a 650Xi.

    Foreflight says the following: The GTX-345 will allow you to display GPS position, pressure altitude, and ADS-B weather and traffic information. An internal attitude sensor adds the ability to view dynamic pitch and bank information within ForeFlight’s Synthetic Vision view.

    With the above caveat in mind, should we expect the GTX345 to actually provide this GPS position to Foreflight? With it coming from a 650Xi that is? Guess I’ll be able to answer this question soon enough:)
     
  19. Ryan Klems

    Ryan Klems Pre-takeoff checklist

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    As a point of reference, I just tested the Xi + FS 510 + ForeFlight in my aircraft. I had absolutely no issue pushing a flight plan from the phone to panel, activating it, editing it and having that push back to the phone. ADS-B, SiriusXM Wx etc also received w/o issue.
     
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  20. ISU_Radar

    ISU_Radar Pre-Flight

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    Excellent. That makes it sound like it's a "certification" issue between Garmin and ForeFlight. Now I kind of wish I had put in a 510 so I'd be able to test it as well after I pick up the plane.