Garmin Pilot: Android vs Apple

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by smv, Mar 25, 2020.

  1. smv

    smv Pattern Altitude

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    Yah, there are other threads but those I coud find specifically concerning the differences between the two platforms are quite old and I did not want be be shot down for bringing up an old thread from the dead. :D

    I have been an Android user since around 2009ish, so pretty much from their beginning. The last Apple product I used was called an "Apple IIe" so I have become ignorant of most things Apple (except for the fact that more than one mouse button confuses them... ;))

    I have been using Garmin Pilot on Samsung Galaxy tablets for four or five years now (forget exactly when I started)

    Recenty I have been given the opportunity to borrow a Gen 5 iPad to test GP. The reason I wanted to do this was because even though I have a very new Galaxy Tab S4, GP just seems to creeeep along and sometimes gets very unresponsive. I wanted to see if the performance of GP on an iPad would justify the 08. to 1.1 AMUs necessary to acquire one.

    What I learned is that there is very obviously a reason why the Android version is so slow to catch updates and bug fixes (ie: there is an issue with logbook reports that causes the app to comletely crash whenever it is accessed. It has happened from the very begining and I have reported it multiple times but it has NEVER been addresed.)

    It is painfully apparent that ALL of the programmer resources at the Garmin Pilot devlopment branch are being dedicated to adding new features to the Apple version of the app and hardly anything is being directed at even FIXING the broken parts of the Android version, let alone adding new features.

    Given the vast differences in features and performance between the two platforms it is absolutely unconscionable that Garmin is charging anything at all, let alone the full rate, for the Android version of this app.

    It has almost come to the point where my testing may have had an opposite effect in that instead of investing in an iPad, I may just dump Garmin completely and start using one of the many other options out there.
     
  2. lancie00

    lancie00 Line Up and Wait

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    Garmin Pilot was the reason I started using iDevices. Now that I use Apple products, I like them but totally understand why people would want to stick with Android. If I had it to start over, I probably would have gone the ForeFlight route on an iPad just because it's the most popular and the iPad seems more stable. ForeFlight would also give me a cheaper alternative to ADSB in with the Stratus/Sentry.
     
  3. smv

    smv Pattern Altitude

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    Some iPad questions for you:

    How much per year is ForeFlight for the complete IFR package?

    Where the hell is the "Back" button?

    How do I share files (specifically pictures) through Bluetooth?

    o_O
     
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  4. lancie00

    lancie00 Line Up and Wait

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    I just looked up ForeFlight and it looks like the pro-plus subscription is $200/year. That will give you geo-referenced approach plates. I have that in Garmin Pilot and would have a tough time flying IFR without it.

    There is no "back" button on iDevices. The older iPads/iPhones have a single button that basically is the same as a back button but I know the new stuff doesn't. If it has a button, you can double click the button and it shows all open apps which allows you to select the one you want.

    If you're sharing a photo with another iPhone, you can use something called Airdrop. If it's not an apple device, you're better off sending it via email or txt.

    Like I said, there's some things about apple devices that I'm not a fan of. Another thing that I hate it iTunes. It just never seems to work right for me. In fact, I've given up on owning music. If I want to hear a specific song, I go to youtube or spotify.
     
  5. smv

    smv Pattern Altitude

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    Thank you for those answers. Did not know about the double-click thingy. I will give that a shot next time I am using the tablet.

    The only thing I am using it for is to test GP so I have no email or texting set up on it... I had a screenshot I wanted to share but had no way of getting it from the iPad to my account connected devices.
     
  6. lancie00

    lancie00 Line Up and Wait

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    If you have access to a computer, you can connect it and download the pictures. Good luck!!!
     
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  7. sarangan

    sarangan Cleared for Takeoff

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    I spoke to Garmin a while back, and they made it clear they don't care too much for the Android version. I wonder why they even bother releasing a buggy software in the first place.

    Unlike you, however, I didn't take the i-Pad route. Instead, I switched to Avare. Although it doesn't have all the bells and whistles of Foreflight, it is free and has pretty much everything I need. I also get the GPS without having to pay extra for it, or rely on the ADS-B receiver. I fly with Avare in in IFR and in IMC and I don't have any concerns whatsoever.
     
  8. smv

    smv Pattern Altitude

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    Yet another example of Android users being kicked in the nuts while Apple users are fawned over by Garmin. This is an issue that has been happening from the very begining. Reported with each new release but STILL not working properly. This is what happens when I hit "Update All".

    20200327_135346.jpg
     
  9. William Pete Hodges

    William Pete Hodges Pre-takeoff checklist

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    When I was looking to add ADS-B to my bird, my AI suggested the Stratus ES but at the time it did not support Garmin Pilot, only Foreflight on apple tablets. (It also supported Avare, but I was unaware of Avare at that time. ) I do not own any apple products and didn't want to go that way. I went with the Garmin GTX-335. Some months after I went with the Garmin, Stratus got the ok to support Garmin Pilot. So the Stratus supports Foreflight, Avare, and Garmin Pilot, but my pricey GTX-335 does not support Avare, and my attempts to get Garmin to add support for Avare have fallen on deaf ears. The worst part? I have paid an extra $1500 (by the time of completion) to have an inferior product installed in my bird.

    There are those who could argue that this is my fault for not doing my research well enough. But things were happening fast in 2019 and I was FORCED to add this equipment to keep my airplane current enough to keep using the national airspace. Okay... Duly noted...

    Overall the equipment meets the minimum performance required for ADS-B but does not do so in a manner that seems rock solid reliable, at least not to me. I don't have access to Avare, and my supplier of equipment doesn't care that I am dissatisfied and won't even call me back!

    So I am not a happy customer even though I have been a loyal and satisfied Garmin customer for decades. This is saddening at best and infuriating at the most. So if you are still considering what to buy, I cannot recommended the Garmin GTX series under any circumstances. YMMV. You have been warned.
     
  10. smv

    smv Pattern Altitude

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    Perhaps I am just missing it, but I do not see any Stratus units on the list of devices in the Connext settings in Garmin Pilot... How are all y'all connecting a Stratus to Garmin Pilot?
     
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  11. Craig Hammond

    Craig Hammond Pre-Flight

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    Please correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the 335 ADS-B out only. No IN. There is no reason to connect you app to the 335. The only way to get data to your app is to use a portable, which is what it sounds like you are doing. I don't see what your complaint is.
     
  12. Sinistar

    Sinistar En-Route

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    +1

    @William Pete Hodges If you would, please send a screenshot of your Garmin Pilot Connext screen when connected to the Stratus device.

    I also understood it to mean Garmin Pilot would only support Garmin devices.
     
  13. smv

    smv Pattern Altitude

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    Yah.... I am not seeing any Stratus on the list anywhere...

    Screenshot_20200529-141832_Pilot.jpg


    Not that I really blame them much. It cannot be very efficient to try to support every fly-by-night organization that wants to create a new device with their own standards.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2020
  14. Nathan Miller

    Nathan Miller Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I run GP on my Android (Samsung Galaxy S9+ phone) and iPad (latest generation from Amazon for $300). Since I have ADS-B in and out via my GNX-375, I didn't spring for the cell version. It tracks quite well with the position fed to it. I run both my iPad and Galaxy simultaneously and I can transfer a flight plan from either one. I've set my devices to automatically load new flight plans from the 375 once they're received. They sync up beautifully. I started on GP because at the time, I only had android and couldn't see spending good money on hardware "just to try out foreflight". I wanted something to plan routes and once I got used to GP, I started using it in rentals. Eventually I bought my own 172. When it came time to upgrade avionics, I went with Garmin because - why not? I already use GP, so why not get avionics that play well with GP?

    I have to say, I've not had a problem with Android. It blows my mind seeing the post above about expired databases being shown (on the same screen that says you're up to date!)

    I'm happy with my system - maybe I'm the outlier. Most pilots know Garmin, so I feel like should the time come to sell my plane, it's more marketable. I have to echo Pete's sentiments, though - Garmin support has been mixed - see my previous thread at https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/garmin-just-told-me-to-pound-sand.124897/ . At other times, Garmin has stepped up. They make a great series of products. Other than their "dealer-install-only" policy on select equipment, and their unwillingness to mesh well with other software (though I'm told by one of my partners that he has no problem interfacing ForeFlight to the 375), I'm elated.

    To get back to the scope of your OP -
    -Happy with GP on my Galaxy (running android 10, FWIW)
    -Happy with GP on my cheapo iPad
    -While GP is similar on both platforms, some features are accessed in different ways and there is a slight learning curve despite it being the same software
    -If you have a source that will feed ADS-B to GP (including GPS position, which I believe is part of the ADS-B in), go with the $300 iPad.
    -I love running GP on 2 devices
    - I keep my iPad mounted in front of the co-pilot to "big picture" my situational awareness (the 2" screen on the 375 doesn't cut it :rollseyes2:
    - I can keep the iPad depicting the big picture while I dig for waypoint / airport / weather information on my phone which is mounted to my yoke.

    (Usually I'll fly with the iPad in split screen mode. Moving map on the left and traffic page on the right.)

    TestFlightN4808Dresize.jpg
     
  15. William Pete Hodges

    William Pete Hodges Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Okay if I am getting chewed on here then I probably deserve it. I currently do not have Garmin Pilot, or Avare, or Foreflight. If I had to choose one to get it would be Avare because the package is less expensive overall than Garmin Pilot and supports the Android platform I already own. I am aggravated with Garmin because my fancy new expensive transponder will not talk to Avare. It does talk to GP which is more expensive to buy, own and operate than either Foreflight or Avare. It does talk to the Garmin 660 hand held which I do own, but I think the traffic display is somewhat unreliable. It is what it is, but I don't have to like it.

    I got along just fine without any of it for years. But now that I have been forced to buy into it I don't think it is too much to ask to get real value for my hard earned $$. If you all think I'm just being a grumpy old SOB... Then I guess I am.

    I would like to add here that I an not very savvy with all this stuff. I get by but barely depending on who is critiquing at the time. I have used a Garmin 196 and 496 and gotten a lot of good use from them over the years. I now have a AERA 660 and I am still getting used to it, so I have yet to be very impressed. I use the 496 mostly but look at traffic on the 660. I set them both up when I fly, but not comfortable enough with the 660 to only use that. I also think the 496 is a higher quality piece of equipment than the 660. It seems easier to use and has a lot of features, just not traffic. I could be wrong about that but I am not impressed yet.

    All I want from Garmin is to have my equipment be as good as their competition, which happens to cost less. I think I should be able to choose whatever interface platforms suit me, not necessarily what suits them. I did pay for it after all!
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2020
  16. Nathan Miller

    Nathan Miller Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I'm sorry if that's how it's coming across - I see the comments as guys seeking clarification :confused:

    In any case - I feel for you. I bought my plane with a month and a half before the ADS-B deadline. And I'm based inside the DC SFRA. I didn't have the luxury of sitting back and examining the avionics market and making juuuuust the right choice. My decision was rushed and in hindsight, there was a lot that I wish I had done differently.
     
  17. smv

    smv Pattern Altitude

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    Indeed... I regularly fly a Warrior with a Stratus (In and Out) and use Garmin Pilot on both Android and iPad (not at the same time) and would dearly love to be able to connect them rather than mucking about with my GDL-50 all day long.
     
  18. idahoflier

    idahoflier Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    I think that's a fair request.

    That said, all of the companies have their various quirks/policies that aggravate and Appareo is no different. I had a Stratus ESGi installed in 2017 and for the most part it has worked great. However, it is only compatible with Foreflight because in 2017 the ESGi was supplied with a Stratus 2i. In 2018 Appareo released the Stratus 3i that supports the GDL 90 protocol and allows it to provide data to a lot of EFB's. A simple firmware upgrade would open the 2i but a licensing agreement prevents that, so I have to shell out another $500 to upgrade to a 3i. Somewhat disappointing...