Garmin GNS 430/530 waas upgrades ending

Discussion in 'Avionics and Upgrades' started by FORANE, Mar 14, 2020.

  1. FORANE

    FORANE Pattern Altitude

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    Read on another forum Garmin has informed dealers they will discontinue offering WAAS upgrades for GNS 430/530 units. Orders will be accepted through May 29, 2020 and units must be received by June 30, 2020.

    If you have a non-waas unit, now is the time to upgrade it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2020
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  2. NordicDave

    NordicDave Cleared for Takeoff

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    Glad I did mine 3 years ago. The unit comes back PRISTINE like new in the box, with in fact a new box packaged like a new unit. Original plan was to use the 430 to 430W unit for a year ant upgrade. Changed that to a 5 year plan with the FS210 coupled to the overhauled 430W. It's a delight to fly with coupled to ForeFlight with one button up/downloads of flights plans.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2020
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  3. Wagondriver

    Wagondriver Filing Flight Plan

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    What does it cost?
     
  4. Radar Contact

    Radar Contact Pattern Altitude

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    I did it a couple years ago and it was about 5K I believe. Having flown with both (and fully understanding money doesn't grow on trees) I would suggest considering a trade in on an IFD540/440 instead of WAAS'ing a 530/430. After trade in and subtracting what you would have spent on WAAS, you will end up with a much newer/better unit for about 3-5K more total. Either way you are going to have to change the antenna to a WAAS.
     
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  5. NordicDave

    NordicDave Cleared for Takeoff

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    When I did it, the cost was $3K. It's gone up quite a bit. After flying with the 430W for 300 plus hours, I've come pretty attached to it. I like buttons, and the FlightStream 210 makes entering flight plans a no-brainer. Long flight plan entry was the only annoyance I had with the 430.

    There is a dealer mark-up, and many av shops discount ~$300-400.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2020
  6. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 En-Route

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    The real inflection point is when they stop taking them for flat-fee repair, displays and chipsets in particular. That's when the bottom will fall out of this. That said, 480s are still out there providing guidance. The stock of salvage units as people move on to touchscreen units should also serve to float those who continue to run 430s after garmin has ended repair support. Everything dies, this hobby is no different.
     
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  7. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    Deadline is May 29th.

    https://sarasotaavionics.com/whats-new-in-avionics/upgrades-ending-for-non-waas-gns-series

    I suspect most of the upgrades of existing installed GNS navigators in the past few years were to serve as position sources for ADS-B compliance. Now that deadline has passed Garmin may be expecting insufficient ongoing demand?

    $4500
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2020
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  8. SloRoam

    SloRoam Pre-Flight

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    Ive been so so so happy I traded my 430 in for a Aivdyne IFD440.
     
  9. FORANE

    FORANE Pattern Altitude

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  10. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    Can you please elaborate? You've got experience using both; interested to hear what you've seen as the important differences, advantages contrasting the two.
     
  11. FORANE

    FORANE Pattern Altitude

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  12. Lon Stratton

    Lon Stratton Filing Flight Plan

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    Also, unless it comes with a data card, those have to be upgraded too.
     
  13. Paveslave53

    Paveslave53 Pre-Flight

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    When you upgrade it comes with the cards
     
  14. Paveslave53

    Paveslave53 Pre-Flight

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    Does the flight stream allow you to load victor airways ? Can’t to it on the 430. I’m used to the NXI G1000 now.The iPad seems to be able to do more than the 430. Just asking cause I’m installing a FS210 as we speak.
     
  15. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    The WAAS upgrade includes a faster processor, refurbished front panel, current databases, new cards and a new WAAS antenna. Mine came back looking and working like it was a brand new unit.
     
  16. NordicDave

    NordicDave Cleared for Takeoff

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    Yes the FS210 allows the loading of Victor airways. One caveat, they are covered to user way points and must stay within that limitation. For long victor airways I edit out non-critical way points in the straight line to stay within the waypoint limit.
     
  17. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    More likely, they're running out of parts. This wave of upgrades will provide them with some parts for the older units, but it indicates that the remaining lifetime is fixed and dwindling on all of them.
     
  18. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    It's worthwhile to go into settings in ForeFlight and change airways from "All Waypoints" to "Bends Only".
     
  19. SloRoam

    SloRoam Pre-Flight

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    First, the IFD-440 is a touch screen, which is really nice. For instance you see a frequency you touch it and it's loaded. It also allows for you to use the rotating dials, so you have that in turbulence, but the rotating dials have different logic than the Garmin, so they actually make sense to me. The logic of the rotating dials in the 430 change depending on which screen you are on. This was probably my biggest beef with the 430: it seemed like I had to think about how to use it all the time, instead of being able to use it as a tool. The IFD seems to just get out of your way, and help you do what you need to do, rather than adding cognitive load, the way the 430 did for me.

    Another major difference is that the IFD-440 has built in wireless communication with for eflight, which is fantastic for synchronizing flight plans bi-directionally. so I can just enter a flight plan into foreflight before I get to the plane, hit a few buttons when I'm in the cockpit, and the flight plan is loaded in the IFD as well as foreflight for redundancy.

    I also like the iPad app for the IFD, because it allows you vastly more real estate screenwise without a massive investment. In other words, the app allows you to control things like frequency switching, flight planning, or switching transponder settings, acting as if my IFD-440 had a 10-in secondary screen.

    But probably my favorite feature, which sounds silly, but saves me a bunch of time, is the fact that it preloads frequencies as I move through my flight plan, automatically. I guess it turns out that I spent a lot of time while doing flight planning or in the cockpit looking for frequencies as I proceeded through my flights, and with the IFD I find that I really don't do that anymore, because the next frequency I need seems to always be popping up based on the IFD looking in my flight plan and/or my GPS location.

    Last, but not least, there are a bunch of configurable display blocks, which have really useful information in them.
     
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  20. NordicDave

    NordicDave Cleared for Takeoff

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    Thank you for sharing this! This makes loading Victor airways from FF to 430W even more practical.
     
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  21. Paveslave53

    Paveslave53 Pre-Flight

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    Be
    What does Bends only do ? Kinda new to ForeFlight.
     
  22. Radar Contact

    Radar Contact Pattern Altitude

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    In addition to what's listed here, I really like:
    -Geofill: as you are loading fixes it knows where you are and almost always selects exactly what you want after typing the first or second value
    -Having the approach fix crossing altitudes displayed on the map
    -Entering airways without having to define them like in the GNS's
    -typing freq's with the "1" implied on a number pad vs twisting the knobs is quick
    -auto sequencing the missed without the need to un-suspend
    -auto VLOC if you are using those approaches, honestly can't remember if the 530/430 did that but was thinking you have to remember to toggle it
    -the VNAV function is smarter. In my 530 I got hosed one time as I had the VNAV selected for the fix crossing but wasn't turned towards it so the value wasn't correct and ATC hung me up. As I turned to the fix the VSR value started soaring. Also really like having the VSR on the main screen at the top.
    -it shows TOD (top of descent) on the map as a green tick mark
    -being able to load multiple approaches if you want to do that in cruise for your alternate for a busy terminal environment.
    -Being able to remote the transponder through it, don't recall if that is a function on the GNS
    -Having obstruction altitudes displayed on the map
    -Having the "flight plan view" or whatever they call it as you build the route so you can clearly see it while building/entering clearances
    -When selecting the approach procedure for an airport it zooms out to show where you are coming from and displays all the IAF's to quickly select the logical one

    I'm sure there's more but since I haven't flown in so long, I can't remember. :)

    Not saying the GNS's are bad by any stretch, their popularity and longevity speaks for itself and I enjoyed flying behind them in the past. I know people with GNS's can use iPad app's to get around many of these differences (lack of features) but I like having them incorporated into the FMS/GPS box.
     
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  23. chemgeek

    chemgeek Pattern Altitude

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    I'll probably ride my GNS-430W into the ground, then a slide in replacement (IFD440 or whatever there is by then) is in my future. However, it is immediately apparent that current avionics have vastly superior screens, including touch control. These screens can display more information more clearly, and are driven by faster processors. Shoot, even my NGT-9000 has a higher res screen than my GNS-430W.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2020
  24. Paveslave53

    Paveslave53 Pre-Flight

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    Heck G1000s are old now. If I get in a non NXI I’m like why is this so slow!!!!!!
     
  25. GaryV

    GaryV Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I sent my 430 in for a waas upgrade about two weeks ago so it should be back any day. I considered moving to an IFD440 but that’s an additional $6000 that I didn’t want to spend right now.

    I like the added features the 440 comes with but have been flying with the 430 for a long time and I’m comfortable with using it in hard IFR. For me that makes the 440’s added capabilities nice-to-have, need-to-have.
     
  26. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    It's easiest to illustrate this with an example - In this case, V170 from Dells to Badger:

    Screen Shot 2020-03-18 at 5.07.51 PM.jpg

    The airway proceeds from DLL on the 094 radial through WREST to RANDO, where it intersects the BAE 302 radial and proceeds through EWAWI and WIDKI to BAE.

    If you have Airways in ForeFlight set to "All Fixes" your nav log will look like this:
    DLL WREST 094º 16nm
    WREST RANDO 094º 16nm
    RANDO EWAWI 122º 19nm
    EWAWI WIDKI 122º 11nm
    WIDKI BAE 122º 9nm

    If you switch it to "Bends Only" your nav log will look like this:
    DLL RANDO 094º 32nm
    RANDO BAE 122º 39nm

    That makes it much easier to live with the limitations of older GPS equipment, especially if you can't transmit the flight plan from the iPad to the GPS - The same route is defined using fewer waypoints.
     
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  27. Paveslave53

    Paveslave53 Pre-Flight

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    Got it also making it basically a loaded airway on the 430 from the FS210.
     
  28. N1120A

    N1120A Cleared for Takeoff

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    The worst thing about a 430/530 is the inability to do airways without manually loading every fix, or skipping fixes to only load course changes in. There are plenty of times when I get vectored between airways and I can see where the fix they are routing me to is and I can activate that leg or even a direct to if I have the whole thing in.
     
  29. Ryan F.

    Ryan F. Line Up and Wait

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    That was life as normal for a lot of years... all IFR GPS' worked that way for quite some time.

    In addition to many other advances the ability to load airways was a big selling point for the GTN series. Of course with a Flightstream 210 I believe one can "backdoor" the airways into the 430/530, in that an iPad + FS210 can interpolate and then load all the individual fixes into the 430/530 that way.
     
  30. N1120A

    N1120A Cleared for Takeoff

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    Aren't airways available in the 480?
     
  31. Ryan F.

    Ryan F. Line Up and Wait

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    No idea, never played with one.
     
  32. kgruber

    kgruber En-Route

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    Yes..................the 480 has airways. It was ALWAYS a better GPS than the 4/530
     
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