Garmin Connext: Can it help a GNS be a GTN?

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TomCC

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TomCC
Greetings, first post here.

I am behind the times and have been considering finally breaking down and buying a Garmin WAAS Nav/Com.

I don't have experience with either the GNS or GTN series. From what I can tell, the GNS seems to offer everything that the GTN does, except that the GTN has a better interface and will likely be supported longer than the GNS (whatever that may mean).

Assuming that one has a GNS in the panel and Connext running on an Ipad on the yoke, doesn't the Connext-Ipad offer the same "touch screen" benefits of the GTN, albeit on the yoke? Are there any other functional benefits of the GTN over the GNS-Connext combo?

Thanks for any thoughts.
 
I don't think the FAA will allow you to have an uncertified device like an iPad feeding a certified device like a GNS-series Garmin.
 
Interesting idea! From Garmin: With the Flight Stream 210, you can even graphically create flight plans from the comfort of your FBO and then transfer them to your GTN and GNS series avionics within seconds of powering them on. If ATC amends your flight plan, simply make the changes on your mobile device and sync them again in flight.
 
Ron Levy said:
I don't think the FAA will allow you to have an uncertified device like an iPad feeding a certified device like a GNS-series Garmin.
Click to expand...

BTW, they've let you use uncertified hands to enter flight plans into certified gear in the past. This is probably a step forward! :D
 
Ron Levy said:
I don't think the FAA will allow you to have an uncertified device like an iPad feeding a certified device like a GNS-series Garmin.
Click to expand...

Someone the red board pointed out to me that the SL-30 could take input from a handheld GPS for frequency selection.

Yes, this is the future. About friggin time.
 
Yup. This was actually one of the quieter but neat things at OSH this year was the non-announcement that an iPad can basically replace the Garmin 500 also, if you think about it. Garmin GPS in the panel, iPad playing the role of "big extra display".
 
Where does one adjust the barometric pressure setting on an iPad?
 
TomCC said:
Greetings, first post here.

I am behind the times and have been considering finally breaking down and buying a Garmin WAAS Nav/Com.

I don't have experience with either the GNS or GTN series. From what I can tell, the GNS seems to offer everything that the GTN does, except that the GTN has a better interface and will likely be supported longer than the GNS (whatever that may mean).

Assuming that one has a GNS in the panel and Connext running on an Ipad on the yoke, doesn't the Connext-Ipad offer the same "touch screen" benefits of the GTN, albeit on the yoke? Are there any other functional benefits of the GTN over the GNS-Connext combo?

Thanks for any thoughts.
Click to expand...

You have a pretty good grasp, how ever there is one feature the GTN has that the GNS doesn't and that is Victor Airways. Also do not underestimate the improvement in the interface, the GTN is vastly superior not only in physical function but in software architecture logic. The value of being able to rubberband a clearance amendment is impossible to overestimate.

Garmin is adding a Bluetooth capability so you can upload a Garmin Pilot produced flight plan on your iPad or Android device up to either the GNS or GTN series radios. I don't know if it will be able to affect a running program.
 
acluffpoa said:
Where does one adjust the barometric pressure setting on an iPad?
Click to expand...

Use the interface control for the air data computer. All the iPad is is a spare software controller. All the panel functionality still exists, this is just a remote control/input/display for it is all. You can use it if you have it for some extra benefit, but you don't need it to perform the defined required operations.

I bet people are happy Garmin based off a standard NT platform now huh?
 
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What about uncertified SDS cards? Or uncertified USB cables? Silly..

GTN are the newer, less complex to use, sometimes touch screen interface.The GNS are older models...your choice based on price and ease of use.
 
Henning said:
You have a pretty good grasp, how ever there is one feature the GTN has that the GNS doesn't and that is Victor Airways.
Click to expand...

Looks like the Connext system takes take of that too...

"Customers may also incorporate Victor airway navigation into flight plans using the Flight Stream 210 and Garmin Pilot. With a few simple taps within Garmin Pilot, routes, waypoints and airway intersections are quickly transferred to a 430W/530W navigator."
 
RussR said:
Looks like the Connext system takes take of that too...

"Customers may also incorporate Victor airway navigation into flight plans using the Flight Stream 210 and Garmin Pilot. With a few simple taps within Garmin Pilot, routes, waypoints and airway intersections are quickly transferred to a 430W/530W navigator."
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Cool, is it available yet? Can you use it to modify an active flight plan?
 
Henning said:
Cool, is it available yet? Can you use it to modify an active flight plan?
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Not sure on availability but it specifically says you can update the active plan. Watch the video. Lots of info there.
 
Thanks all for the replies.

My "issue" with the GTN series is primarily that the integrated systems are fairly non-cost effective (assuming you wanted to realize the benefit of the larger display). The GTN's integrated ADS-B, transponder, audio-panel, XM weather system receiver are all more expensive (and less capable, namely in ADS-B out) than what one can purchase apart from the GTN.

For example the GNS-430W route offers:
-"in the panel legal" WAAS and ADS-B out (if using a KT74)
-KT74 $1500 less than the GTX330ES
-Less expensive external audio panel options
-Many portable ADS-B/XM weather in ~mobile receivers available for a fraction of the cost of a GDL-88
-Redundancy of not having all the peripherals relying on a single GTN display

Plus it seems that the GTN750 is having some teething problems?
 
Ron Levy said:
No, I hadn't. Thanks for the link. :)



But what I don't see in that press release is anything saying this is FAA certified rather than just a "forward-looking statement". Anyone have anything on that?
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I suspect they'll just say the iPad is for "situational awareness only" and tell you to look at the panel mounted certified unit for certified data.
 
Ron Levy said:
No, I hadn't. Thanks for the link. :)

But what I don't see in that press release is anything saying this is FAA certified rather than just a "forward-looking statement". Anyone have anything on that?
Click to expand...
AFaIK, the only limitation similar to what you were thinking is about nav signals feeding autopilots.
 
Ron Levy said:
No, I hadn't. Thanks for the link. :)

But what I don't see in that press release is anything saying this is FAA certified rather than just a "forward-looking statement". Anyone have anything on that?
Click to expand...

What needs to be "certified" about it? The FlightStream boxes apparently do have TSO compliance.

As to transferring flight plan data, I don't see any requirement for any input to be certified anymore than you need to be certified to key it into the panel unit manually. Other than transferring the waypoints and streaming GDL88 data, I'm not sure that there is much else there.

With that being said, all of this capability requires the use of Garmin Pilot on the tablet. I'm presently evaluating Garmin Pilot vs. ForeFlight (for the third year in a row), and while Garmin has made progress with Pilot, it stacks up rather poorly against ForeFlight as an EFB. In particular, there are many inaccuracies on the vector charts, TFR/SUA information, and airport information, and those have been my grips every year I've evaluated Pilot. I really wish they'd standardize on a "clean" set of data across their product lines, as it would make Pilot a much better EFB product.


JKG
 
JimNtexas said:
Hasn't Aspen had a connected panel option for several years now?
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It has and worked with the GNS series but not with the GTN (Aspen issued a customer letter stating their relationship challenges with Garmin).

It is considered an input device and the responsibility still resides with the pilot that the information you submitted is accurate. The box receiving the data needs to be reviewed for accuracy.

In my mind, no different than typing in the wrong identifier in the navigator. I actually thinks it helps minimize errors by allowing you to review your route in the app before submission. Much easier to see the whole route this way and on a bigger screen.
 
JGoodish said:
What needs to be "certified" about it? The FlightStream boxes apparently do have TSO compliance.



As to transferring flight plan data, I don't see any requirement for any input to be certified anymore than you need to be certified to key it into the panel unit manually. Other than transferring the waypoints and streaming GDL88 data, I'm not sure that there is much else there.



With that being said, all of this capability requires the use of Garmin Pilot on the tablet. I'm presently evaluating Garmin Pilot vs. ForeFlight (for the third year in a row), and while Garmin has made progress with Pilot, it stacks up rather poorly against ForeFlight as an EFB. In particular, there are many inaccuracies on the vector charts, TFR/SUA information, and airport information, and those have been my grips every year I've evaluated Pilot. I really wish they'd standardize on a "clean" set of data across their product lines, as it would make Pilot a much better EFB product.





JKG
Click to expand...


I went back and forth for 2 years with Garmin Pilot and ForeFlight. Owning a GTN series, the GUI on the Pilot looks and feels better to me than ForeFlight does.

I think both of these apps have their pros and cons but sure do make it a lot easier than flying around with a case full of charts...
 
Marauder said:
I went back and forth for 2 years with Garmin Pilot and ForeFlight. Owning a GTN series, the GUI on the Pilot looks and feels better to me than ForeFlight does.

I think both of these apps have their pros and cons but sure do make it a lot easier than flying around with a case full of charts...
Click to expand...

I decided to re-evaluate Pilot because I am considering a Garmin panel upgrade, and was also considering the FlightStream as part of that upgrade. The fact that the operating logic is similar to the GTN series I viewed as a bonus.

While Pilot is more cumbersome than ForeFlight for flight planning, it is much easier to use in flight, in my opinion. It is MUCH, MUCH easier to use on the iPhone, where ForeFlight's implementation is horrible when compared with the iPad. However, if the data in Pilot isn't reliably complete and accurate (and it is not), then it materially impacts the usefulness of Pilot as a tool. Pilot also seems to be slightly less stable (i.e. more crash-prone) than ForeFlight, at least for me.

Right now, I'm leaning toward typing in my own clearances and keeping ForeFlight/Stratus as the EFB and large-screen display device. Garmin has improved the data in Pilot, but it's taken the two years to do it, and it's still not even remotely close to as useful as ForeFlight.


JKG
 
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GNS is going to become impossible to source rather soon. With ADSB installs increasing, rather soon the GTN will be your only option for low end certified GPS from Garmin.

A GTN 650 and a GDL88 was just quoted to me at $21k installed. Pull out the GDl and it's around $16k ish just for the 650.
 
Unit74 said:
A GTN 650 and a GDL88 was just quoted to me at $21k installed. Pull out the GDl and it's around $16k ish just for the 650.
Click to expand...

Do you know if a Navworx ADS600-B is compatible with a GTN650?
 
OkieAviator said:
Do you know if a Navworx ADS600-B is compatible with a GTN650?
Click to expand...

Emailed the company and was told "You will be able to receive traffic only due to the Garmin proprietary protocol. To receive the traffic alerts you will need to order the ARINC 429 option when you order the ADS600-B."
 
Jeff Oslick said:
Someone the red board pointed out to me that the SL-30 could take input from a handheld GPS for frequency selection.

Yes, this is the future. About friggin time.
Click to expand...
interesting....how? afaik there's no connector on the front nor wifi on the sl 30.
 
I have a GNS430W, installed new in 2012, GDL39-3D with ADS-B In Wx, traffic and Synthetic vision on the Ipad. Put the flight stream in to interface everything together for under a grand plus install is my way to go. The only difference is that the Wx and traffic are on the bigger tablet instead of the GNS navigator. I think that Garmin will continue to support it's GNS products for at least another decade.
 
SbestCFII said:
I have a GNS430W, installed new in 2012, GDL39-3D with ADS-B In Wx, traffic and Synthetic vision on the Ipad. Put the flight stream in to interface everything together for under a grand plus install is my way to go. The only difference is that the Wx and traffic are on the bigger tablet instead of the GNS navigator. I think that Garmin will continue to support it's GNS products for at least another decade.
Click to expand...

Yeah, and Garmin probably totally screwed over Avidyne's slide in GNS replacement boxes as well. Now there is an even cheaper way to fix the GNS interface problem.
 
Unit74 said:
GNS is going to become impossible to source rather soon. With ADSB installs increasing, rather soon the GTN will be your only option for low end certified GPS from Garmin.



A GTN 650 and a GDL88 was just quoted to me at $21k installed. Pull out the GDl and it's around $16k ish just for the 650.
Click to expand...


You need to get more quotes, miy 650 was $7k installed with a 430 as trade in
 
I know this is beating a dead horse but good god the cost of these things. I could buy 10 ipads and 10 ADS-B receivers each of which is more capable than any of the available panel mount options for the cost of one certified panel GPS.

So no I don't want 10 ipads instead of a GTN650... but it seems like it ought to be possible to manufacture a cheaper device that does the same thing. Put it at a lower level of certification and require a 2nd redundant device that IS certified be installed so you can cross check it. There's no excuse for this stuff costing what it does.
 
You can't compare ipad against 650.
The 650 is also a radio
It's also does VOR navigation.
They sell millions of iPads, thousands of GTNs, there is economy of scale

But I agree, it's still more expensive than it could be if regulatory issues and litigation wasn't in the picture.
 
What I'm thinking is just a GPS&ads-b traffic/weather display that can do RNAV approaches and VFR navigation and that's it. Certify it for non-commercial use only and sell the thing for $4000 or less.

Retain a pair of Kx-155s or your favorite old school nav/com unit for redundancy should this scary less certified unit fail.
 
If regulatory and certification issues didn't exist, how bad of junk do you think we'd have?
 
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