Garmin 106A vs KI-206?

[CameronS]

Hi there,

I am doing a Garmin 430W install on my ARC panel C172. Time to make things a bit more modern!

I was able to obtain a KI 206 for $1035 (with 8130 form), and typical 106A's go for around $1500-1700. I am able to get one for $1450 shipped, but question whether the difference in price is even justifiable or worthy?

Can I get people's thoughts on this? Even a preference of why you may like one over the other?

Thanks!

 

[James331]

Sandel EHSI


You'll thank me

They ether work with their own solid state gyros or are just as happy with the easy to find king stuff.

For real IMC ops, you won't find many serious IMC ships that don't use some type of HSI/EHSI.


Very happy with mine.

 

[bnt83]

Hi there,

I am doing a Garmin 430W install on my ARC panel C172. Time to make things a bit more modern!

I was able to obtain a KI 206 for $1035 (with 8130 form), and typical 106A's go for around $1500-1700. I am able to get one for $1450 shipped, but question whether the difference in price is even justifiable or worthy?

Can I get people's thoughts on this? Even a preference of why you may like one over the other?

Thanks!

Annunciators in the GI106A win over the KI206.

 

[bnt83]

Sandel EHSI


You'll thank me

They ether work with their own solid state gyros or are just as happy with the easy to find king stuff.

For real IMC ops, you won't find many serious IMC ships that don't use some type of HSI/EHSI.


Very happy with mine.

I'd be tempted to obtain a field approval for the $1000 garmin G5 + $500 box for interfaces and set it to the HSI page and put a big fat placard near it "ADVISORY ONLY" just like all this other stuff such as synthetic vision, ADS-B weather and traffic, AOA etc, is "advisory only".

 

[CameronS]

Annunciators in the GI106A win over the KI206.

Considering the GPS will annunciate the mode, is this really that necessary or worth the extra cash, especially in a panel design as small as a 172?

 

[James331]

I'd be tempted to obtain a field approval for the $1000 garmin G5 + $500 box for interfaces and set it to the HSI page and put a big fat placard near it "ADVISORY ONLY" just like all this other stuff such as synthetic vision, ADS-B weather and traffic, AOA etc, is "advisory only".

For the certified version it's another grand, but I've been eyeing the G5 too, mainly just to replace my vac AI and ditch my entire vac system.

I like having my gyros a little separate, I'd never go aspen or similar for IMC ops, personally i think having the EHSI and a G5 up top, with my dual GNSs and one analog nav head is about perfect for my ideal IMC rig.

 

[denverpilot]

Sandel EHSI


You'll thank me

They ether work with their own solid state gyros or are just as happy with the easy to find king stuff.

For real IMC ops, you won't find many serious IMC ships that don't use some type of HSI/EHSI.


Very happy with mine.

I like flying behind the Sandel in the Seminole when it was working.

I *hated* the two trips to the factory it took to get it working right this summer, and got to see the price tag on those repairs also. Uggggggly.

Also if you read the failure modes carefully it will NOT act as a regular DG if it's magnetic flux box feeding and setting the DG fails. If one has the panel space, I'd install another regular DG somewhere if dispatch reliability is needed. We negotiated with a DPE to do a Commercial ride without a working DG -- turns out we didn't need to actually do it, scheduling problems came up that bumped the ride back so a loaner could be reinstalled AGAIN.

That LCD projection technology is getting a little long in the tooth. I'd expect some higher failure rates going forward. Make sure to ask Sandel what their repair rates are.

Like the unit. Great depiction of things, love being able to set a pointer-to-station on top of the HSI, it does waypoints and all sorts of stuff real well when integrated correctly... but I wouldn't buy one. I'd roll the dice on Aspen's reliability in that digital display HSI market before sinking money into the older Sandel technology.

ESPECIALLY since they didn't get the very expensive repair right the first time. Not confidence inspiring that their bench test jigs are set up right. AND, if you're going to do a loaner program anyway... just do what Garmin does, just keep refurb inventory and swap. Don't bother with a dual remove and replace. Just do one.

 

[James331]

Haven't had any trouble with mine.

That said, having to repair my Sandel is way less spendy than relying on one screen and having it go TU in actual, I'd rather pay Sandel, but again, came with the plane and it's been a real sweetheart nav head in my experience.

 

[CameronS]

I actually have a G5 on order and going in at the same time as my 430aw. Pretty excited about it after seeing one in person already.

That said, I've looked into the Sandel and prices seem step for old tech. You're still looking at 3.5-4.5k on a used 3308 including the flux/gyro, then to get the software to WAAS it's another $3k or so.

Truth is I have Foreflight with AHRS and won't necessarily be doing crazy IFR in a 172. I'm not so sure the Sandel is for me.

That brings me back to the original question...106A vs 206. Thoughts?

 

[Ryan F.]

I have a DG in my ship, which is definitely a very serious IMC machine, despite the fact I don't have an HSI. For awhile now I've been toying with ugrading to an HSI.

I investigated the Sandel EHSI idea fairly extensively and finally discarded it. The cost is too high, the tech is too outdated, the maintenance is too spendy. It just doesn't make sense when you compare it to Aspen or, we all hope, the G5 HSI which I've been told IS in the works (unofficially, but I have it on very good authority.)

I think in the next 1-3 years we're going to see a mini-explosion of low cost STC'd panel equipment under the Accessible Safety banner. If you're on the fence, maybe give it a little more time. As soon as low-cost EHSIs hit the market the already devalued Sandel units will be close to worthless.

 

[Ryan F.]

I'd be tempted to obtain a field approval for the $1000 garmin G5 + $500 box for interfaces and set it to the HSI page and put a big fat placard near it "ADVISORY ONLY" just like all this other stuff such as synthetic vision, ADS-B weather and traffic, AOA etc, is "advisory only".

Or you could just wait for the STC'd G5 HSI to be introduced. Then you wouldn't deal with all of those issues.

 

[bnt83]

Or you could just wait for the STC'd G5 HSI to be introduced. Then you wouldn't deal with all of those issues.

I have not heard of such a thing in work.

Just the other day a thread was started about doom & gloom of GA and all I can say is things have never been more interesting in the almost 10 years I've been getting a steady paycheck in the business, and closer to 15 years I've been flying.

 

[Ryan F.]

I have not heard of such a thing in work.

Correct. It has not been announced, and I do not have any inkling of when it will be announced. But via backchannel sources I have good reason to believe it is very much in process.

Just the other day a thread was started about doom & gloom of GA and all I can say is things have never been more interesting in the almost 10 years I've been getting a steady paycheck in the business, and closer to 15 years I've been flying.

Amen, brother! 26 years, 5 type ratings and 16 years of aircraft ownership for me and this last year has been my favorite so far. I'm really excited to see what new toys will be made available to GA pilots in the next couple of years. I have high hopes!

 

[Unit74]

Unless you are just swapping out HSIs and Flux units, who the eff would actually install one these days? That's completely foolish when you figure of what it's gonna cost, fresh install.

There are modern options that blow it out the door for about the same money.

 

[JoeBradSEA]

Hi there,

I am doing a Garmin 430W install on my ARC panel C172. Time to make things a bit more modern!

I was able to obtain a KI 206 for $1035 (with 8130 form), and typical 106A's go for around $1500-1700. I am able to get one for $1450 shipped, but question whether the difference in price is even justifiable or worthy?

Can I get people's thoughts on this? Even a preference of why you may like one over the other?

Thanks!

Both indicators are good as long as you can get a KI-206 above SN 10000. Older KI-206s were made with a internal plastic frame. They can break even in shipping. I've pulled KI-206s from boxes with the OBS floating around loose inside. Later production KI-206s were manufactured with a metal frame. All GI-106A indicators are mostly metal and always made that way. The only possible downside to the GI-106A is that, in most cases, there is only factory repair available if something happens to it. That flat rate is $500 currently. Almost any avionics shop can test and repair a KI-206. Lastly, the GI-106A has GPS annunciator, the KI-206 does not. They are fairly easy to work on. Let me know if you have any other questions. I know both indicators fairly well.

 

[JoeBradSEA]

I actually have a G5 on order and going in at the same time as my 430aw. Pretty excited about it after seeing one in person already.

That said, I've looked into the Sandel and prices seem step for old tech. You're still looking at 3.5-4.5k on a used 3308 including the flux/gyro, then to get the software to WAAS it's another $3k or so.

Truth is I have Foreflight with AHRS and won't necessarily be doing crazy IFR in a 172. I'm not so sure the Sandel is for me.

That brings me back to the original question...106A vs 206. Thoughts?

Keep in mind the SN3308 display is no longer supported by Sandel. If you go the EHSI route, look at their SN3500 instead. Still supported and you can find used, certified units out there on the market.

 

[JoeBradSEA]

Or you could just wait for the STC'd G5 HSI to be introduced. Then you wouldn't deal with all of those issues.

I agree with that. The TSOd G5 that with the AML STC is $2149 retail.

 

[JoeBradSEA]

Considering the GPS will annunciate the mode, is this really that necessary or worth the extra cash, especially in a panel design as small as a 172?

A very cheap option is the old KNI-520 which I've seen with the Garmin navigators. You can find them $500 and below but they are a risk since King no longer supports them with most service parts if they break.

 

[thomasdr72]

I agree with that. The TSOd G5 that with the AML STC is $2149 retail.

Do you mean we expect the TSOd G5 with the HSI option that might come in the future? AFAIK, the TSOd G5 currently won't act as a CDI or HSI from what I've seen. (I'm not 100% on it).

 

[Ryan F.]

Do you mean we expect the TSOd G5 with the HSI option that might come in the future? AFAIK, the TSOd G5 currently won't act as a CDI or HSI from what I've seen. (I'm not 100% on it).

Correct. The current STC'd G5 model cannot be used as an HSI, although it's possible to flip it into HSI mode depending on how it's configured. Without heading input it's not particularly useful, however.

I believe the G5 HSI is in development but you won't find any official word on that. That's just what I found through some internal dialogue with some folks in the know. Could be wrong, but I'm betting not.

 

[bnt83]

Do you mean we expect the TSOd G5 with the HSI option that might come in the future? AFAIK, the TSOd G5 currently won't act as a CDI or HSI from what I've seen. (I'm not 100% on it).

There is no TSO G5. The STC is the installation approval for the non-TSO product. To return to service a certified airplane with the G5 installed per STC, its locked into artificial horizon mode with no way to interface additional equipment other than a GPS via the ONLY RS232 channel available. Log onto Garmin and read the Approved Airplane Flight Manual Supplement to clear up questions.

It requires an additional box to add interfaces, the GAD29. As far as I know the GAD29 cannot accept analog signals from a KX155 for example.



Assuming the GAD-29 and HSI page is ever added to an STC how much you wanna bet it will only be for Garmin products speaking a Garmin code?

 

[thomasdr72]

There is no TSO G5. The STC is the installation approval for the non-TSO product.

Assuming the GAD-29 and HSI page is ever added to an STC how much want to make a bet it will only be for Garmin products?

Yep, sorry... I should have chosen my words better. The STC'd version is what I really mean...

 

[Ryan F.]

I get TSO and STC confused myself at times.

 

[JoeBradSEA]

The certified G5 can currently only replace an attitude indicator or a turn coordinator. On the experimental version, it can do more - HSI/backup display/LPV glide paths etc. Most likely, Garmin will have additional certification approvals and more features forthcoming.