G5 AI converter to drive century IIIC?

Discussion in 'Avionics and Upgrades' started by aiu0462, Sep 28, 2018.

  1. aiu0462

    aiu0462 Filing Flight Plan

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    Any chance Garmin G5 AI will be able to drive a a Century IIIC? May have to do Aspen.
     
  2. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    No.
     
  3. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    No. The G5 AI does not feet attitude to any autopilot, so if you have an attitude-based autopilot (as opposed to rate-based ones like S-TEC), you need to have an attitude source that works with your autopilot.

    The G5 HSI with the GAD29B can drive the HDG and NAV modes of compatible autopilots, and that list is pretty extensive.
     
  4. bradp

    bradp Filing Flight Plan

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    The only thing you could do is move the CIII AI to the turn coordinator position and keep it in the panel as long as it doesn’t have a flight director.
     
  5. Clip4

    Clip4 En-Route

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    For enough money I can integrate an old Western rotary phone to your smart phone, but you still have obsolete equipment.

    upload_2018-10-9_7-29-0.jpeg
     
  6. Russell MacDonald

    Russell MacDonald Filing Flight Plan

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    As you may know, the G5 interfaces to many different analog autopilots using the GAD29B converter. I have copied only the Century autopilots that will interface from page 128 of the G5 installation manual:

    *** Quote ***
    5.15 GAD 29B Interface to Non-Garmin Autopilots

    This section only applies to installations using a GAD 29B data converter and an interface to
    one of the autopilots listed in Table 5-1.

    Table 5-1: Non-Garmin Autopilots

    Century 1C388*
    Century 1C388M*
    Century 1C388C*
    Century 1C388MC*
    Century 1C388-2*
    Century 1C388-3*
    Century 2000
    Century 21
    Century 31
    Century 41
    Century IV
    * Radio Coupler P/N indicated and based on aircraft installation
    could be interfaced in a Century II or III.
    *** Unquote***

    Russ
     
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  7. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    What you're missing is that these autopilots interface to the G5 *HSI*. The G5 *AI* does not supply attitude information to any autopilots at all, so if you have an attitude-based autopilot, you need to keep your existing AI and its power source, which kind of defeats the whole purpose of the G5 for many of us. In my case, we have an aging KI-256 that occasionally decides to get a little lazy on a long flight, hooked to a KFC 150 autopilot. Our only options for replacing the KI-256 are to put in an overhauled KI-256 (and keep the vacuum system), or replace it with an Aspen, G500, or G500 TXi. The KI-300 is vaporware, and nothing else will provide attitude to the KFC 150.

    At least they've now got the vaporware KFC-230 slide-in replacement to go with the vaporware KI-300 it depends on. :rolleyes:
     
  8. Unit74

    Unit74 Final Approach

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    I talked to an Avionicss shop in Florida who said they have built some sort of device that will work with the AI autopilots for a sanitary G5 install. This was when I was shopping a G5.
     
  9. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    That'd be the GAD 29B converter - But that's what you need to hook the G5 HSI up to the autopilot, not the AI.

    If they certified the AI to drive legacy autopilots, it wouldn't cost $2K any more. :(
     
  10. Russell MacDonald

    Russell MacDonald Filing Flight Plan

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    I understand the difference between a rate based and attitude based autopilots.

    What I don't understand is why Garmin lists the Century III as capable with the G5 HSI. Is the C-III compatible with the G5 HSI (and not the G5 AI)?
     
  11. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    When you get right down to it, neither G5 AI or HSI display are compatible. The only bloody thing that can be hooked to a legacy autopilot is the GAD29B. The GAD29B outputs analog LH/RH error, that is all it can do for old autopilots. The GAD29B is included in the G5 HSI kit.

    The LRU part number of the "displays" provided in the attitude indicator kit are the same as the "displays" provided in the HSI kit.

    If an autopilot depends on a legacy gyro, a G5 cannot replace that gyro. For example, a turn coordinator, my brittain uses a TC, G5 cant replace it. Century uses attitude gyros, G5 cannot replace them.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
  12. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Right. Via the GAD 29B, the G5 HSI can provide heading and track error to the CIII, and is thus "compatible" as an HSI. The G5 AI cannot provide attitude.

    That's a good point. For complete clarity - The G5 can actually replace your turn coordinator as well, but if you have a rate-based autopilot like an S-TEC or a KAP 140, you still need to keep your S-TEC turn coordinator. At least in that case you could still ditch the vacuum system.
     
  13. Russell MacDonald

    Russell MacDonald Filing Flight Plan

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    I understand what you are saying, and I am not an expert on the GAD29B. However, I have learned how it works in my plane.

    In my Cardinal RG, the GAD29B is used to generate the 'Heading' input for my STEC 30 autopilot. The Heading input on most analog autopilots was traditionally used for only the Heading Bug. However, the GAD29B receives Heading Bug data or GPSS data from the G5 and converts that to the analog Heading signal input to the autopilot. When I select GPSS mode on the G5, I have to also select the Heading Mode on the S-Tec 30 autopilot, and then the autopilot follows the GPSS signal. Then, I can switch back and forth from Heading Bug to GPSS without changing modes on the autopilot.

    In the S-Tec 30 system, the LH/RH Error signal comes directly from my GNS530W and goes ONLY to the S-Tec 30 autopilot. That signal can be either VOR/LOC or GPS depending on the mode of the GNS530. That signal does not go to the GAD29B and is not processed in any way by the GAD29B. To track that signal, I put the autopilot in Track mode.

    Have you seen the G5 Installation Manual? It is available on the Garmin site and has schematics for interfacing the G5's with several legacy analog autopilots including the Century autopilots.
    Hope I can post this link: http://static.garmin.com/pumac/190-01112-10_14.pdf

    Russ
     
  14. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yup - This is also exactly how S-TEC's own GPSS converter works. Put the AP in HDG mode, and then there's an external button that switches between HDG and GPSS. In the club, we got a lot of squawks where people thought it wasn't working right, because they were in NAV mode.
     
  15. John Perez

    John Perez Filing Flight Plan

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    Do you have any information on how this shop was getting AI information out of the G5? I would like to know who the shop was that said they were doing this. Do you have their contact information?

    I talked to a technician that works for Century Flight Systems yesterday and he did confirm that Garmin is currently working on a way to have the G5's output AI to autopilots but he did not have a time frame for when it will be available.

    I just had a pair of Dual G5's put in my A36 Bonanza and the shop that did it did not realize that my attitude gyro was still needed for my century III autopilot to work and they removed my Attitude Indicator and the entire vacuum system from my plane so I now have 2 G5's (which I love) and no autopilot :(
     
  16. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    well have them put back the AI and the vacuum system at their dime
     
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  17. John Perez

    John Perez Filing Flight Plan

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    I may do that but I would prefer another option if one exists... I am also worried that the old vacuum pump was damaged in the removal of everything as it sounds like something metal is hitting when it spins and it seems like there is a lot of play in the shaft... maybe that is how these are supposed to be but I have never examined on off of the plane before... plus it was about 40lb of weight savings too...
     
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  18. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    this is a great set up for getting a GFC 500 :D:D
     
  19. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    They're not approving the GFC 500 on the 36 Bonanzas, only the 33s and 35s. They haven't even made the "we're planning on starting these next" list.

    https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/604257#additional

    There are a lot of A36 owners that are pi$$ed - And I would be too. But, they did approve the GFC 600 on the 36 Bos... #ouch
     
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  20. John Perez

    John Perez Filing Flight Plan

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    Exactly! I would just put in the GFC 500 in my A36 in a heartbeat if Garmin was not such a bunch jerks and add the A36 to the STC... I mean really! The A36 is almost an identical plane to the other models on the list for the 500, its not like the GFC 500 is not capable of flying an A36. It makes me feel like they just assume someone with an A36 is rich and can afford to spend the money on the 600, I am not spending 20K+labor to replace my old autopilot... All I know is the first company to come out with an affordable autopilot replacement for the A36 has my business!
     
  21. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    It may happen eventually... The only other piston single on the list for the GFC 600 is the 182 (P and later), and that's on the list for the 500 as well (E and later).

    But yeah, all the rest of the models on the GFC 600 list are twin and/or turbine. And if they can get my Mooney M20R certified (currently in progress), I can't imagine why an A36 couldn't happen.

    I'm kind of surprised that there's nothing from Cirrus or Diamond on the future/planned list. I guess most of those did come already equipped with decent autopilots... Maybe Avidyne has eaten up the Cirrus retrofit market?
     
  22. BGF_Yankee

    BGF_Yankee Line Up and Wait

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    I've "heard" of another shop being able to do this, but cannot verify it. I would assume that there would be a device used for the G500 suite that could convert information...at least that's what I was told on how they made it work. I know next to nothing about the information being supplied by either pieces of equipment, so there's that too. I could've sworn though that in one of my emails to Garmin back when this became a thing that I was told that it was technically possible, just that they were facing some regulatory challenges. Take that with a grain of salt...it WAS a Garmin rep telling me that after they'd just doubled down on the TXi series of equipment and were promoting their new autopilots.
     
  23. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I've heard speculation from an avionics shop that maybe there would be a way to put a GAD 43e in the system, but who knows. I wouldn't consider it a possibility until Garmin says it is.
     
  24. BGF_Yankee

    BGF_Yankee Line Up and Wait

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    I believe you are exactly correct on what they were doing. I'd be interested in trying it if it weren't so darn expensive to obtain everything required! lol
     
  25. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yeah, that's not "play around with it to see if you can make it work" money!
     
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  26. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I think its all hogwash, IDT the GAD43E has any CANBUS inputs on it, which is where the GCF500 gets its data from the G5.
     
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  27. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    To be fair, that conversation was literally the day the GFC 500 was announced, so the person I was talking to had certainly never actually seen one. Like I said, speculation.
     
  28. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    If they are developing the interface, hopefully its a completely separate box and priced accordingly (GAD-29C?). I am not interested in paying for that engineering as I don't own anything that needs it. I just need the GAD29B.
     
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  29. Baron62

    Baron62 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    "I talked to a technician that works for Century Flight Systems yesterday and he did confirm that Garmin is currently working on a way to have the G5's output AI to autopilots but he did not have a time frame for when it will be available."

    Very happy to hear that Garmin is working on an G5 AI to Century interface! I have been holding off G5 AI install until this is available.
     
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