G1000 Simulator Suggestions.

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Looking at RealSimGear and also Redbird for a BATD home simulator (C-182) or are there any other suggestions? Thanks for any comments.
 
I'd suggest an X-Plane 12-based system with the RealSimGear hardware (excellent quality). Not a Redbird fan.
 
The issue with Redbird is that its G1000 is close to but not quite a real G1000. It's not a huge problem, since the basic buttonology is the same, but it means that certain things don't work quite right. The other issue is an airframe-specific one - since the G1000 is an OEM product, different airframe manufacturers choose different presentations.

I don't know how Real Sim Gear handles either issue.
 
The X-Plane 12 G1000 (by authors Laminar) is quite good, even works properly for VNAV stepdowns in instrument approaches.
 
There’s only one reason to fork over for a BATD and it has no relationship to avionics replication.

The only thing I haven’t seen listed here is that Garmin offers airframe specific stand-alone simulators.
 
TCABM said:
There’s only one reason to fork over for a BATD and it has no relationship to avionics replication.
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Yeah, that's more or less true, but even for currency, if you are going to work on proficiency, having a mockup as close to your real airplane as you can has some benefits.

One of the funniest things about the Redbird emulations is that its analog panel has what may be the only KAP140 in existence with native GPSS.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Yeah, that's more or less true, but even for currency, if you are going to work on proficiency, having a mockup as close to your real airplane as you can has some benefits.

One of the funniest things about the Redbird emulations is that its analog panel has what may be the only KAP140 in existence with native GPSS.
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I have a RedBird G1000 TD which models a 172. It doesn’t fly anything close to like what my RV-10 flies like. The RedBird is generally harder to fly so I like that since training becomes harder than the real thing. The fact I have a non-touch G3X and not a G1000 in my panel is not much of an issue because Garmin products have similar operating logic and I got my instrument behind a G1000 so am pretty familiar.
 
tsts4 said:
The RedBird is generally harder to fly so I like that since training becomes harder than the real thing. The fact I have a non-touch G3X and not a G1000 in my panel is not much of an issue because Garmin products have similar operating logic and I got my instrument behind a G1000 so am pretty familiar.
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No question that one of the best things about training devices is that they are harder to fly. Add the lack of biofeedback in the desktop TD models means when you hand fly them you really have to be up on your scan. So regardless of the avionics emulation, they are extremely valuable. Most of the airplane are glass, but the one I take on most longer trips is analog. I always do an analog TD2 session before a trip in it.

And while the operating logic of all the Garmin are indeed the same, the Redbird issue is that they are not fully Garmin. I always point this out when I give an introductory Redbird lesson so the pilot is aware that they are going to come across a "Huh?" here and there. I'll give one example.

I've mentioned my list of common "GPS Tasks Pilots Don't Know How to Do" I refer to for recurrent training in airplanes. One of them is "Cleared straight in.' CLR or bypass the hold." The scenario is that you've loaded an approach with the procedure turn (by system default or choice). The task requires the approach be fully coupled. I inform the pilot I will vector them to the IF. I vector the pilot to a position where "proceed direct [IF], cleared straight in...." is the final instruction. It joined my list when three pilots in a row (including a fairly new CFII) turned outbound in the hold.

Most of the ones who "fail" the task have something in common - training with a Redbird. As usual, there are a few ways to accomplish this, but the most efficient is to scroll to (or tap on) the hold and tap the CLR button. Problem is, you can't do that on a Redbird. The CLR button is there, but it doesn't remove the hold.
 
I’m gonna try that when I get home and see if I can figure out what’s going on.
 
Mark's (@midlifeflyer's) fix for "Cleared straight in" (i.e. select the Hold, CLR, Ent) works just fine (just confirmed) in X-Plane 12 with both the stock C172/G1000 and the Aerobask DA50RG.
 
wayneda40 said:
Mark's (@midlifeflyer's) fix for "Cleared straight in" (i.e. select the Hold, CLR, Ent) works just fine (just confirmed) in X-Plane 12 with both the stock C172/G1000 and the Aerobask DA50RG.
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I know. It didn’t at one time. It was fixed in both 11 and 12, I forget when, but my name is in the release notes :D

tsts4 said:
I’m gonna try that when I get home and see if I can figure out what’s going on.
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All that’s going on is that it’s not a Garmin G1000 and it wasn’t programmed to do everything a Garmin does. It’s not the only one. I haven’t made a list but I’m never surprised anymore when I come across one.
 
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midlifeflyer said:
All that’s going on is that it’s not a Garmin G1000 and it wasn’t programmed to do everything a Garmin does. It’s not the only one. I haven’t made a list but I’m never surprised anymore when I come across one.
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Ahh ok. That’s MS and LockMart then as the Redbirds run PD3.
 
Something to know: the RealSimGear units are just extra screens with a hardware bezel around them. In the simulator, you pop up a screen of your PFD and MFD and drag them over to the appropriate unit. The G1000 logic is provided by the sim software, driven by the hardware bezel.

I see little bad with that and some good in that integration is seamless because there isn't any.

I endorse RealSimGear for G1000 sims
 
TCABM said:
It does. Do you have BATD approval for that device? If so what’s you’re setup?
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See... for Cirrus, Cessna, Piper, Diamond:

FAA Approved Flight Training Devices

Explore the full range of RealSimGear's FAA Approved Training Devices. Offering ultra-realistic high fidelity systems for any Cirrus, Cessna, Piper, and Diamond.
realsimgear.com realsimgear.com
 
wayneda40 said:
See... for Cirrus, Cessna, Piper, Diamond:

FAA Approved Flight Training Devices

Explore the full range of RealSimGear's FAA Approved Training Devices. Offering ultra-realistic high fidelity systems for any Cirrus, Cessna, Piper, and Diamond.
realsimgear.com realsimgear.com
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Thanks. As our club expands, we may consider a BATD. Our current plane is GTN/G5 and the one’s we’re looking at to add to our fleet are retrofits, too. Given that, our pilots don’t see a real good option for a BATD that replicates/emulates our avionics right now.
 
tsts4 said:
Ahh ok. That’s MS and LockMart then as the Redbirds run PD3.
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Yep, it's a PD3 emulation issue.

I did a TD2 session today and remembered another good one. Many CFIIs teach pilots to add an airport or a fix after the approach destination airport. For those unfamiliar, it's one of the methods for setting up in advance for the need to head to an alternate.

For example, you are returning to VDF and will fly the RNAV 5. Your latest weather information is that it is very close to minimums at VDF, worse closer to the Gulf, but much better to the east. So, in anticipation of a missed approach and "say intentions," you add GIF to the bottom of the flight plan after the approach, like so (photo from a Garmin G1000 trainer).

Give it a try in a Redbird ;)

1753467704243.png
 
if you have an iPad, there's a G1000 PFD and a companion G1000 MFD app by Simionic that does OK.
 
Flymy47 said:
if you have an iPad, there's a G1000 PFD and a companion G1000 MFD app by Simionic that does OK.
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I have the Simionic hardware bezels and don't recommend them for simulators. The app logic for the flight sim is in the app and requires drivers to interface. The last time I used it, it didn't interface well to either XP11 or MSFS. The worst offense was that when disengaging the autopilot, you would be severely trimmed up to the point of stalling. In moving I haven't had it on in a while.

The other issue is that an iPad is time limited hardware. I first got mine years ago. The iPads are old enough now that they aren't updating and eventually the app will stop updating. After that the driver will go out of date and won't talk to the sim anymore...it might have already happened to me. When i get there, i'll probably donate them to CAP as handheld training devices for Observer and Pilot classes.
 
midlifeflyer said:
The issue with Redbird is that its G1000 is close to but not quite a real G1000. It's not a huge problem, since the basic buttonology is the same, but it means that certain things don't work quite right. The other issue is an airframe-specific one - since the G1000 is an OEM product, different airframe manufacturers choose different presentations.

I don't know how Real Sim Gear handles either issue.
Click to expand...
I noticed that during my last RedBird session. The club had upgraded the Redbird system and in the process purchased a C-172 G1000 overlay panel. This panel was configured for the G500 autopilot and not the older G1000/KAP140 configuration.

Manually flying a GPS inbound to ILS final, KMHT ILS Rwy6, I expected the needles to automatically change from Magenta to Green before the FAF. They did not. Selecting the CDI button to bring them up.

Howevah... when flying the same approach with autopilot engaged the system did automatically change from Magenta to Green needles. I flew it again, manually flying the approach, when it came time for the turn to the ILS course, I activated, "vectors to final", and the needles went green. Until I can research it further, I'll call it a RedBird Sim anomaly.

The upgraded system included a new PC to drive the system and higher resolution screens. The trim was much smoother and much easier to maintain altitude/pitch control that the previous RedBird.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Just a technical FYI, @BillTIZ. That autopilot is not a GFC500. It’s a GFC700. Many functions are similar but there are a few differences, even in the real ones.
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What sorts of differences? Assuming, of course, you have the gear to exercise all the functions (ie, GTN for VNAV)...
 
flyingcheesehead said:
What sorts of differences? Assuming, of course, you have the gear to exercise all the functions (ie, GTN for VNAV)...
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Part of the issue is that G1000s are not completely uninform from airframe manufacturer to airframe manufacturer. So a 700 may work differently in a Cirrus Perspective than in a Diamond. But two examples.
VNAV in the GFC700 (at least in some earlier iterations) requires you to be within 5 miles of the vertical waypoint in order for arm to move to engage (I have a video where I demonstrate this in a Diamond G1000); GFC500 does not.​
When coupled for the approach, pressing the TOGA button for the missed on the GFC700 disconnects the autopilot; GFC500 does not.​
 
midlifeflyer said:
VNAV in the GFC700 (at least in some earlier iterations) requires you to be within 5 miles of the vertical waypoint in order for arm to move to engage (I have a video where I demonstrate this in a Diamond G1000); GFC500 does not.
Click to expand...
Heh... I've seen THAT one be different in the same doggone airframe on different days (GFC700). Sometimes after you armed VNAV the light above the button would start blinking within 5 miles and you'd have to push it again to get it to really arm so it'd engage. Other days it'd just go about its business. Never did figure out what other conditions led to one or the other!

Point taken about the manufacturers, too. It really is a bunch of similar-but-different systems.
 
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