Fuel tank corrosion repair

ateamer

En-Route
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
2,982
Location
Port St. Lucie, FL
Display Name
ateamer
Home Airfield
FD88
1960 Cessna 175A - during annual and troubleshooting the engine not running smoothly, we found some corrosion - appears minor but needs to be fixed - inside both tanks, and one has a loose baffle that has a broken attachment to the bottom of the tank. Recommendations for repair?

I bought the plane a few months ago. I knew the first annual would be expensive. We also found that the muffler’s internal parts consist solely of a few rusty shards where the internal parts used to be. With those and a few minor repairs/updates, it’ll be a nicer planer after this annual. But I’m still jonesing for another RV.
 
1960 Cessna 175A - during annual and troubleshooting the engine not running smoothly, we found some corrosion - appears minor but needs to be fixed - inside both tanks, and one has a loose baffle that has a broken attachment to the bottom of the tank. Recommendations for repair?

I bought the plane a few months ago. I knew the first annual would be expensive. We also found that the muffler’s internal parts consist solely of a few rusty shards where the internal parts used to be. With those and a few minor repairs/updates, it’ll be a nicer planer after this annual. But I’m still jonesing for another RV.
It's 65 years old and you should expect to find a steady stream of show-stoppers, as it sounds like it has not been well-maintained. Those tanks will have to come out, for one thing, and will need a bunch of new aluminum.

Does it still have the GO-300 in it?
 
It's 65 years old and you should expect to find a steady stream of show-stoppers, as it sounds like it has not been well-maintained. Those tanks will have to come out, for one thing, and will need a bunch of new aluminum.

Does it still have the GO-300 in it?
O-360 with a Hartzell constant speed, installed in 1974 on a Doyne (Avcon/Williams) STC. The prop and governor were overhauled in, I think, 2021, and the engine was majored by a well-regarded shop in 2023. It now has about 65 hours on it - it flew little between overhaul and when I got it.

It definitely has had some things ignored or deferred.

We pulled the tanks already and borescoped them further. The corrosion doesn’t look extensive or really bad, at least, but they need to be fixed up right.
 
Hartwig, the best place to take a leak.

I have one their rebuilt tanks in my plane.
They are experts with cessna tanks.

They can and do cut them apart and straighten them out and weld back together and then pressure test them.
They will give you honest results but it is expensive to ship them your tank.
 
Last edited:
Just talked with Hartwig. Just the shipping both ways for both tanks will be $2500+, not counting packing materials. I’m leery about using a local shop who doesn’t work extensively with aircraft tanks for obvious reasons. If these tanks get botched, the plane becomes a scrap heap because the tanks are unobtanium. No one even has used tanks in stock.

I’m this close to quitting aviation. Just sick of the damned costs and the regulations that hamstring maintaining vintage planes like this one.

I made a big mistake buying it.
 
Wow, 2500 bucks!
Damn your a long way from Minnesota if your in FL.
Times like this I used to drive my valuable parts to where they got to go. But I can't say I ever did a trip that long. 12 hours one way is the longest trip I remember making moving parts around the country.

I'd have to look in my logs to see what it cost to ship one tank from Cincy to Mn. It was a lot, like 600 maybe?
I bought a tank from Power Pack in NV that was a very rare tank for my 1980 172N. I sent my beat up core back(tornado damage), wasn't going to at first because of the damage to the tank and shipping cost. First I was told it was not repairable and was on the hook for a core charge. Was not surprised. I think it was 1200 bucks.
Couple weeks later I get a call that Hartwig was able to repair my core and issued me my core charge back. I thought that was very honest of them.
 
Last edited:
One of the factors is the fact that some aircraft have tripled in resale value
in a few years. So instead of buying a piece of a $25k aircraft you are buying a piece of a $600K new aircraft. So yours is now $75K and rising.
 
1960 Cessna 175A - during annual and troubleshooting the engine not running smoothly, we found some corrosion - appears minor but needs to be fixed - inside both tanks, and one has a loose baffle that has a broken attachment to the bottom of the tank. Recommendations for repair?

I bought the plane a few months ago. I knew the first annual would be expensive. We also found that the muffler’s internal parts consist solely of a few rusty shards where the internal parts used to be. With those and a few minor repairs/updates, it’ll be a nicer planer after this annual. But I’m still jonesing for another RV.
New England Aero Services does a lot of fuel tank repairs. Mostly Pipers, but you could inquire. They are in Danielson CT.
 
One of the factors is the fact that some aircraft have tripled in resale value
in a few years. So instead of buying a piece of a $25k aircraft you are buying a piece of a $600K new aircraft. So yours is now $75K and rising.
It was $104K, probably worth a fair bit more as of today with MOSAIC taking effect.
 
I'd start calling around to local shops. Some might have relationships w/ welding shops and the aviation maintenance shop will sign off the outside welding work.
I've had this happen recently w/ a muffler repair and one shop I used to reseal my tank filler necks said they have a local welding shop they send tanks to for repair if needed.
 
I don’t know how they treat corrosion in old tanks like that?
He doesn’t need a crack welded.
I can tig weld but I would not try it myself on something so rare and corroded inside.
I know of a great chassis builder who made all my aluminum tanks in dragsters that is in Michigan. I don’t think he has experience dealing with corrosion.

What did Hartwig say about the corrosion, can they fix that? And how?
 
We’re hoping now that the A&P and I can reach all of it with a Scotchbrite pad on long-reach pliers, then rinse the tanks, then rinse with Alumiprep and rinse again. If there is more that is out of readh or that procedure doesn’t work, then the tanks would have to be opened.

Lesson learned - I should have regarded this plane as buying an antique, not as a regular Cessna. And I would be averse to an antique because of parts availability. The regs really should allow a lot more leeway on aircraft that are out of production.
 
I'd start calling around to local shops. Some might have relationships w/ welding shops and the aviation maintenance shop will sign off the outside welding work.
I've had this happen recently w/ a muffler repair and one shop I used to reseal my tank filler necks said they have a local welding shop they send tanks to for repair if needed.
My A&P has a contact at a local fabricator who is willing to do it. But he doesn’t normally do aircraft tanks, and if he doesn’t do it right, then the plane will probably be done for, as these tanks seem to be nonexistent anymore. And being that it’s Florida and I’ve had too much experience with shops of various types around here and the prevailing idea of what “done properly” means, I’m not enthusiastic about it. I’ve been told several times by multiple native Floridians that I need to lower my expectations and just accept shadetree results from professionals.
 
My A&P has a contact at a local fabricator who is willing to do it. But he doesn’t normally do aircraft tanks, and if he doesn’t do it right, then the plane will probably be done for, as these tanks seem to be nonexistent anymore. And being that it’s Florida and I’ve had too much experience with shops of various types around here and the prevailing idea of what “done properly” means, I’m not enthusiastic about it. I’ve been told several times by multiple native Floridians that I need to lower my expectations and just accept shadetree results from professionals.
I think you and your mechanic are on the right track.
Clean it out the best you can with nothing more aggressive than a scotchbrite pad.
Of course a good couple flushes.
Methanol is great for the final flush especially if there was any water used during flush.
Find a alcohol racer, he'll have jugs of it. I also make windshield solvent out of it.
Treat them gently so you don't cause any leaks.
Inspect and blow out the fuel lines. Then keep a good eye on the fuel filters. Common sense stuff you don't need to hear.
Good luck with it.
 
Be careful with alumiprep. It's made to really clean the surface for a coating like paint. That stuff is a acid I believe and may cause damage to your tanks since your not applying a coating.
 
Last edited:
When working in marine industry, we repaired dozens of tanks as corrosion was common. There are plenty of ways to repair classic or vintage tanks….. just not in the airplane world as our stuff is somehow special… it’s not.

there are process of internally cleaning tank and then spray coating it with sealer that will out last the plane……doubt it’s prior FAA approved, but A&P has wide discretion of proving stuff for vintage birds.

Any decent fab shop, especially one doing old cars or boats, can cut out parts of tank and weld in patch…that’s FAA approved method, but a bit extreme for just small areas of surface corrosion. They can also separate the tank along seam and you can repair and/or recoat surface, then re-weld it together and pressure test it. I don’t expect cost would exceed $200 to open and reweld back together. This, of course, requires tank be removed, which may be hardest part on old airplane, but doable…..likely do it yourself. In my experience with this,frustrating part is small parts like the skin or tank grounding straps or tie down strap fasteners can be difficult to remove and can be damaged (such as screw heads breaking off) so be ready to drill some screws out and have replacements. Would also suggest spraying areas with long term anti corrosion spray.

If there are multiple points of corrosion, this would be my method of choice…. You could either sand/grind out areas and seal surface yourself , or cut it out all together and weld a patch…..either way, repair will out last the plane.

Again, there is FAA AC for wider approved methods of keeping old aircraft airworthy. Most A&Ps don’t do this stuff anymore and simply source another old part from a salvage yard….which is same age as yours. These vintage tanks are all in bad shape…. Many domestic companies make replacement tanks for vintage cars….you could ask them cost to replicate your tank….it would be possible to get a A&P sign it off, especially as vintage, but you could also get it FAA approved or at least a field approval …..the field approval could be shrared with others if you want to get into selling tanks to other in same situation. I know there will be post saying you cant use a field approval to sell parts to others as method of compliance, but FAA does allow wider methods of compliance and approvals for vintage aircraft…. You may need some additional engineering data and technical mumbo jumbo, but it is a simple part….. I could help you in this regards to advice with this, PM if needed. I expect sharing specific field approvals will be allowed in near future for vintage. Could be a way to offset your tooling costs and make minimum run quantities. I worked on such projects as a DER, and it’s possible without as much start up cost you may think.

Anyway, if you try to keep old planes flying using only strict approved or certified methods, you will go broke. This stuff was made using 1940s tech, materials, and processes….same as car parts, it’s nothing special. The TC holder includes approved methods for repairs, such as a structural repair manual, outlining repair methods,in their type design docs, but you can get other methods approved, especially when new parts no longer available. Good luck. I have used many unapproved but new parts on my 1969 c172 and they work fine, but it has an experimental AWC, so I don’t have todo as much FAA approval stuff…. If I did, and had to pay the certified costs, I couldn’t afford to keep it.

Again, good luck, may the force be with you
 
A bud has rebuilt 3 award winning Waco’s. Things were done differently in the’30’s. It’s not only about the Approvals but re-developing the techniques and skills needed for the task. A great deal of time needed. Some of it as used to obtain both the A& P and IA certs.
 
I know there will be post saying you cant use a field approval to sell parts to others as method of compliance, but FAA does allow wider methods of compliance and approvals for vintage aircraft…. You may need some additional engineering data and technical mumbo jumbo, but it is a simple part….. I could help you in this regards to advice with this, PM if needed.
And here is the post as Part 21 specifically states what it takes to produce parts for sale. However, you could use a Form 337 to document a Part 21 owner produced part. The owner must participate in one of 5 ways but the key is they must have approved data and that is usually where the cost comes in. However, if you as a DER were to offer your services to approve that data like you mention above on a Form 8110-3 say for $200, then ateamer could come away with a brand new and approved fuel tank. But you still couldnt sell those parts either.


I expect sharing specific field approvals will be allowed in near future for vintage.
Duplicate 337s, ie., sharing 337s, were allowed for decades until about 2003. Then due to a handful of stupid people, the Duplicate 337 policy was terminated, requiring each aircraft to receive its own specific field approval process vs the admin only process of a Duplicate 337. I seriously doubt that will ever come back.

I have used many unapproved but new parts on my 1969 c172 and they work fine, but it has an experimental AWC,
You can do the same on current Standard AWC aircraft as well. But the part needs to be installed as an alteration vs as a replacement part which keeps the type design intact. Even the AC 23-27 you reference above states for those parts to be installed as a minor alteration which can be used for all kinds of parts regardless if the aircraft fall under vintage or not. The issue is to find a knowledgeable and willing mechanic to do so. However, not all owners give mechanics an incentive to do so.
 
Fabrication of a replacement part is not a major alteration...
 
Update: A&P/IA got the interiors cleaned up. There was minor corrosion, one broken weld on a baffle (likely from storm damage that resulted in a wing repair in the 70s), and a bunch of reddish-brown residue. The local shop did a nice job of re-welding.

We re-installed the tanks, confirmed no leaks, ran the engine for 10 or 15 minutes, no leaks, good to go.

Not.

He okayed me to put the top skins back in place and said it’ll be as easy as it was removing them (Cessna calls them cover plates - upper wing panel they screws in place). Well, it turns out the tanks are a quarter to half inch out of place and the holes around the filler are not lining up. So we need to move them again.

Plus, after the plane got fuel in it after six weeks of sitting totally empty, the fuel selector valve leaked. Replacing the old o-rings was itself an easy task. The miserable part was accessing it. We had to go through the opening for the flap handle and work around the control and trim cables. Absolutely stupid place for the valve. I suspect that Cessna installed the valve and then riveted the floor in place. It’s 1940s thinking, and I’m sure it worked for 1940s sized people.

Just one more reason why I regret leaving the RV family and stepping half a century backward just to give passengers more room.

As it is, less than a year into owning this plane I’m already in for more than 10% of its purchase price (no awesome deal, it was a decent price for what it has) in just the prebuy and first annual. I’m a bit down right now and wishing I could just be done with this thing and find something designed well within my lifetime that I can afford.
 
Last edited:
He okayed me to put the top skins back in place and said it’ll be as easy as it was removing them (Cessna calls them cover plates - upper wing panel they screws in place). Well, it turns out the tanks are a quarter to half inch out of place and the holes around the filler are not lining up. So we need to move them again.
That's normal, and any mechanic who has done it knows that you have to get that tank located exactly before installing the cover. It takes some fiddling. You can't just plunk it in there and tighten the straps.
Plus, after the plane got fuel in it after six weeks of sitting totally empty, the fuel selector valve leaked. Replacing the old o-rings was itself an easy task. The miserable part was accessing it. We had to go through the opening for the flap handle and work around the control and trim cables. Absolutely stupid place for the valve. I suspect that Cessna installed the valve and then riveted the floor in place. It’s 1940s thinking, and I’m sure it worked for 1940s sized people.
That's all normal, too. Old o-rings do leak, especially once they've sat dry for awhile. Nothing lasts forever. Fuel and age and heat and cold do degrade even the best polymers. As for accessibility, at least you were able to get it out. There are some airplanes with components that appear to have been mounted in the airframe jig, and then the fuselage was built around them. Sometimes access means disassembling a lot of stuff.
As it is, less than a year into owning this plane I’m already in for more than 10% of its purchase price (no awesome deal, it was a decent price for what it has) in just the prebuy and first annual. I’m a bit down right now and wishing I could just be done with this thing and find something designed well within my lifetime that I can afford.
That's normal, or even better than normal. Seen it many times: first annual is a shocker. I remember one guy that spent more than 100% of the original purchase price in the first two annuals. 60-year-old airplanes will do that to you. Sometimes it's better to buy one from someone that's already been through all that and the stuff is all fixed. Costs less in the long run.
 
Update: A&P/IA got the interiors cleaned up. There was minor corrosion, one broken weld on a baffle (likely from storm damage that resulted in a wing repair in the 70s), and a bunch of reddish-brown residue. The local shop did a nice job of re-welding.

We re-installed the tanks, confirmed no leaks, ran the engine for 10 or 15 minutes, no leaks, good to go.

Not.

He okayed me to put the top skins back in place and said it’ll be as easy as it was removing them (Cessna calls them cover plates - upper wing panel they screws in place). Well, it turns out the tanks are a quarter to half inch out of place and the holes around the filler are not lining up. So we need to move them again.

Plus, after the plane got fuel in it after six weeks of sitting totally empty, the fuel selector valve leaked. Replacing the old o-rings was itself an easy task. The miserable part was accessing it. We had to go through the opening for the flap handle and work around the control and trim cables. Absolutely stupid place for the valve. I suspect that Cessna installed the valve and then riveted the floor in place. It’s 1940s thinking, and I’m sure it worked for 1940s sized people.

Just one more reason why I regret leaving the RV family and stepping half a century backward just to give passengers more room.

As it is, less than a year into owning this plane I’m already in for more than 10% of its purchase price (no awesome deal, it was a decent price for what it has) in just the prebuy and first annual. I’m a bit down right now and wishing I could just be done with this thing and find something designed well within my lifetime that I can afford.
RE: the disassembly headache…My AP/IA used to say that he’s pretty sure a Cessna engineer’s wife ran off with an AP, and some of their component placements are his revenge…
 
That's normal, and any mechanic who has done it knows that you have to get that tank located exactly before installing the cover. It takes some fiddling. You can't just plunk it in there and tighten the straps.

That's all normal, too. Old o-rings do leak, especially once they've sat dry for awhile. Nothing lasts forever. Fuel and age and heat and cold do degrade even the best polymers. As for accessibility, at least you were able to get it out. There are some airplanes with components that appear to have been mounted in the airframe jig, and then the fuselage was built around them. Sometimes access means disassembling a lot of stuff.

That's normal, or even better than normal. Seen it many times: first annual is a shocker. I remember one guy that spent more than 100% of the original purchase price in the first two annuals. 60-year-old airplanes will do that to you. Sometimes it's better to buy one from someone that's already been through all that and the stuff is all fixed. Costs less in the long run.
I wasn’t surprised by the o-rings, and actually glad that it happened in the hangar and not airborne or leaving me stranded somewhere.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WDD
Stuff get's old. In a way, glad you found this bad O ring on the ground vs leaking in the air.

This stuff I believe is just part of being a new plane owner. The frequency and size of the "well, that's got to be fixed" drops after a year, and then settles to just the mildly, normal annoying repairs and costs.

Some of the repairs are on things you didn't even knew you had, or much thought about. Case in point, I have to replace the toothed ratchet that reclines / locks the pilot seat back in place because the teeth are wearing out.

Then two months ago, I had to replace the valve seal on the cowl fuel sump drain, which is where the A&P saw the exhaust manifold crack. Before than it had gone 9 months with nothing but oil changes. Stuff happens, but keep the maintenance and repairs up and it makes owning the plane fun.
 
Last edited:
Aaaand it turns out our IA knows as much as I do about installing the tanks and getting everything lined up. With means he’s learning as we go. A hundred bucks an hour and 20 years as an A&P and this is the BS I get.
 
There is ALWAYS something new regarding aircraft maintenance. No one knows EVERYTHING. I’m very deficient with rotary wing but I have wrenched on Super Vees!

A good question in any cases is; “ is the procedure described in the Service

Manual”?
 
  • Like
Reactions: WDD
Interesting. So you believe all 20 year mechanics should know everything about every aircraft task?
Fair enough. But if he tells me he knows how to do the job, I think it’s reasonable to expect it to be done right the first time.
 
Even though folks can write they still put erasers on pencils!
 
Fair enough. But if he tells me he knows how to do the job, I think it’s reasonable to expect it to be done right the first time.
Well, if that is what he said, then BS it is. Me, the 1st thing out my mouth when asked to do something I never did was my disclaimer. Then it was on you if it took us 3x the time amount.
 
I had the Seneca's tanks redone. New England Aero Services. Had a cracked rib in tank #1. $2,500 is REALLY cheap.
 
The costs have gotten to be even more disheartening in the last few years. Ultralights are becoming attractive.
 
3rd
Aaaand it turns out our IA knows as much as I do about installing the tanks and getting everything lined up. With means he’s learning as we go. A hundred bucks an hour and 20 years as an A&P and this is the BS I get.
My IA and I learned as we went on replacing the fuel tank on my 172N 1980 model. Which turned out to be a very rare and expensive fuel tank.
The aircraft was totaled by a tornado in 1990. I suspect they reused a damaged tank in a rebuilt wing?
Because I could hear it "oil can" every time I filled it. Then eventually it started leaking a little at first and then got worse.
f1bb6144-5fcf-4152-ba57-33e17c12449f.jpg
Getting the cover off the fuel tank took me weeks to get all the screws out. I would soak them and get some loose and then re tighten them and kept flying the plane.
It was one of the toughest jobs that I did on the plane. That tank is a tight fit in the wing. There are wood blocks in mine that have to come out to get the tank out. At first my IA was using long pry bar to try to get those wood blocks out until we discovered they were screwed in.
e2c023a4-c490-4800-9c11-697e1675118e.jpg

This tank was beat up and showed signs of leaking at the welds that someone did. This is the crack that developed as time went by. This is the bottom of the tank.
890fd1b4-f34e-40a7-93cd-19f87a55d508.jpg

So at first I wasn't sure if I was going spend the money to send it back? But I am glad I did because Hartwig was able to save it and I got my core charge back. First I was told it can't be saved but a week of so later I got a call saying they were able to save it. That was very honest of Hartwig. This tank is rare and I bet is why they saved it. They get big bucks for them.
It got all new rubber strips top and bottom.
6b8b3c88-f8f6-4aad-8e8c-06be73297f4b.jpg

fed8043f-a1db-4bdd-9be1-037f9a819a90.jpg

I didn't tighten down those straps until I was sure the hose connections and cover fit right. It is a really tight fit. The wood blocks pretty much put the tank in the right location for the cover to fit.
11e7cdf4-7282-4aea-8126-03deb4bbed55.jpg

All new structal screws were used. And of course all the rubber hoses were replaced including the ones overhead in the cabin.
0117a4c8-809f-45d5-9eab-24a7adae37a2.jpg

6c3c32d3-05fb-4d32-a41c-c5d255ca84e3.jpg
 
Last edited:
Buying components means you are purchasing a portion of a $500,000

aircraft and they don’t make used parts. This seems to be reflected in

the rising prices on most aircraft.
 
Back
Top