Fresno Small Plane Crash Kills Mother and 2 Children, 9/7/26

Kenny Phillips

Kenny Phillips

Final Approach
Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
6,572
Display Name
Kenny Phillips
Last edited:
Dad just died an hour ago. Interesting that there is no info on the aircraft and their SM has been scrubbed.

Then friends and family want money now.
 
Ed Haywood said:
I'll just never get used to pilots killing their families. Usually it's the dad. Either way it is horrible.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. A few years back a pilot at our local airport managed to kill himself, his wife, and two young sons in a crash that was entirely preventable. Very, very sad...

It still creeps me out--I had flown there earlier that day.

Tim
 
Here's the aircraft, a Grumman AA5 (TIger):

No flight track on either FlightAware or ADSBExchange for the day of the crash... likely no ADS-B receivers close enough to the airfield to pick up the aircraft for that short flight.
 
Ed Haywood said:
I'll just never get used to pilots killing their families. Usually it's the dad. Either way it is horrible.
Click to expand...
So where are you getting she "killed" her family? Or are you just here to spread fake news.

If it says it somewhere, I guess I missed it, I just see the usual basic info on an aircraft crash. I can think of a long list of possibilities that have NOTHING to do with her intentionally crashing the plane.
 
Ed Haywood said:
This one is more horrible than most. I am a religious man, but sometimes I wonder.
Click to expand...
Two kids, 18 yo daughter and 17 yo son, are the only family members left. Going to be tough for them. :(

As far as the crash, it's a weird one - Looks like they went right into terrain near the airport that they should have known about as locals, and in good weather.

METAR KFCH 052055Z AUTO 22007KT 9SM CLR 29/09 A2994 RMK A01
METAR KFCH 052035Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 29/09 A2994 RMK A01
METAR KFAT 052053Z 00000KT 10SM FEW080 FEW100 29/10 A2993 RMK AO2 SLP130 T02890100 58015
 
M20K said:
So where are you getting she "killed" her family? Or are you just here to spread fake news.

If it says it somewhere, I guess I missed it, I just see the usual basic info on an aircraft crash. I can think of a long list of possibilities that have NOTHING to do with her intentionally crashing the plane.
Click to expand...
I kinda get your point, up to a point. Not quite sure how you worked the word ‘intentionally’ in though. I really don’t think that was the point of the post you replied to.
 
luvflyin said:
kinda get your point, up to a point. Not quite sure how you worked the word ‘intentionally’ in though. I really don’t think that was the point of the post you replied to.
Click to expand...
The comment was "...I'll just never get used to pilots killing their families..."

The comment wasn't "it is a shame the family died" or anything along those lines. It was about pilots killing their family. So to each their own, but sure sounded like he was making a statement more than it is a shame the people died.
 
If she wasn't a pilot they'd still be alive. IOW being a pilot killed them. It doesn't even matter if it was intentional or even her fault or not.
 
wayneda40 said:
Here's the aircraft, a Grumman AA5 (TIger):

No flight track on either FlightAware or ADSBExchange for the day of the crash... likely no ADS-B receivers close enough to the airfield to pick up the aircraft for that short flight.
Click to expand...
The plane was a Grumman Traveler (airworthiness certificate in 1974), which was the predecessor to the Cheetah. So a bit less HP and useful load compared to the Tiger.
 
I did not mean to imply it was intentional. There is nothing to indicate that.
 
bonefishpete said:
Four people in a Traveler isn't that kinda heavy?
Click to expand...
Two of them were kids, and if one of the articles I perused on the accident was correct, the parents may have been burned badly trying to save them... I suspect this was a mechanical or other kind of failure on takeoff, which honestly can happen in "safe" airplanes, with just as tragic results. The mom looked like a pretty reasonably respected CFI.
 
RyanShort1 said:
Two of them were kids, and if one of the articles I perused on the accident was correct, the parents may have been burned badly trying to save them... I suspect this was a mechanical or other kind of failure on takeoff, which honestly can happen in "safe" airplanes, with just as tragic results. The mom looked like a pretty reasonably respected CFI.
Click to expand...
I have worked for many years with two guys who suffered massive burns.

I understand both the parents accepting the agony of the fire, in an attempt to save their children, who were suffering their same pain.

My two friends had 25%, and an unimaginable 90% burns. After millions of dollars of grafts, Mr. 90% came back to work.

I am confident this was a pure accident, whether exceeding the capabilities of the plane in the conditions present, or a small error in pilotage with a plane at the edge of its envelope.

I hope the surviving children do not read POA.
I further hope the family net worth is not negative, and other parts of the family step up with a loving home for them.
 
bonefishpete said:
Four people in a Traveler isn't that kinda heavy?
Click to expand...
Not necessarily. I’ve got over hundred hours in a Traveler, did most of my Commercial and Instrument in them. Also a couple trips with four people. All slim folk like these people were and tanks not full. They were pretty new planes at the time. So I’m not ready to throw her under the bus yet for making a poor decision to even attempt the flight. All kinds of things could have happened to reduce power on departure, or other issues. Time will tell.
 
catmandu said:
If my Father-in-law had just never learned to drive, my Mother-in-law and Sister-in-law would still be alive?
Click to expand...
How would I know? I was explaining a figure of speech not pretending to be clairvoyant.
 
dmspilot said:
How would I know? I was explaining a figure of speech not pretending to be clairvoyant.
Click to expand...
The verb "kill" to me means to cause death. I do not see it as a figure of speech. The use of that particular verb in this context (not just by you) seems inappropriate, and honestly irked me, sorry.

Son of an English teacher and all that.
 
AV8R_87 said:
As much as people laugh at the CAP folks for wearing their flight suits, it's stuff like this that always makes me think about wearing one.
Click to expand...
I like to wear all cotton and no polyester. Pants also.
Should consider fire resistant clothing which is available.
Give yourself a chance at least.
 
If you fly in the winter, nomex isn't half bad, and I've been known to wear it on long flights. That said, it's a pain when it's 119° on the ramp.
 
Book says takeoff with obstacle for Traveler is 1600 feet. Temp was 87 F. AI says 2100 feet. Airfield was 2400 feet. Not much margin for error there.
 
Ed Haywood said:
Book says takeoff with obstacle for Traveler is 1600 feet. Temp was 87 F. AI says 2100 feet. Airfield was 2400 feet. Not much margin for error there.
Click to expand...
That would be at gross. Question would be, how heavy were they and what would the numbers be at the weight they were. And did she crunch the numbers. Based on what I’ve read here, she seems like the type who would have.
 
AV8R_87 said:
As much as people laugh at the CAP folks for wearing their flight suits, it's stuff like this that always makes me think about wearing one.
Click to expand...
Flight suits and helmets really make a lot of sense. I remember looking at one accident docket of a crash with a G1000, and there was literally an imprint on someone’s head on the MFD.
 
bonefishpete said:
I like to wear all cotton and no polyester. Pants also.
Should consider fire resistant clothing which is available.
Give yourself a chance at least.
Click to expand...
I've worn enough PPE in my career that I occasionally fly, ride motorcycles, weld/ fabricate, etc. in short pants and flip-flops haha.

However, to your point, FR clothing has come a long way. Reasonably fashionable, and pretty comfortable (even in summer). Long sleeve T shirts, jeans, and even sweat pants are available that meet ANSI fire resistant standards. If this sort of thing is a concern for any of y'all, check your local western or work wear store.
 
AV8R_87 said:
As much as people laugh at the CAP folks for wearing their flight suits, it's stuff like this that always makes me think about wearing one.
Click to expand...
I ride motorcycles. I’m one of those weird ATGATT guys. (All The Gear All The Time)

We often say small airplane flying is about the same risk as riding a motorcycle. I won’t ride my bike without gear… yet I never had any in GA airplanes. Odd double standard.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
I ride motorcycles. I’m one of those weird ATGATT guys. (All The Gear All The Time)

We often say small airplane flying is about the same risk as riding a motorcycle. I won’t ride my bike without gear… yet I never had any in GA airplanes. Odd double standard.
Click to expand...
I ride a motorcycle too. On a bike in almost any crash road rash and head trauma are very likely things so protective gear and a helmet make good sense. We also know a lot of the things likely to kill us are external factors... traffic, wildlife, etc.

Planes are different... first the big hazards are things that are largely under our control through good pre-flight planning, training, and decision making. The types of crashes are highly variable as well. Sure if I get into a survivable crash with a post-crash fire a fireproof suit might be a lifesaver. OTOH if I'm departing from a FL airport in the middle of summer and say flying over water to the Bahamas the same outfit might actually be adverse to safety by roasting me in the plane and making me rush trying to get into the air or even causing heat stroke... and it might also kill me if I had to ditch in the water and needed to swim. And yeah obviously dress appropriately for conditions and the flight but I'm just pointing out that situations are more variable and the right choice for one situation might be the worst for another.
 
Nomex suit and gloves might buy you some time to deal with a small in-flight fire. But unless you wear a mask or face shield of some kind, it's not going to help you much in a crash. It's the lung damage that kills you. One gulp of burning air and you are done. A flight suit alone is mostly for show.
 
Ed Haywood said:
But unless you wear a mask or face shield of some kind, it's not going to help you much in a crash.
Click to expand...
Bingo. A balaclava and gloves would be something to wear for take-off and landing.

Ed Haywood said:
It's the lung damage that kills you.
Click to expand...
While lung burns are definitely a factor, my impression is that 3rd degree or higher burns over a large (75%+) portion of your body is the main killer.


I wonder what size and kind (halotron/CO2) of fire extinguisher would be needed, in conjunction with a crash-activated discharge system, to prevent a post-crash fire.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top