Fortress GA airports **rant warning**

T

Tony R

Pre-takeoff checklist
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I fly out of KHFD, I walk into the FBO they buzz me in and I'm grabbing the keys from the flight school and I'm off. I went to KMMK, no real FBO to see if there were any planes / hangars for sale one the bulletin board and the FBO is always locked.

I miss the days of riding my bike as a young teen to the local GA airport and sitting on the picnic tables watching planes take off and land. Kids will never know that level of access/freedom.

We can't complain that kids only want to stay inside playing video games because we locked them out.

Rant over .....
 
Almost every place I've landed when the FBO was unstaffed has had a posted combination for the door lock. But we're pretty far from the coast.
 
Tony R said:
I fly out of KHFD, I walk into the FBO they buzz me in and I'm grabbing the keys from the flight school and I'm off. I went to KMMK, no real FBO to see if there were any planes / hangars for sale one the bulletin board and the FBO is always locked.

I miss the days of riding my bike as a young teen to the local GA airport and sitting on the picnic tables watching planes take off and land. Kids will never know that level of access/freedom.

We can't complain that kids only want to stay inside playing video games because we locked them out.

Rant over .....
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Occasionally there is a kid whose parents drive him over to a big corporate hangar by mine (we're a class D 24/7 towered field). He gets out of the car and he has a big camera setup/stand and just takes pictures of all the planes: jets, props, even my lowly pa28.
But... he has to do it from outside the barbed wire fence. Kinda wish there was a process to let people like that in (during the day) and then closing it at night when people aren't around.

The class D airfield I trained at (KARR) is more accessible. They let the public go right up to the ramp and it's an honor system for letting yourself in/out.
Pulled up the google street view to show it, and sure enough, you can see a guy standing there with a big camera shooting photos.
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I trained out of an "unfortressed" airport in 2020/2021. No gates anywhere, and the FBO was unlocked from about 7:30am to around 9:30pm every day. When I went flying before the FBO opened, I would just walk into the hangar, pull out the plane, and take off. The plane had keyless ignition, so I didn't even need to get a key for the plane. I noted the tach and Hobbs time before take off and logged all the info after I'd landed and the FBO was open. That was a rural airport, though.

Never saw any kids, or even any of the general public - except a guy who stopped by on his motorcycle to ask about flying one day.
 
Fly 25 miles south to SNC where there are frequently people watching from the picnic tables next to the FBO and the fence gates aren't locked.
 
MMK is usually busy, but the FBO is nothing. A couch and a TV for the most part.
 
Salty said:
We don’t have a fence or a gate.
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Plenty of airports like that around here. Probably the majority of them. And those with fences are easily circumvented. I can think of only one non-airline airport around here that would impose any real impediment, and that's only because the private FBOs control all the access.
 
Going on 25 years of "SuperMax Municipal" which covers my whole piloting career. If you want in bad enough, you find the place that wants you or you learn and work the system and get in anyway.

I don't like it either. That said, I'm not sure I want to invite the Karen lawsuits that will occur when today's feral younglings get turned into red mist by a few propellers, because they were busy watching tiktok. That seems like an accelerant for airport closures.
 
Come to my airport. We let anyone in...

 
TommyG said:
MMK is usually busy, but the FBO is nothing. A couch and a TV for the most part.
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I've landed there but never had time to get out of the plane. I used to go there with my son and Connie the CAP person used to greet us with a smile. There was always a bulletin board with hangars or planes available. Not sure if that exists anymore.
 
Fences themselves don't bother me. College Park MD is one of the most secure airports around since it's within the DC FRZ. But CGS has a great "small airport" vibe and folks on the jogging trail at the end of the runway are always stopping to see planes land and take off. What bugs me are the small airports that go "corporate" - where there's no place for pilots to hang out, and the FBO caters to transient jet traffic or Part 141 training rather than resident aircraft.
 
Put me down as a plane owner who likes at least some level of security. The idea of kids riding their bicycles to the airport to look at planes is a joke - when's the last time you've seen kids ride their bikes anywhere? I think for whatever reason there's a number of older pilots who like the idea of having completely unsecured airports so that "hangar rats" can wander around looking for someone to talk to. Nothing wrong with that but just get the usually very easy to get gate code and come on in and wander. Kids have nothing to do with it.
 
Stephen Shore said:
Put me down as a plane owner who likes at least some level of security. The idea of kids riding their bicycles to the airport to look at planes is a joke - when's the last time you've seen kids ride their bikes anywhere? I think for whatever reason there's a number of older pilots who like the idea of having completely unsecured airports so that "hangar rats" can wander around looking for someone to talk to. Nothing wrong with that but just get the usually very easy to get gate code and come on in and wander. Kids have nothing to do with it.
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I see kids riding their bikes all the time, in the city (220,000+) and on country roads.
 
I got my first few airplane rides thanks to no fences. We lived in a small town, and I was one of the airport kids. Almost weekend day I was there. No one had a problem with an enthusiastic, inquisitive teen hanging out, asking tons of questions, and even helping from time to time.

One day I asked a pilot about his Navy Flying Club T-34. He asked if I liked to fly. “I’ve never been up in a plane, but I know I’ll like it.” “Okay, let’s go!”

It’s a shame that those days are probably gone forever.
 
Racerx said:
Come to my airport. We let anyone in...

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Was this at C81? :O My wife's parents live close to there, and I parked there for a week during Oshkosh a couple years ago.
 
Stephen Shore said:
Put me down as a plane owner who likes at least some level of security. The idea of kids riding their bicycles to the airport to look at planes is a joke - when's the last time you've seen kids ride their bikes anywhere?
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Around here it's starting to come back. For awhile you hardly ever saw kids outside, but they're coming back. Why, last year I even saw a kid riding his bike with what looked like a .22 over his shoulder, made me smile (we live in a sufficiently rural area that that's perfectly appropriate).
 
ateamer said:
One day I asked a pilot about his Navy Flying Club T-34. He asked if I liked to fly. “I’ve never been up in a plane, but I know I’ll like it.” “Okay, let’s go!”
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Nowadays he would probably get sued for not getting parental release.
 
ateamer said:
I got my first few airplane rides thanks to no fences. We lived in a small town, and I was one of the airport kids. Almost weekend day I was there. No one had a problem with an enthusiastic, inquisitive teen hanging out, asking tons of questions, and even helping from time to time.

One day I asked a pilot about his Navy Flying Club T-34. He asked if I liked to fly. “I’ve never been up in a plane, but I know I’ll like it.” “Okay, let’s go!”

It’s a shame that those days are probably gone forever.
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I've been flying since I was 18 years old back in 1981. I have to say that I have yet to have a kid wander up and ask for a ride. If one did I would certainly not do it. Too much could go wrong with that unfortunately.

I've given plenty of Young Eagle flights and have really enjoyed it - seeing the kids light up on every flight. But it is amazing how much more complicated even that has become over the years. Criminal background checks, online training, recurrent training, etc. just to be able to volunteer to do it. But it is a sign of the times and I completely understand it.

Just like I understand a fence around the airport.
 
mark.staggs said:
Was this at C81? :O My wife's parents live close to there, and I parked there for a week during Oshkosh a couple years ago.
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Yep. Last august. My plane may or may not have been on the ramp during this although I don't see it. If memory serves, my sister had a flight that morning and I had to get it out of the hangar for her before work.
 
If we want to keep GA alive, we should all be the best ambassador's of flying, to the public, kids, everyone.

Heck, you might have fun doing it and also help keep our airports open in the process!!
 
ateamer said:
I see kids riding their bikes all the time, in the city (220,000+) and on country roads.
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We have kids playing right outside the fence at our airport all the time on the weekends. Typically it's a mom or dad hanging out and watching their kids checking out the planes and playing on the lawn by the FBO. I think our airport has done a good job making it a cool spot, so kids want to come and see the planes.

We also do young eagle flights on the first weekend of the month and have historical planes out on the second weekend of the month with the 99's showing them to the public.
 
For what it's worth, we don't live in the world of yesterday. We don't leave our doors unlocked at home, we don't leave our keys in the ignition anymore. Airports are no different, and unfortunately are high profile targets. Not to mention keep out either the hooligans racing on the runway, or the errant elderly driver that may get stuck on the world's widest dead end road, which I've seen happen numerous times. The last thing you want to happen when landing is to rear end a Cadillac.

Another note, most airports have fences for wildlife exclusion, mainly deer. Closed and locked gates are critical to that function. An open gate is like a homing beacon for deer, they will find it.

Now all that being said, it is also important to hold regular events at the airport to garner interest and let the public in, in a controlled fashion.
 
Stephen Shore said:
...kid wander up and ask for a ride. If one did I would certainly not do it. Too much could go wrong with that unfortunately...
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It happens. Fortunately, no one was seriously injured, but, my club lost one of our two planes when, during a aviation camp for kids, w/ two children aboard, b/c of high DA and carb heat on, the plane went into the trees at the end of the runway. I've always wondered if aviation was spoiled for those two kids.
 
There is no fence at my home airport (0S9) and we have a very popular and active café on the field (the Spruce Goose). There is a small playground adjacent to the café. Despite this being a small town, we also have a great aviation museum on the field and the museum runs a youth program. They teach aircraft maintenance and participating young people can get their pilot's license through the museum at no cost. It's an amazing and inviting environment so it is no wonder there is lots of training going on here - both through the museum and one of the shops on the field. I feel lucky to be based here.
Litgtle.Prince.jpg
 
kc4wsd said:
. . . or the super-secret VFR squawk code.
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I put this in my book and was told by a beta reader to maybe tone it down, the FAA would not appreciate it, so I changed it to "FBO door codes in the US were always some jumble of numbers that a pilot knew by heart, but would be gibberish to the non-flying public."
 
Iflydogs said:
I put this in my book and was told by a beta reader to maybe tone it down, the FAA would not appreciate it, so I changed it to "FBO door codes in the US were always some jumble of numbers that a pilot knew by heart, but would be gibberish to the non-flying public."
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I think using CTAF or some other common code was a lot more secure than it used to be. With everyone having a smart phone these days, I wouldn't think it would be hard to Google the answer.
 
Back in the late 80's I used to take my son to the local airport (KLEX) where the GA planes were parked. We'd walk up and down the ramp looking at the planes, staying well clear of props, watching for pilots coming and going to make sure nobody was about to start up. One owner came out and let us sit in his plane, he even fired up the panel, much to the delight of my son. He let him sit on the wing walk for a picture (below). But within a few years, that area was surrounded by a fence and soon the chance for that kind of exposure was gone.
I understand it, of course. This airport really expanded in the 90's and now is a significant regional hub with 2 FBO's and more. But I do miss those earlier times. My son was beginning to get the bug for flying, but it passed.
But just look at the expression on that little boy's face!
 

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midwestpa24 said:
For what it's worth, we don't live in the world of yesterday. We don't leave our doors unlocked at home, we don't leave our keys in the ignition anymore.
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I do. Come on in. Just leave the dog, she'll drive you bonkers. Would like to keep moose, elk, and bear mounts as well.
 
midwestpa24 said:
For what it's worth, we don't live in the world of yesterday. We don't leave our doors unlocked at home, we don't leave our keys in the ignition anymore.
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Isn't it kind of funny that we're willing to take needless risk to fly our families in single engine, piston powered, could-be fatal death-traps, built using 1960s-1970s components...
Or we celebrate a fun time with our friends by jumping out of an airplane and hoping a parachute packed by someone we don't know deploys correctly?
Or we're willing to hop on a pair of skis, take a chairlift up to a peak with nothing more than an (optional) useless restraint bar holding us in while we dangle 100-300' above the ground, only to then rush down a mountain at 50mph with no protection next to a bunch of other skiiers?
Or in summer we'll zip around on a busy lake on a jetski/boat with other (probably drunk) boaters, just inviting collisions, wipeouts and catastrophe?

But we're afraid to leave our doors unlocked at home for a single afternoon or night, or the keys in our ignition when we run into Dunkin Donuts... THAT is where we draw the line for risk.
Kinda seems like our risk assessments are out of whack :)
 
ArrowFlyer86 said:
Isn't it kind of funny that we're willing to take needless risk to fly our families in single engine, piston powered, could-be fatal death-traps, built using 1960s-1970s components...
Or we celebrate a fun time with our friends by jumping out of an airplane and hoping a parachute packed by someone we don't know deploys correctly?
Or we're willing to hop on a pair of skis, take a chairlift up to a peak with nothing more than an (optional) useless restraint bar holding us in while we dangle 100-300' above the ground, only to then rush down a mountain at 50mph with no protection next to a bunch of other skiiers?
Or in summer we'll zip around on a busy lake on a jetski/boat with other (probably drunk) boaters, just inviting collisions, wipeouts and catastrophe?

But we're afraid to leave our doors unlocked at home for a single afternoon or night, or the keys in our ignition when we run into Dunkin Donuts... THAT is where we draw the line for risk.
Kinda seems like our risk assessments are out of whack :)
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Apples and oranges my friend. You are comparing risks that you take or accept versus acknowledging there are untrustworthy and/or evil people in the world.

I live in Smalltown USA, where yeah you could probably still leave things unlocked. However there are unscrupulous persons around, always looking for an opportunity to take. I choose not to give them one.
 
midwestpa24 said:
Apples and oranges my friend. You are comparing risks that you take or accept versus acknowledging there are untrustworthy and/or evil people in the world.

I live in Smalltown USA, where yeah you could probably still leave things unlocked. However there are unscrupulous persons around, always looking for an opportunity to take. I choose not to give them one.
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I hear ya.

Locking your doors is an easy, low cost deterrent to discourage the most opportunistic would-be bad guys from coming in. There's pretty much no cost to taking that preventative step.

But in both scenarios you understand the risk.

I just find the scenario kind of amusing, where I'm flying my 1972 airplane/engine over densely populated or forested area, and what actually bothers me is knowing my side door at home is unlocked :p
 
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