Definitely wasnt a walk in the park for them. But as I recall their kill ratio was like 155 to 1 which was the highest ever tabulated in history. No wonder the NVA would send a battalion out when they heard a single team was being dropped in their hood.
Formation Flight
- Thread starter Ed Haywood
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Velocity173
Touchdown! Greaser!
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Straight out of the book “Legend” (Roy Benavidez). They got shot up pretty bad on that op. Excellent book.
Never really saw much value in false inserts. It’s a common TTP but in real world, I think it tips your hand to the enemy that you’re in the area. You could be false inserting to a hot LZ and not even know it. Also uses fuel that might be needed later.
What’s critical is the timing of and accuracy of prepping the LZ with fires, followed closely by escort (AH/OH) security. Then of course utilize NOE for the lift and minimize time on the LZ.
Can’t tell you how many times in my current job, LZ security (Police / fire) tell me “you’re former military aren’t ya?” They always say former military come in “hot.” I laugh because my approaches are pretty tame. I’d be fired if I came in on a typical air assault profile. I know guys in the Army that have ripped off search lights, landing gear, chopped their tail rotor drive shaft in half, etc.
Ed Haywood
Final Approach
When I joined up in the mid-80's, there were still plenty of old Vietnam Huey pilots in the Army. They flew REALLY aggressively. I'll always remember my first flight in a Blackhawk at the Jungle School in Panama, 1986. We were going as fast as that machine could go, and I felt like I could touch the top of the jungle canopy with my feet. Then all of a sudden the bottom dropped out, we slammed down in an opening, bounced out, and away they went.
A fun memory: JOTC in 1989 as a platoon leader, with my CO, XO, and fellow PL and best buddy. We had just finished the "green hell" obstacle course about 30 seconds prior. You can tell from our faces that we are smoked hard. I'm on the right.
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There was a reason for that. Mainly had to do with single ship operations. For example, my aircraft commander checkride consisted of hauling ammo to a firebase that was being attacked. Flight school approach would get you shot out of the air in a case like that. What I did was identify the LZ a few clicks (kilometers) out, then go high speed nap of the earth directly over the pad to get a view of it then disappear back in to the treeline, lay the Huey on its side in a tight 180 turn to decelerate, pulling hard aft cyclic with some collective so as not to overspeed the rotor, pop into view just short of the pad, immediately flare and level and holler at the crew to dump the ammo. They did, at which time I pulled all the pitch I had and went full nose down to accelerate just as a mortar round hit where I had been.
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Velocity173
Touchdown! Greaser!
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Jeez is that sweat? Last time I was soaked with sweat like that was humping (rucking) at Camp Geiger during MCT in the middle of summer. You could wring the sweat out of our socks.
Velocity173
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Old school Black Hawks with some good formation NOE footage at 15+00. Actually an excellent documentary. I’ve got it on DVD.
Ed Haywood
Final Approach
Most of it is from from wading through the bay and climbing muddy cliffs. Fast forward through this and you'll get the idea:
Great flying footage! I went through Air Assault School during that era. I was mostly clueless sitting in the back. Later in my career I got invited to sit up in the cockpit during some NVD flights. After watching a few minutes of low level aerial refueling on an MH-53 I said no thanks, I'll sit in back, would rather not know.
Pinecone
Final Approach
We did a downed aircrew/SAR profile. Local Army NG unit inserted us (I was one of the "downed" ones) and retrieved us. I was side saddle coming back, wondering about the tall cat tails that I was looking up at. I leaned forward and saw that the skids were wet as they were hitting the tops of the little waves on the bay. Also mid-80s.
Ed Haywood
Final Approach
How well does the RV community do formation training?
Seems like the RV-8 would be an excellent platform for that.
Seems like the RV-8 would be an excellent platform for that.
wanttaja
Final Approach
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In my 1998-2023 homebuilt accident database, 19 of the aircraft were involved in formation flight at the time of a midair. Fourteen of them were RVs....
Ron Wanttaja
Gilbert Buettner
Cleared for Takeoff
It seems the RV guys really like formation. Personally, I stay away from formation unless I know the other pilot or pilots have had formal training.
Ed Haywood
Final Approach
It is my impression that the RV community organizes some sort of formal training. That is what I am asking about.
unsafervguy
En-Route
not really, there are a few done, the group in venice fl is good but thre are not a lot of RV formation training groups.nothing as well put together like the NATA guys do. their training is top notch.
Ed Haywood
Final Approach
I'm not very far from Venice. Hmmm.
Pinecone
Final Approach
Agreed. The old guy that taught me aerobatics and tailwheel told me to never fly formation with ANYONE that had not been trained properly. He considered military about the only proper training at the time (late-70s). But now, lead by the T-34s, most warbird formation training is pretty equal.
Some of the formation training for the mass Oshkosh arrivals looks be be pretty marginal.
midwestpa24
Final Approach
A Hawaiian shirt would be too distracting to the wingmen.
Doc Holliday
En-Route
Don’t forget to have your “call sign” painted under the cockpit window…..
Ed Haywood
Final Approach
Bikini top?
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