Foreign Anthems

bstratt

bstratt

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The thread on National Anthem got me thinking. What is the correct protocal when a foreign anthem is played in your country, when you are in a foreign country and their national anthem is played, and why the difference if any?

The Super Bowl is really an international event and probably quite a few non-Americans attend. I would think simply standing respectfully and not talking would be adequate - they obviously wouldn't put hand over heart!

Comments?
 
Usually works at NHL games where they've always (in my experience) done both the "Star Spangled Banner" and "O Canada".

I was taught in Canada to stand respectfully and remove my hat during O Canada. Don't know if there's a law about it though.

But then again, when I was growing up, I thought the "Star Spangled Banner" ended with the words "Play Ball!" :D
 
When a foreign anthem is played in my country or when I am in a foreign country and they play their anthem, I stand and keep my mouth shut. I figure if I want people to respect my country I should do the same for them and their country.
 
smigaldi said:
When a foreign anthem is played in my country or when I am in a foreign country and they play their anthem, I stand and keep my mouth shut. I figure if I want people to respect my country I should do the same for them and their country.
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I figure that some form of "When in Rome" applies.
 
smigaldi said:
When a foreign anthem is played in my country or when I am in a foreign country and they play their anthem, I stand and keep my mouth shut. I figure if I want people to respect my country I should do the same for them and their country.
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Unless it's the French national anthem, where you're expected to surrender at the coda. :D


Trapper John
 
Well having grown up in Germany, the anthem is only played in international matches. I find the practice of playing the anthem for EVERY sporting event/gathering somewhat strange. When the anthem was played everyone did behave similarly. Standing up, and putting your hand over your heart, and singing the third verse of the Deutschlandlied is pretty common.
 
US military personnel are supposed to do exactly what they do for the US flag and anthem -- stand to attention and salute. Source: US military regulations.

Civilians stand and uncover, but do not give the "hand over heart" for foreign flags or anthems -- only our own. Source: “Protocol: The Complete Handbook of Diplomatic, Official and Social Usage,” by Mary Jane McCaffree and Pauline Innis.
 
Ron Levy said:
US military personnel are supposed to do exactly what they do for the US flag and anthem -- stand to attention and salute. Source: US military regulations.

Civilians stand and uncover, but do not give the "hand over heart" for foreign flags or anthems -- only our own. Source: “Protocol: The Complete Handbook of Diplomatic, Official and Social Usage,” by Mary Jane McCaffree and Pauline Innis.
Click to expand...

FYI
1–10. Foreign national anthems.
During the conduct of a ceremony, the performance of the national anthem of any foreign country will be followed
without pause by playing the National Anthem of the United States. (An exception may be made only when two or
more foreign national anthems are played in succession. The United States National Anthem will be played following
the sequence.) The same honors rendered to the United States National Anthem will be rendered during the playing of
the foreign national anthems. The United States and foreign national anthems will not be incorporated into any musical
arrangement, composition, or medley and will be played through without repetition of any part except as required to
make both words and music complete.
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Source AR-600-25
http://www.usma.edu/Protocol/images/AR600-25.pdf
 
Ron Levy said:
US military personnel are supposed to do exactly what they do for the US flag and anthem -- stand to attention and salute. Source: US military regulations.

Civilians stand and uncover, but do not give the "hand over heart" for foreign flags or anthems -- only our own. Source: “Protocol: The Complete Handbook of Diplomatic, Official and Social Usage,” by Mary Jane McCaffree and Pauline Innis.
Click to expand...

LOL!! I remember all the flack in the early 90's when the USMC (I think) color guard had the Canadian flag upside down during one of the pre-game celebrations for the MLB playoffs involving the Blue Jays. The Canadians took it with humor and had a lot of fun with it, e.g. "To the Americans - stem side down". To their credit the USMC requested an opportunity to correct their mistake which they did with dignity and received the forgiveness of all Canadians.
 
So here is a question for all the flag-reg experts. When the US flag is displayed on the right side of the vertical stabilizer of an aircraft, where should the stars be, in the upper left or upper right?
 
Everskyward said:
So here is a question for all the flag-reg experts. When the US flag is displayed on the right side of the vertical stabilizer of an aircraft, where should the stars be, in the upper left or upper right?
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The star field should always face the direction of movement.

in the case you mentioned it should be towards the nose.
 
smigaldi said:
The star field should always face the direction of movement.

in the case you mentioned it should be towards the nose.
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I was wrong then. I thought that looked goofy. When I mentioned it to someone he said that it was because if the flag was really on a pole and the airplane was flying it would look like that. Not so much so when it is sitting on the ramp where you would normally see the flag though. It would be a little hard to spot in flight.

I still think it looks goofy... :dunno:
 
Everskyward said:
I was wrong then. I thought that looked goofy. When I mentioned it to someone he said that it was because if the flag was really on a pole and the airplane was flying it would look like that. Not so much so when it is sitting on the ramp where you would normally see the flag though. It would be a little hard to spot in flight.

I still think it looks goofy... :dunno:
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What bugs me is when peoplewear a flag patch on their right arm with the star field showing the flag in retreat.

Like this cub scout

6a011168d129d3970c0120a563eb06970c-800wi


The flag should face the other way.

like the military wears it

0611BackwardsPatch.jpg
 
smigaldi said:
What bugs me is when peoplewear a flag patch on their right arm with the star field showing the flag in retreat.

Like this cub scout

6a011168d129d3970c0120a563eb06970c-800wi


The flag should face the other way.

like the military wears it

0611BackwardsPatch.jpg
Click to expand...
I never would have guessed the rule applied to people too. Learn something new every day on POA! :)
 
smigaldi said:
What bugs me is when peoplewear a flag patch on their right arm with the star field showing the flag in retreat.

Like this cub scout

6a011168d129d3970c0120a563eb06970c-800wi


The flag should face the other way.

like the military wears it

0611BackwardsPatch.jpg
Click to expand...

You might point that out to Boy Scout HQ. They've been doing it that way for years.
 
vontresc said:
Well having grown up in Germany, the anthem is only played in international matches. I find the practice of playing the anthem for EVERY sporting event/gathering somewhat strange.
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Having grown up in Germany you would find that strange as almost every bit of nationalism has been beaten out of the Germans since the end of WWII.


When the anthem was played everyone did behave similarly. Standing up, and putting your hand straight out in salute, and singing Deutschland Uber Alles is required.
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There, fixedit for ya. :D
 
JeffDG said:
Usually works at NHL games where they've always (in my experience) done both the "Star Spangled Banner" and "O Canada".
Click to expand...
I went to an air show in Canada last summer and was surprised that they played both national anthems. They even parachuted with both flags.
 
Everskyward said:
I went to an air show in Canada last summer and was surprised that they played both national anthems. They even parachuted with both flags.
Click to expand...

Actually had the same happen in South Carolina last year myself...well, the Snowbirds were there.
 
vontresc said:
Well having grown up in Germany, the anthem is only played in international matches. I find the practice of playing the anthem for EVERY sporting event/gathering somewhat strange. When the anthem was played everyone did behave similarly. Standing up, and putting your hand over your heart, and singing the third verse of the Deutschlandlied is pretty common.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I started finding it strange when I was about 6.

I suppose it's ironic that the constant bombardment with the Star Spangled Banner, along with all other things commonly held out as "patriotioc," eventually had the opposite of what I presume the intended effect was.
 
Well for a while German soccer fans were singing the original Haydn lyrics "Gott erhalte Franz den Kaiser", but that was more a function of Franz Beckenbauer being team coach :)

And as Felix mentioned there are plenty of right wing nationalist parties still left over there. Thankfully most of the "Altnazies" have since passed, but there is still some of the "well Hitler did build the Autobahns" kind of revisionism out there.
 
Obi Heed Kenobi said:
Interesting. I started finding it strange when I was about 6.

I suppose it's ironic that the constant bombardment with the Star Spangled Banner, along with all other things commonly held out as "patriotioc," eventually had the opposite of what I presume the intended effect was.
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I think that's why I dropped out of Girl Scouts as soon as I was old enough to say "no" and make it stick. All that ceremony was too much for me. I guess that's why I don't know the "anthem rules" and "flag rules". If I was ever taught at one time they are buried in my consciousness. I do stand quietly for anyone's national anthem, however.
 
sba55 said:
Beaten? No, not at all. Germany just doesn't have as many nationalist fanatics as we do.


See what I mean? :mad2:
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You did see the smiley? Riiiiiight?
 
Ghery said:
You might point that out to Boy Scout HQ. They've been doing it that way for years.
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Yep, that's the way flag patch was when I was a kid.

But I say give them a break, since most Scouts will know much more about flag protocol than your average citizen.


Trapper John
 
I know an AA pilot that refused to leave the gate one time because the flag decals on the vertical fin were on backwards.

He is an Army vet and very patriotic, to say the least.

They changed the decals.

Everskyward said:
So here is a question for all the flag-reg experts. When the US flag is displayed on the right side of the vertical stabilizer of an aircraft, where should the stars be, in the upper left or upper right?
Click to expand...
 
It happens at airshows in the US more often than people realize. A lot depends on the participating aircraft and attending veterans groups.

Everskyward said:
I went to an air show in Canada last summer and was surprised that they played both national anthems. They even parachuted with both flags.
Click to expand...
 
Steve said:
I know an AA pilot that refused to leave the gate one time because the flag decals on the vertical fin were on backwards.

He is an Army vet and very patriotic, to say the least.

They changed the decals.
Click to expand...

Seems kind of...I don't know what the word would be, but anal comes to mind...to screw up paying passengers' schedules over your own preference regarding a couple of stickers.
 
Some people have strong convictions and try to live by them, I suppose.

Obi Heed Kenobi said:
Seems kind of...I don't know what the word would be, but anal comes to mind...to screw up paying passengers' schedules over your own preference regarding a couple of stickers.
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Steve said:
Some people have strong convictions and try to live by them, I suppose.
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But are those convictions properly prioritized?

Not wanting to fly an airplane because you are demanding that the flag decals are mis-installed does seem anal. There is also a duty to the paying customers sitting in the plane that will never see the decals. Should not an airline captain also have strong convictions on doing his duty?

There certainly was no safety hazard with the decals, writing them up and following through on making sure that they were installed properly as soon as practicable seems like a more than reasonable type of action. Had I been a pax on that plane I think I would have gotten off the plane and demanded that I be flown by a more mentally stable captain.
 
smigaldi said:
But are those convictions properly prioritized?

Not wanting to fly an airplane because you are demanding that the flag decals are mis-installed does seem anal. There is also a duty to the paying customers sitting in the plane that will never see the decals. Should not an airline captain also have strong convictions on doing his duty?

There certainly was no safety hazard with the decals, writing them up and following through on making sure that they were installed properly as soon as practicable seems like a more than reasonable type of action. Had I been a pax on that plane I think I would have gotten off the plane and demanded that I be flown by a more mentally stable captain.
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+1. I also think the spirit in which the flag is displayed (or the anthem is sung) should count for something even if it is not technically correct or conforming to everybody's taste. If the flag police are going to criticize every instance of displaying it wrong I think people will be more reluctant to display it. I guess we can't give Bobby or Susie a flag on a stick to carry because they might fall and drop it on the ground.
 
I guess only those who have served in the military would understand.

Everskyward said:
+1. I also think the spirit in which the flag is displayed (or the anthem is sung) should count for something even if it is not technically correct or conforming to everybody's taste. If the flag police are going to criticize every instance of displaying it wrong I think people will be more reluctant to display it. I guess we can't give Bobby or Susie a flag on a stick to carry because they might fall and drop it on the ground.
Click to expand...
 
Steve said:
I guess only those who have served in the military would understand.
Click to expand...

Because they are the only true Americans? I won't send this thread to SZ, so I'll leave that unanswered.... (I agree with David)

I will say this == Kaiser Franz was the best footballer, ever!!!!!!!!!!!!

He was my idol when I was a kid.

Most Europeans aren't really into anthems and flags to the same extent as the US. Probably has something to do with the aftereffects of the nationalism that leveled the continent twice in less than 40 years. They do play anthems and raise flags for the victors of Formula 1 races. I've heard the German and Italian anthems a zillion times thanks to Schumacher. Boy would I love to see the Stars and Stripes raised behind the podium.
 
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