Why did you make me look that up! The G1000 will always be the "new hotness" to me since it came out at the same time I started flying and training on steam gauges.
In case anyone else needs a refresh. 22 years is the number. Seems like yesterday.
Foreflight - major layoffs
- Thread starter ateamer
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In case anyone else needs a refresh. 22 years is the number. Seems like yesterday.
The more independent the better. Sure.
I've only worked for one startup, but we were venture funded and had 10-12 developers in 3 teams. Still made sense to divide and conquer even at that size.
A few years ago I gave a pilot a 2012 Nexus 7 tablet with Android 5 to use with Avare. He still uses it today.
There's a lot of lazy, unoptimized software writing going on these days. That's why the calculator app on Win 95 started instantly and used a few hundred KB of memory, yet the one on Win 11 takes a second or two to start and uses 56 MB of memory to do the exact same thing.
JOhnH
Touchdown! Greaser!
If you have the cash, and the teams are reasonably sized, it is a good strategy.
My example counted multiple units that included multiple teams and teams within teams, measuring in the hundreds per unit. We occupied an entire high-rise in downtown Atlanta. And that was just the headquarters.
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why 7, why not 5, or 3, or 1?
Especially if it induces new sales, merely to replace what had been working. *COUGH* *WIN10* *COUGH*
A software company should have no need to drive sales of independent hardware. Unless there’s a kickback.
Apple’s must be so successful since FF is driving the hardware requirements for it’s customers.
Lindberg
Final Approach
There seems to be a significant epoch there based on the older devices not supporting more recent OS versions. So they made the decision based on the OS versions they're going to support with new software versions, and the decision seems reasonable based on the age of hardware that will be affected.
Lindberg
Final Approach
Does Foreflight sell Apple hardware?
Seven mostly aligns with how long Apple supports a given SKU. So FF made a pragmatic decision to follow the support calendar of their platform.
I manage a large number of iPads for a small school so I deal with these issues a lot. Eventually the iPads get old enough that they can no longer run the new version of iOS and even if apple allowed that they'd be so slow you wouldn't want to use them anyway. App developers don't want to support old versions of their apps that run on the old iOS/hardware and eventually you just can't use them anymore. This isn't just a FF thing, every app developer does this. Not long ago I junked quite a few of perfectly functional iPads because we could no longer install/update/use any of the educational apps needed for the students. It's frustrating for sure but having once been on the developer side of things I understand why.
Now IDK what goes on internally at FF but I hope they've just decided to stop developing new features or at least as many and maintain what they have. I honestly can't think of anything the app doesn't already do that I'd really need/want and it's already suffering from feature bloat as is. If that's what they're doing it would make sense that wouldn't need as many developers... I hope that's what it is.
Now IDK what goes on internally at FF but I hope they've just decided to stop developing new features or at least as many and maintain what they have. I honestly can't think of anything the app doesn't already do that I'd really need/want and it's already suffering from feature bloat as is. If that's what they're doing it would make sense that wouldn't need as many developers... I hope that's what it is.
Cap'n Jack
Final Approach
It is probably because of regulations to support a product sold in different parts of the world after the last sale date, or "End of Sale". I know Teledyne keeps parts on hand to keep those systems running. Different countries have different timeframes so we just used the longest one
flyingcheesehead
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While they did allow remote work, ForeFlight's two biggest development offices were in Austin and Houston... And Garmin, from what I hear, is absolutely 100% against remote workers, so if you don't live within a reasonable commute of Olathe, KS, fuhgeddabout it. However, I think maybe the GP team is in Minnesota? I can't remember. I don't recall any Garmin offices in TX.
You should see private through commercial students with a paper sectional and chart supplement.
I've been a Garmin hardware guy for a looong time... Probably 23 years ago when I first used a GNS 430. I've got a GTN 750 in my plane. I've used GNS, GTN, G1000, G3000, and most of the other boxes Garmin offers... But I can't make any sense whatsoever of Garmin Pilot.
That is a very compelling feature.
I'm on the alpha testing team, and even the alpha version is almost always rock solid. It's impressive.
They said 40-50% of *development* staff. I don't have a list of who's gone, but it seems from what I've seen so far that maybe many of those who were let go were newer. However, their Director of Engineering was also let go, so that impression might be completely off.
Absolutely - And generally, ForeFlight's support lines up with Apple's support as well. After a certain point, older hardware can no longer run major new OS versions. Apple does tend to support two major OS versions behind with security updates, but that usually means that two years after you can't upgrade to the latest greatest OS, you can't even get security updates any more and it's a good idea to ditch that hardware.
At that point, it makes zero sense for ForeFlight to continue to support it. The number of people who are still on hardware that old is likely a fraction of a percent.
Yabut, the GTN Xi series is only 9 years old (and even so, overdue for replacement). The G500 TXi is 9 years old as well. The G1000 was replaced by the G1000 NXi - hey look - 9 years ago too. I believe the replacement for the NXi is either already out or on the cusp of it though I can't recall where I heard that. The G3X Touch is getting really long in the tooth at 12 years old.
The only thing that's been replaced relatively recently is the G3000 (by the G3000 Prime). I expect we'll be seeing a lot more new hardware from Garmin in the next couple of years.
I really hope that Garmin continues with pushing features from the bigger, expensive birds down into the piston market, and then the piston retrofit market. I'd love to have a retrofit of the autoland system, and I think that'll happen once whatever exclusivity period Cirrus surely negotiated expires.
JOhnH
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Perhaps there's a chance that those they let go were part of the 80% that only does 20% of the work.
Does anyone remember the reaction when Elon layed off 80% of Twitters staff? The gasping for breath and caterwauling was deafening. "He will lose all customers and advertisers and will drive them (Twitter) out of business. Twitter (X) is still around and arguably better than ever.
Introducing new hardware isn’t the same thing as deprecating old. For example, the GNS430 is 28 years old and just reached end of life status. Imagine if G stopped selling database subscriptions for GTN Xi at the 7-year mark and told you if you still want the capability you need a hardware refresh.
Dana
Final Approach
It's not just Apple; even Avare recently dropped support for older Android versions... though Avare is much leaner (in features and hardware requirements) that the latest and greatest hardware isn't as important.
But there's always going to be a shorter hardware lifetime in consumer products like ipads and android tablets, because of the need for constant security updates. That's less of an issue for dedicated hardware that isn't connected to the internet.
UngaWunga
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some rose-colored glasses there....
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I mean, it's the only reason I have any apple hardware...
Well, the jury is still out on that.
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Nauga,
padlocked
JOhnH
Touchdown! Greaser!
That's why I chose words like "perhaps" and "a chance". I also could have said "hopefully", but never did I say "They did".
Also note that I said X is "arguably" better than ever. But it is still in existence, which many people predicted would not be the case.
If you use enough weasel words, you can be right about almost anything.
Ed Haywood
Final Approach
I think it is. The main technical change has been community notes, which works well and makes way more business sense than an army of fact checkers in a skyscraper in San Francisco.
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RedundancyTanner
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It aligns with increasing the minimum supported version to iOS 18.
Apple has allowed apps to maintain the "old" non-Liquid Glass style for iOS 26, but Apple has stated it will be required for iOS 27.
Besides "not in line with the times", what's wrong with the old style?
RedundancyTanner
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It's being forced by Apple
So, forced obsolescence.
Not shooting the messenger (you), just pointing out that a lot of this "app must be kept to the latest ios version" is a load of bs that has nothing to do with functionality.
RedundancyTanner
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Well yeah, all of it in the end does have to do with money. The call to increment the minimum supported version gets made when it costs more to support the lower versions than it would to increase it.
That said, Apple is very good about backwards compatibility. If you have a device that isn't supported by the latest app update, you get the last version of the app that did.
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If you don’t make it compatible with evolving os releases how do you ensure it will work on new hardware/firmware that is delivered with the latest os and incompatible with previous os releases?
Nauga,
codeblocked
That's why hardware abstraction layers exist. The "getlatlon" function should work the same way regardless of the GPS hardware installed. Same with the other basic i/o and display functions.
Foreflight isn't the latest 3D flight simulator, I'm sure it could still use the legacy "put_bitmap" function from ios12 if it was still supported, even if not as fast as a modern alternate function.
Removing the "put_bitmap" function just because you now have the "put_bitmap_liquid_glass" is what happened with ios. Compatibility and legacy applications be damned!
True. No different than constraining the code to be 8086-compatible. Yes, you're stuck with basic functionality and lower performance, but if all you're writing is a text-based application that handles some basic disk i/o, that's all you need. You can do it all through BIOS function calls.
MS somehow managed to keep a lot of backwards compatibility, both for DOS and Windows. You can run a lot of legacy 3.1 and 95 software on Win 7 (and maybe even beyond, although moving to 64 bit finally broke some things). I guess they understood the value of being able to run legacy software, even as they were getting in bed with hardware manufacturers to make sure that a new version of Windows was going to create a demand for new hardware.
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JOhnH
Touchdown! Greaser!
I've never used either, but can you define "better"?
I've been on GP for about 5 years, but was a iFly user before. Switch was driven by ifly's inability to speak to my Garmin avionics. GP's biggest problem IMO is the same as FF's...10 lbs of **** shoved into a 5 lb sack. Tiny little buttons make it hard to use even in calm air. GP is marginally better than FF, but iFly seems to have been designed to be used in flight. Big buttons and a simple UI. That comes at the cost of fewer features, but I don't know that there's anything I ACTUALLY USE in GP that iFly didn't have. I haven't really looked at iFly in a couple years though, so my info might be out of date.
For android? All day long and twice on Sundays.
For IOS; iFly has similar features and capability except panel connectivity and Smart Charts at a lower price point.
For parity across the two OSs, iFly wins.
I do prefer iFly’s weather briefing format over GPs pdf only weather briefing. I do prefer Smart Charts over no Smart Charts. I prefer GPs integration of documents over iFly, but GP loses on the web based planning. I have not decided how I feel about flight plan transfer yet, but I do appreciate panel mount ADSB In over portable. I keep a Stratux in my flight bag as a spare and as such, keep iFly as a backup EFB.
And that’s my biggest gripe with GPs walled garden; much fewer portable ADSB in options.
For most, ‘better’ comes down to preference, but I can’t speak to @Skymac ‘s definition of better.
bflynn
Touchdown! Greaser!
Eroom's law. Every 18 months, software get half as efficient.
It's the counter to Moore's law.
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They are two sides of the same coin. If we didn't have artificial scarcity to drive demand, we wouldn't have anything at all.
I wonder if coding assistants will:
* allow developers to cut through all the bloat and make software great again
* dump hydrazine on the already raging dumpster fire
Just kidding. There is no doubt at all which way this will go
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Respectfully, when was Caterpillar owned by Private Equity - do tell!
Caterpillar Sells Majority Interest in 3PL to Private Equity Firm for $750 Million - TT
Caterpillar Inc. has agreed to sell a majority interest in its third-party logistics business to privately held Platinum Equity for about $750 million, while retaining its in-house international network to support its dealers and customers.
www.ttnews.com
ETA: when Cat was founded it was a merger of Holt and Best and was privately held by the families and private investors, to include bank partners. The IPO came shortly after the company was formed, so it was extremely short lived.
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