Flying Over Class B

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Scott@KTYR

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Scott@KTYR
Day Dreaming this morning about flying from Texas to Florida and how to reduce the flying time.

Has anyone had any experience flying over Orlando Class B (KMCO) VFR and/or IFR? Say 10500 or 12500 for VFR? I always use Flight Following on my travels and wondered if ATC would not allow this even though it is above Class B 10000 ceiling.
 
If you're above it, you're above it. You don't have to talk to anyone if you don't want to.
 
Don't see why they wouldn't allow it.
Since you're getting flight following you may want to just ask them to transition through, that way you don't have to climb higher than you need to.
 
I don't think they can "not allow" it. The only time they would be giving directives outside of B, C or D is if you're within a Class C outer area.
 
Permission to transition is likely depending on timing (when it's slower and not rush hour) and traffic flow.

Here at DFW, Regional Approach will grant VFR traffic flying over the center of the big airport as long as you're demonstrating you're on top of your game with your flying and radio protocols.
 
I doubt you'll have any trouble transitioning over the top of Class B, but why not transition through it? Saves a pretty long climb.

Remember if you start hearing airliners restricted below you, you're being a bit rude, even if it is allowed. Turbines work best at really high altitudes.
 
Sac Arrow said:
If you're above it, you're above it. You don't have to talk to anyone if you don't want to.
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You don't have to get a clearance to fly over Class Bravo, but as a practice you should contact approach control and let them know you are flying over, they can always refuse you a squawk code and tell you have a nice day.
 
CTLSi said:
You don't have to get a clearance to fly over Class Bravo, but as a practice you should contact approach control and let them know you are flying over, they can always refuse you a squawk code and tell you have a nice day.
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They aren't supposed to give you instructions in Class E, but if they do, that doesn't excuse you from complying.

There are FAA policies that say instructions are given to VFR pilots only in Class B/C/D, but there is no regulation. There IS a regulation that says you must comply with instructions. 14 CFR 91.123(b).
 
You can ask for clearance through the Bravo and may be surprised,
I routinely fly west through the JFK class Bravo at 6500.
I always ask "can you accomodate" and they seem appreciative of the courteous request.
It also depends on the active runway if you will be in the way of the landing corridor.
 
I don't think there's much VFR traffic above class B airspace, so I doubt that one airplane will create a significant problem for ATC. I have monitored the appropriate frequencies on the few occasions when I have overflown the SFO class B, and have never heard any evidence that I even existed, let alone caused a problem. I did hear some complaints about a military aircraft that was maneuvering in the area of a published IFR arrival procedure one day.
 
The best crossing point is often -- but not always -- right over midfield, well off runway heading. You can get the runway in use off ATIS.
 
I've gone above the LA basin class B many times without speaking to a soul. It's all good.
 
MAKG1 said:
The best crossing point is often -- but not always -- right over midfield, well off runway heading. You can get the runway in use off ATIS.
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Good idea, especially when outside one's home area.
 
Palmpilot said:
I don't think there's much VFR traffic above class B airspace, so I doubt that one airplane will create a significant problem for ATC. I have monitored the appropriate frequencies on the few occasions when I have overflown the SFO class B, and have never heard any evidence that I even existed, let alone caused a problem. I did hear some complaints about a military aircraft that was maneuvering in the area of a published IFR arrival procedure one day.
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I have. Over SFO Class B at 10,500 going to Watsonville with flight following, two UAL aircraft departing SFO were restricted under 10,000 for traffic. As I was the only guy up there, it was me.

No complaints, just a traffic restriction.
 
CTLSi said:
You don't have to get a clearance to fly over Class Bravo, but as a practice you should contact approach control and let them know you are flying over, they can always refuse you a squawk code and tell you have a nice day.
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It's never a bad idea to get flight following, but they really don't care if you're overflying Class B any more than they care if you're overflying C or D, or if you're just in the general area.
 
Some Class B controllers are better about transitioning through, and others are not. I've found DFW to be among the worst... I've rarely been able to get clearance through, IFR or VFR, and I distinctly remember on one trip going south I was VFR and asked for clearance through at 8500 (well above incoming traffic, and not in the departure corridor) and was refused. My destination was south of the B, right in the "middle" so going around would be a huge detour. I told the controller I would go over the top and could just hear the seething anger in his voice. :) I'm guessing not many people go over the top (11k'). I told him what I was doing and why.

I'm going to try again on Thursday on my way to Austin, and be prepared to go over the top.
 
Well, going around below 2000 would be much less of a detour. B's are big at high altitude, not so big at low. DFW in particular is a 30 mile radius at 8500, but 10 miles or less (depending on exactly where) below 2000, unless you insist on going around Love.
 
Scott@KTYR said:
Day Dreaming this morning about flying from Texas to Florida and how to reduce the flying time.

Has anyone had any experience flying over Orlando Class B (KMCO) VFR and/or IFR? Say 10500 or 12500 for VFR? I always use Flight Following on my travels and wondered if ATC would not allow this even though it is above Class B 10000 ceiling.
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Most Class B's would rather talk to you if you're planning on going over the top than have you be an unknown target. Good chance they'll clear you through it if they've got the space to spare, saving you a climb.

If you're thinking of ducking under it, that's also definitely doable but there are plenty of tall towers in some parts to be wary of (Bithlo Towers, sticking up at about 1,700' in a 3,000ft floor section of the Class B, as well as a 1600' one southeast of St Cloud).
 
I really struggled with this returning from Oshkosh. I got a late start and was a few gallons short of full. I could make the flight non-stop to the east only if I overflew the lake or cut the corner over Chicago. While I could fly VFR down to Chicago, the rest of the flight would be at night, high and with occassional clouds so IFR was required.

I really didn't know the procedure for a VFR/IFR composite plan - that's what I recall them being called. Using Foreflight I attempted to file an IFR plan starting just past Chicago at CGR direct to Delaware. Foreflight required a departure airport so I added OSH and a comment that I would be VFR to CGR at 11.5, over the Class B. I got back an expected routing that circumnavigated Chicago by a wide margin, just as the clearance I rec'd in to Osh a few days ago.

So I departed Oshkosh, climbed to 11.5 and found a FSS freq to file another IFR plan from CGR to destination. Once that was done, I contacted the closest approach to open the plan while over the Class B. They immediately picked it up, cleared me direct and gave me vectors for traffic. That all worked quite well.

Flying in and out of White Plains IFR, the clearance in from the south always goes low and around to the west. However on the way out it's always right over JFK at or above 6k as I recall, consistent with the post getting VFR transitions at 6500. Does anyone get that going west to east?

Doing a NJ to Montauk roundtrip, I file IFR and was being sent north to Fishkill or something . I tried to negotiate with the controller for something less onerous but finally said cancel IFR and he immediately cleared me for a direct transition to Montauk. Got the same on the way back. VFR was the key to going thru the Class B that day. Watching NYC light up at dusk is quite a sight.

Transitioning thru Charlotte IFR, they bring you right over the airport but never higher than 6k. I usually have to descend to transition straight thru. Wish that kind of thing was published somewhere... is it?
 
I've never had a problem going directly through the bravo in MCO. I flew through it almost every day this year. They usually just have me go over the runways. The only time they move me around is when I'm IFR.
 
I regularly transition KMCO airspace en-route from Tampa area to the space coast. Always find ATC to be very accommodating to GA drivers.

And I agree with Mike I above post....if you decide on coming through at a lower altitude there are lots of towers to be aware of in central FL. !
 
MAKG1 said:
Well, going around below 2000 would be much less of a detour. B's are big at high altitude, not so big at low. DFW in particular is a 30 mile radius at 8500, but 10 miles or less (depending on exactly where) below 2000, unless you insist on going around Love.
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Very true, but I HATE flying < 2000' around there unless landing because that altitude is hot, bumpy and full of traffic. Not to mention less efficient flying, at least in my plane. :wink2:
 
No issue but I recommend Flight Following already-established prior. Just for added safety. Class Bravo (even if not "in it") represents the nations busiest areas and if FF is available, use it. It is free.
 
Bill Watson said:
Flying in and out of White Plains IFR, the clearance in from the south always goes low and around to the west. However on the way out it's always right over JFK at or above 6k as I recall, consistent with the post getting VFR transitions at 6500. Does anyone get that going west to east?
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Last year I did a photo flight over NYC, and wanted to do it from above the Class B so I'd have some maneuvering freedom. Newark gave me climb vectors to let me climb up to the top through the Bravo (maneuvering just south of the VZ). Once on top, I leveled at 7500' and retained FF while I orbited Manhattan around sunset. Once complete, I advised I'd be heading back out to Farmingdale (eastbound), and was permitted to do a descent through the Bravo, direct JFK then direct FRG. That made it pretty simple!

Normally when I transition east-west in the NYC Bravo it's low altitude, either south shore of JFK at 400' or over LGA tower cab at 1500-2000'. I've also been given a north-south transition right over Manhattan at 6500' on another flight.
 
It is above their airspace. You don't need permission, you aren't required to talk to anyone.
 
TommyG said:
It is above their airspace. You don't need permission, you aren't required to talk to anyone.
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Not required, but it would be common courtesy to let them know your intentions.
 
If you talk to them,they may vector you for their convienence.
 
Scott@KTYR said:
Day Dreaming this morning about flying from Texas to Florida and how to reduce the flying time.

Has anyone had any experience flying over Orlando Class B (KMCO) VFR and/or IFR? Say 10500 or 12500 for VFR? I always use Flight Following on my travels and wondered if ATC would not allow this even though it is above Class B 10000 ceiling.
Click to expand...

If you go high and VFR, I agree with others that overflight is no problem. I overfly C & D airspace all the time and B on occasion.

If you go IFR and your filed altitude is above the B I don't see why they wouldn't clear you direct destination (assuming you're /G?). All good.

And if you're IFR and your altitude puts you inside the B you'll be vectored as traffic dictates - and it still may be nearly direct with a few little dog legs. You never know.

The only problem is if you're VFR and the B airspace is in your way.
 
I've been over Chicago's class B several times. They have to hold the departures out of ORD and MDW to 9000' until they get past you.
 
petrolero said:
If you go IFR and your filed altitude is above the B I don't see why they wouldn't clear you direct destination (assuming you're /G?). All good.

And if you're IFR and your altitude puts you inside the B you'll be vectored as traffic dictates - and it still may be nearly direct with a few little dog legs. You never know.
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Depends where you are. Here in the NY area you'll never get direct to destination unless you're AF1 or an Air Ambulance. Also if you're IFR you won't get vectored around traffic unless the controller screwed something up and was unable to give you adequate separation from the other traffic.
 
Saved a bunch of time yesterday transitioning KATL Bravo. I was flying north and started directly south of ATL. I filed IFR starting from a waypoint well north of and outside of the Bravo. I took off vfr, called approach and requested vfr transition over ATL, telling him my plan to pick up IFR later. I got a squawk code, clearance to 5,500', a couple of vectors and was on my way. Sound like you know what your doing, and it often works. And you get a nice view.
 

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