Flying light sport airplane outside sport rules?

none if it matters with the RV line, the stall speed is to high and getting it below 1320 with any fuel is about impossible. even the lightest RV-4 comes in around 900 lbs empty.
 
Clip4 said:
I am just pointing out that the LSA fan club is on here weekly trying to some how expand the regulatory limitations by trying to see if the FAA left any loop hole open.

I accept the government allows people with substance abuse and some very bad medical history to fly low performance aircraft, it’s the people who have these histories who are unhappy of the restrictions.
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Well , your assumptions are just wrong - as far as accident stats for people flying under Sport Pilot privileges they follow the same pattern as with other certificates - mostly pilot error with medical emergencies being very rare.
In other words, people who have medical issues that would put them at risk of actually having an accident are probably too sick to even bother flying or, alternatively , are very lucky ..
 
Warmi said:
Well , your assumptions are just wrong - as far as accident stats for people flying under Sport Pilot privileges they follow the same pattern as with other certificates - mostly pilot error with medical emergencies being very rare.
In other words, people who have medical issues that would put them at risk of actually having an accident are probably too sick to even bother flying or, alternatively , are very lucky ..
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Or have the common sense and decency to follow regulations and not fly when they know they're not medically fit.
 
unsafervguy said:
none if it matters with the RV line, the stall speed is to high and getting it below 1320 with any fuel is about impossible. even the lightest RV-4 comes in around 900 lbs empty.
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Yes, no RV-4 could ever be LSA compliant, it was just a hypothetical example most every is familiar with.

Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
For the majority of aircraft that qualify as an LSA, Vh is not in the manual.
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No, it doesn't need to be if the max continuous power that gives Vh is specified in the manual and/or placards.
 
DaleB said:
Or have the common sense and decency to follow regulations and not fly when they know they're not medically fit.
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Or fly anyway, irregardless of whether they meet medical requirements for whatever they're flying. Accidents with people flying on expired medicals didn't start with Sport Pilot.

A couple of years back, I did a study of accidents involving medical incapacitation from 2008 through 2017. Found 143 cases. There were seven cases where the pilot did not have a valid medical for an aircraft that required one (e.g., not Sport Pilot eligible). What medicals they had expired an average ~4.5 years prior to the accident.

I just passed my 50th anniversary of passing my Private check ride, and the ~37th anniversary of buying my first aircraft. Since then, the ONLY time I've had to present any certification (pilot or medical) is for a BFR. And no one has ever checked me as to whether I had a current BFR, either.

Until the FAA installs traffic cops at every airport to check the paperwork of EVERY pilot taking off, Sport Pilot doesn't "...let people with substance abuse and some very bad medical history fly..." It provides a basis for people with certain health conditions to legally fly. But the health conditions themselves won't stop aircraft owners from flying unless they decide to stop. No one is checking.

Ron Wanttaja
 
Warmi said:
Well , your assumptions are just wrong - as far as accident stats for people flying under Sport Pilot privileges they follow the same pattern as with other certificates - mostly pilot error with medical emergencies being very rare.
In other words, people who have medical issues that would put them at risk of actually having an accident are probably too sick to even bother flying or, alternatively , are very lucky ..
Click to expand...

Where in my comments did I use the term accident rates?
 
I can pass a medical. I don't/never did drugs, etc...

But if I could buy something that wasn't engineered when my dad was a kid, and save some fuel with that Rotax, maybe a LSA ain't so bad compared to a 150/Tommy/Yankee/Ercoupe.

I'm a fan of the RV12 for instance, for that reason.

I just wish in general LSAs had room to take a wife and her "weekend baggage" on a weekend trip.
 
Your wife likes lots of baggage.

Because you’re surely not implying that it’s her weight requirement that calls for a WWII era troop transport to get her off the ground……..
 
WDD said:
Your wife likes lots of baggage.

Because you’re surely not implying that it’s her weight requirement that calls for a WWII era troop transport to get her off the ground……..
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Well, he is talking about an LSA and a number of them are very restrictive in useful load. The SportCruiser I am teaching in has a useful load* of only 450 lbs, and that's with its BRS removed. Half fueled (15 gallons) that leaves only about 360 lbs for people and their stuff.

(* my worst typo ever)
 
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Palmpilot said:
One caveat, however: my understanding is that speeds that appear solely outside of the Limitations section of the manual are not considered to be limitations.
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A lot of V-speeds are informational rather than limitations. Vne, Vfe, Vle, Va, and stuff like that are generally limitations. OTOH, no rule requires you to climb at Vx or Vy. It's just informing you about your best performance.
 
WDD said:
Your wife likes lots of baggage.

Because you’re surely not implying that it’s her weight requirement that calls for a WWII era troop transport to get her off the ground……..
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Not at all. But there's a reason we take the pickup when we go on vacation... if it exists, it must be packed.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Well, he is talking about an LSA and a number of them are very restrictive in useful load. The SportCruiser I am teaching in has an empty weight of only 450 lbs, and that's with its BRS removed. Half fueled (15 gallons) that leaves only about 360 lbs for people and their stuff.
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RV-12, empty weight 750#, plus 20 gallons leaves 450# with full fuel. There's a 50# weight limit for the baggage area. Like a lot of the planes we fly you can carry full fuel, fill the seats, or fill the baggage compartment, but not all three at the same time.
 
DaleB said:
Not at all. But there's a reason we take the pickup when we go on vacation... if it exists, it must be packed.
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"Everything but the kitchen sink" is how that packing style is described in Minnesota. My mom packs like that. That's why I started doing as much of the packing as possible for family vacations when I was younger. :cool:
 
Overheard over the partition at work: "We were at Disney World for a week and I only took one suitcase of shoes."
 
DaleB said:
RV-12, empty weight 750#, plus 20 gallons leaves 450# with full fuel. There's a 50# weight limit for the baggage area. Like a lot of the planes we fly you can carry full fuel, fill the seats, or fill the baggage compartment, but not all three at the same time.
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Yikes! My worst type ever:
midlifeflyer said:
The SportCruiser I am teaching in has a useful load* of only 450 lbs
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That's 450 before any fuel is added.
 
WDD said:
Your wife likes lots of baggage.

Because you’re surely not implying that it’s her weight requirement that calls for a WWII era troop transport to get her off the ground……..
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My wife is WELL below "standard adult" by enough that she cancels my fat a$$ out and pulls the two of us down to 2 "standard adults."

I'm not even necessarily talking the weight for baggage in some LSA's. I'm talking the actual space for bags, volume.

I looked at one of those Aerotreks recently, with that cubby hole obstructed by structural tubing i don't even know if there's room for your standard flight equipment like a quart of oil and stuff let alone baggage.

And yes, she likes to pack the entire house when we take a trip.
 
LSA is like a motorcycle … good and lots of fun for buzzing around but not necessarily suitable for anything else.
 
Warmi said:
LSA is like a motorcycle … good and lots of fun for buzzing around but not necessarily suitable for anything else.
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Yup... and many people take the occasional longer trip on a bike, and some travel farther than the average GA pilot. But it takes a different mindset, and you can't do it as reliably.
 
I was reading through this thread and I am quite surprised that nobody has used the same type of reasoning used in the original post.
If I am certificated to PP-ASEL (Private Pilot), can I fly an LSA beyond the published limits of Light Sport Aircraft (airplane).
To carry the example further:

If I have endorsements for Aerobatic, can I perform acrobatic maneuvers in any Normal rated airplane?

At least that was my interpretation.
 
Dry Creek said:
I was reading through this thread and I am quite surprised that nobody has used the same type of reasoning used in the original post.
If I am certificated to PP-ASEL (Private Pilot), can I fly an LSA beyond the published limits of Light Sport Aircraft (airplane).
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What answer are you thinking hasn’t been given?
To carry the example further:

If I have endorsements for Aerobatic, can I perform acrobatic maneuvers in any Normal rated airplane?
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What “endorsements” are available for Aerobatic?
 
You can’t fly beyond that specific planes’s limitations in the POH

If a normally rated plane prohibits acrobatics then no. If it allows then yes.
 
MauleSkinner said:
What answer are you thinking hasn’t been given?

What “endorsements” are available for Aerobatic?
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All answers provided were great, except for the catfighting about SP vs PP. I was just wondering why a litany of comparisons weren't provided. If I have ATP can I load 50 people into my C-172?

And right, there are no required endorsement for aerobatics, just equipment required for bank angles and pitch angles. I was wrong about needing a specific endorsement or any actual training.
 
Dry Creek said:
I was just wondering why a litany of comparisons weren't provided.
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The answers were given…why would “a litany” of comparisons be relevant?

Dry Creek said:
If I have ATP can I load 50 people into my C-172?
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I’m not sure how that question would be at all relevant, either.
 
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Dry Creek said:
All answers provided were great, except for the catfighting about SP vs PP. I was just wondering why a litany of comparisons weren't provided. If I have ATP can I load 50 people into my C-172?

And right, there are no required endorsement for aerobatics, just equipment required for bank angles and pitch angles. I was wrong about needing a specific endorsement or any actual training.
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I'm not sure how you can say that hasn't been answered. It was.
 
Dana said:
Yup... and many people take the occasional longer trip on a bike, and some travel farther than the average GA pilot. But it takes a different mindset, and you can't do it as reliably.
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The LSAs that I flown have not appeared to have any more reliability problems than the normal airplanes I have flown.
 
Dry Creek said:
can I fly an LSA beyond the published limits of Light Sport Aircraft (airplane).
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What do you mean by flying "beyond the published limits"?
Over the published gross weight?
Exceeding the maximum continuous horsepower limits?
Put a third person in the baggage area?
Put the nose down and exceed red line?
Or, ???
 
Dry Creek said:
I was reading through this thread and I am quite surprised that nobody has used the same type of reasoning used in the original post.
If I am certificated to PP-ASEL (Private Pilot), can I fly an LSA beyond the published limits of Light Sport Aircraft (airplane).
To carry the example further:

If I have endorsements for Aerobatic, can I perform acrobatic maneuvers in any Normal rated airplane?

At least that was my interpretation.
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Sport pilots have more limitations under the regs than light-sport aircraft do.
 
Palmpilot said:
The LSAs that I flown have not appeared to have any more reliability problems than the normal airplanes I have flown.
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That's because you are a young guy and are not aware that this whole thing has been tried (and failed) before.
But, back in the 1930's a number of manufacturers tried to build light, two place, inexpensive aircraft that would fall within the limits of what is now an LSA. One example that you MAY have heard about, even if you don't know all the history, was the Piper Cub. They made quite a few, but since they were so light, slow, and limited in capability, and easily damaged due to the limited weight, they never caught on. And, other than a handful that were saved in museums, you are not ever likely to actually see one yourself.
 
Dry Creek said:
If I am certificated to PP-ASEL (Private Pilot), can I fly an LSA beyond the published limits of Light Sport Aircraft (airplane).
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You can fly a Light Sport airplane beyond the limits of a Sport Pilot, assuming you have a valid medical or Basic Med. For example, you can fly at night if the plane is equipped to do so. Our E-LSA gets flown at night pretty regularly.

If you can fly the plane beyond the published limits of a Light Sport airplane, then I’d say it’s not a Light Sport airplane. Or you’re loading it over gross, or (wink wink) “overspeeding” the engine.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
That's because you are a young guy and are not aware that this whole thing has been tried (and failed) before.
But, back in the 1930's a number of manufacturers tried to build light, two place, inexpensive aircraft that would fall within the limits of what is now an LSA. One example that you MAY have heard about, even if you don't know all the history, was the Piper Cub. They made quite a few, but since they were so light, slow, and limited in capability, and easily damaged due to the limited weight, they never caught on. And, other than a handful that were saved in museums, you are not ever likely to actually see one yourself.
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Hey! Who are you calling young???!!! :mad::p;)
 
bflynn said:
So, question -

If you have an airplane certified for light sport, can you fly it in excess of light sport rules as a private pilot? Specifically, it a plane is limited in speed because of sport rules, can you go faster?

Thinking out loud -

Suppose you have an E-LSA that meets the criteria, for the purposes of this, let's call it an early 2 seat RV that was carefully built to be under 1320 gross.

The engine easily powers it past 120 kts, but the manual says Vne is 120 to comply with E-SLA rules. The airplane is engineered to far higher speeds and absent the E-SLA designation, can safely fly faster.

I think the legal answer is no? But I can't figure out why
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All limitations for the aircraft will be in the POH.
 
You modern guys and your aircraft that have a POH....
 
Palmpilot said:
The LSAs that I flown have not appeared to have any more reliability problems than the normal airplanes I have flown.
Click to expand...

I was speaking of mission reliability, the ability to get where you're going considering weather and time constraints. In this, a slow VFR-only aircraft is less reliable... but very rewarding when it works out.
 
Dana said:
I was speaking of mission reliability, the ability to get where you're going considering weather and time constraints. In this, a slow VFR-only aircraft is less reliable... but very rewarding when it works out.
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Ya just gotta lower your weather minimums. Plus the bonus of higher speed/lower fuel flow in ground effect!
 
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