Flying Cirrus Over Open Water

RudyP said:
Bold. And if the fan stops midway over on a cold overflight do you ditch it and suffer hypothermic drowning or do you nosedive it in to end things quickly?
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Probably ditch. You are almost certainly going to die, but there's always the outside chance of rescue. Could be someone's helicopter was nearby for an unrelated reason. You might even spot a boat on the way down.

RudyP said:
Do you do this with passengers?
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I have, and he understood the risk.
 
EdFred said:
Been over Lake Michigan in Spring, Summer, Winter, Fall with no life jackets. If it's my time, it's my time.

Heck one time I even crossed Lake Michigan and was never above 1500' - MSL.
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Did the same with no life vests going from Wisconsin to Beaver Island then Mackinac. Wasn't too worried about it.
 
Kiddo's Driver said:
I would like to point out that the OP never mentioned Lake Michigan. I did.
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However, I did mean Lake Michigan :) -- the long way (Chicago to Traverse City). I figured that would be about 70nm across.
 
Flew straight across gulf twice in my single engine mooney a year ago. Keep your equipment in great shape and have a plan B and know how to execute it.

Landing in water at 55kts or so at a flat angle shouldn't be a big deal. Now falling off that jetski at 55kts really hurt. The airplane is a heck of a saftey cage.

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Well I know a guy that flew a SR22 from CA to HI then through the Pacific and eventually to Australia, with ferry tanks of course.
 
I don't think it's a good idea to factor the parachute into your risk taking calculations.


That said, 70nm of water with proper water safety equipment aboard, presuming the aircraft is properly maintained, sure I'd do it.
 
There are shorter crossing points than 70nm.
 
Jerry mock completed her round the world flight in her cessna 180 by flying it from Hawaii to California, then on to Ohio.
 
EdFred said:
There are shorter crossing points than 70nm.
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Are you sure that applies to the body of water the OP is talking about, since he never said which one that was?
 
Having flown my chuteless Tiger to the Bahamas and back, sure -- but I'd have LPU's and a raft, just as I did with my Tiger.
 
BGF_Yankee said:
...people do this every day from Florida to the Bahamas. I'm planning a similar trip myself in my Lance. I don't understand the question.
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That was my thought. Keep you plane in good repair. Pay attention to the panel. Make sure you are properly equipped.
Go for it!
And I have had a catastrophic engine failure at 1,000 feet before.
 
I think I'm going to start flying from Texas to Florida across the gulf. I plan on having some life vests, raft, and a PLB. I think we have to weigh the risks and benefits every flight and the same goes for this. I also feel like calm water is like one big open field to land on. At least better than flying over a forest or the mountains. Engine failure over either of those and you're in a world of hurt.
 
JOhnH said:
Oops.
I was wrong.
Sorry.
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You've broken the first rule of forum posting. You're supposed to deflect, twist words, claim that I misunderstood you, and whatever you do, never admit you are wrong. :D
 
EdFred said:
There are shorter crossing points than 70nm.
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True. I was just wondering if you would take the risk crossing it diagonally (shortest distance between PWK and TVC) to shave a few minutes. Because if I am going to start manipulating my crossing points to minimize risk, I might as well spend the extra 20 minutes and go around the lake. Ya know?
 
I'm a student pilot in Guam and our XC flights are over open ocean in the Pacific, one leg is 49NM to Rota and then an other leg to Saipan, 67NM and then back home. To say I'm not concerned would be lying. I'm sure the school has everything needed for safety but what would you take with you on a Cessna 172.
 
polaris said:
True. I was just wondering if you would take the risk crossing it diagonally (shortest distance between PWK and TVC) to shave a few minutes. Because if I am going to start manipulating my crossing points to minimize risk, I might as well spend the extra 20 minutes and go around the lake. Ya know?
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When I did it there was a TFR over Chicago. I would have had to flown down to Peoria and then headed East. I was happy it was a nice day in June. A great day to fly over the lake!
 
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know how many times a plane had to ditch in the water and the raft and life preservers have saved someones butt.
 
Personally, If I trust the airplane, I'm comfortable jumping in a piston single and departing into clouds below minimums at night provided storms and ice aren't an issue and the weather is better where I'm headed. Since I'm comfortable doing that it'd be pretty silly to not be comfortable flying over water...At least that's how I look at it.

I wouldn't have any concerns with crossing Lake Michigan in my Flybaby. That'd be kind of a fun thing to do actually. I'd be topping off the fuel on the shore before I did it though. I suppose I could swap my parachute for a life jacket.
 
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jesse said:
Personally, If I trust the airplane, I'm comfortable jumping in a piston single and departing into clouds below minimums at night provided storms and ice aren't an issue and the weather is better where I'm headed. Since I'm comfortable doing that it'd be pretty silly to not be comfortable flying over water...At least that's how I look at it.
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Of course, the flip side of that reasoning is if you're concerned about flying over water, you ought to be concerned about flying over wilderness with nowhere to put down for miles, no open fields, no airports, no roads. Lots of areas like that in VT and northern NH, and I have to admit it's given me pause. At a certain point one's time out of glide distance to a safe landing is no longer an insignificant fraction of one's total time.
 
James Adkins said:
I'm a student pilot in Guam and our XC flights are over open ocean in the Pacific, one leg is 49NM to Rota and then an other leg to Saipan, 67NM and then back home. To say I'm not concerned would be lying. I'm sure the school has everything needed for safety but what would you take with you on a Cessna 172.
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Risk is cumulative. If this is something you do on a regular basis, your total risk of having an engine-out scenario over water is greatly increased. If you only do it very occasionally, the risk of having an engine-out over water is much smaller. If you roll a die, odds are not in favor of you rolling a six. But if you roll it six times, odds of getting a six at least once are pretty good. Of course, you could get a six on your first roll or three.
 
polaris said:
True. I was just wondering if you would take the risk crossing it diagonally (shortest distance between PWK and TVC) to shave a few minutes. Because if I am going to start manipulating my crossing points to minimize risk, I might as well spend the extra 20 minutes and go around the lake. Ya know?
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I have flown 9D9 -D-> 6Y9 which covers quite a bit of water. But it's not like your wet footprint is that entire distance. Usually I cross at LDM -> MTW.
 
Very different answer if cold versus warm water. Warm water yes...with raft and life jackets.
 
TommyG said:
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know how many times a plane had to ditch in the water and the raft and life preservers have saved someones butt.
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About a month ago, a Cirrus went down near Maui with 'chute and raft. Pilot was directed to an area near a cruise ship. Seas were rough and winds were high. He simply got into the raft and was picked up minutes later.

It's all on a widely viewed YouTube video (no time to find it now).

There's also a widely discussed Bahama's ditching with a Dad and 12 year old daughter...Cirrus SR22. They too simply got out and got picked up.
 
I had to make this decision this weekend on my trip to Chicago. I weighed the pros and cons.

Pros:
- Saves 15 or 20 minutes.
- I'd be on an IFR plan, so I could call for help easily.

Cons:
- almost certain death if the engine fails
- No equipment (life jacket or raft)
- I'm flying a rental.
- Wife is with me, kids are at home.

I went around. In my own plane, or in the summer it might be different. But a rental in early spring leaves too many things that could go wrong.



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VWGhiaBob said:
Very different answer if cold versus warm water. Warm water yes...with raft and life jackets.
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Agreed. My over-water leg to Key West several years ago was about 80nm (in a 172), but in very warm water with numerous boats in sight along the way. Not sure I'd be so willing over Lake Michigan.
 
Being no more time than it is over open water, having a chute and all the gear, and being in radio contact with rescue services being what they are here in the U.S., i'd go for it.... after all, flying is about saving time as well as being fun.

I look at it similarly to flying over Arkansas deep woods for miles and miles. Almost the same thing with nowhere to land and sharks down there with banjo's.:lol: Stay above O5OAGL unless you want bullet holes in your junk. ;):D
 
VWGhiaBob said:
Very different answer if cold versus warm water. Warm water yes...with raft and life jackets.
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A friend and fellow 180 owner died last week when a suspected engine problem forced him into the cold waters of Prince Wlliam Sound near Anchorage. Very sad. Flying comes with risks.
 
Half a mile off the departure end of 27L at KPTK is a lake that's 1/2 mile wide. I've seen planes have to ditch there. If it's gonna happen..............................
 
For VFR pilots does flight following work the same on a flight from Florida to the Bahamas? How's the radar coverage there? I assume it would be pretty good with the ADIZ being right there.

I would also assume if you ditch in that situation and tell ATC they'd have your location and course close enough that a search wouldn't take too long.
 
cowman said:
For VFR pilots does flight following work the same on a flight from Florida to the Bahamas? How's the radar coverage there? I assume it would be pretty good with the ADIZ being right there.

I would also assume if you ditch in that situation and tell ATC they'd have your location and course close enough that a search wouldn't take too long.
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I believe it's mandatory to be on a flight plan either VFR or IFR on flights to the Bahamas
 
jordane93 said:
I believe it's mandatory to be on a flight plan either VFR or IFR on flights to the Bahamas
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Yes, but I'm talking about flight following. On VFR flight following if my engine quits I key my mic and tell someone who is tracking me on their radar screen that I have a problem. There is now someone who knows where I am, who I am, and what's going on before I even hit the water.

They might be able to vector me towards rescue, put me however many minutes of glide range I have closer to help. Either way someone should know within a fairly tight area where the plane went in.... assuming radar coverage in the area.
 
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