Fly Direct GORDE then cleared for the ILS 13

PilotC

PilotC

Filing Flight Plan
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PilotC
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So, I had the ILS 13 loaded into my 430W and I can't find GORDE as an IAF in the procedure. I see it on the plate in ForeFlight but just can't find it to feed the autopilot. So I fumble with getting GORDE typed in and go from there, disconnecting the AP and hand flying.

What could I have done better?
 
Assuming you mean the KGGG ILS 13, GORDE is an intermediate fix on the localizer, 10 miles out. Why not just use the GPS to go direct GORDE and have the localizer tuned and ready, knowing you'll intercept it when you reach GORDE?
 
Ach! I see it now, thanks. GORDE is an (IF) not an (IAF) and that explains why It did not show up when trying to load the ILS procedure. I did use D>, GORDE, Enter, Enter. Where I failed was then trying to reload the approach. I think I should have used FPL and entered it before the ILS? Then the 430 would have sequenced it correctly?
 
You could have loaded and activated the Approach with VEELS as the IAF. Now go direct GORDE.

EDIT: Activate the Approach from either GODHO or SKIDI as the IAF, not VEELS. See @aterpster post #9
 
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luvflyin said:
You could have loaded and activated the Approach with VEELS as the IAF. Now go direct GORDE.
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That won't work because VEELS is the procedure turn fix, which does not sequence to GORDE. In fact, at least in the G-1000, VEELS is not a selection to begin the approach, GGG is selectable as the feeder fix to VEELS. But, to get GORDE you have to select either GODHO or SKIDI then go direct GORDE. Or, depending upon the avionics and software, VTF may provide GORDE as the first fix. It does in the G-1000.
 
aterpster said:
That won't work because VEELS is the procedure turn fix, which does not sequence to GORDE. In fact, at least in the G-1000, VEELS is not a selection to begin the approach, GGG is selectable as the feeder fix to VEELS. But, to get GORDE you have to select either GODHO or SKIDI then go direct GORDE. Or, depending upon the avionics and software, VTF may provide GORDE as the first fix. It does in the G-1000.
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Yes. I was using ForeFlight to see what fixes were displayed when choosing each IAF. GORDE showed from VEELS but not from GODHO or SKIDI. I just did it on a 430 simulator and GORDE does not sequence from VEELS but does from GODHO and SKIDI.
 
PilotC said:
So, I had the ILS 13 loaded into my 430W and I can't find GORDE as an IAF in the procedure. I see it on the plate in ForeFlight but just can't find it to feed the autopilot. So I fumble with getting GORDE typed in and go from there, disconnecting the AP and hand flying.

What could I have done better?
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Heading mode on the autopilot?

Obviously if you're cleared to a fix, you have to somehow navigate to that fix, but I'm not sure why disengaging the autopilot is part of that discussion.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Heading mode on the autopilot?

Obviously if you're cleared to a fix, you have to somehow navigate to that fix, but I'm not sure why disengaging the autopilot is part of that discussion.
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This. Put the AP in HDG mode and get yourself headed to the fix as you see it on ForeFlight. Then get the GPS reprogrammed to the fix.
 
Fearless Tower said:
This. Put the AP in HDG mode and get yourself headed to the fix as you see it on ForeFlight. Then get the GPS reprogrammed to the fix.
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Better yet, ask for an initial vector for GORDE until you get it programmed. I haven't looked at ForeFlight, but I'm guessing it has prohibitions similar to the MFD map on jets against being used for primary NAV.
 
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luvflyin said:
Yes. I was using ForeFlight to see what fixes were displayed when choosing each IAF. GORDE showed from VEELS but not from GODHO or SKIDI. I just did it on a 430 simulator and GORDE does not sequence from VEELS but does from GODHO and SKIDI.
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I guess the moral to that story is ForeFlight isn't the "real thing" in the context of RNAV databases.
 
aterpster said:
I guess the moral to that story is ForeFlight isn't the "real thing" in the context of RNAV databases.
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Ain't that the truth. It seemed a little odd that a fix showed up along the inbound course of a PT. I should have waited until I got to where I could get to the 430 simulator before posting. My bad
 
Load up the approach at one of the IAFs and then spin the knob to select GORDE and press the DIRECT button. At least that's how I'd do it with the 480.
 
FWIW, the Jeppesen plan view portrays the fact that GORDO is not a fix on the procedure turn. FAA chart isn't so clear.
 

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aterpster said:
FWIW, the Jeppesen plan view portrays the fact that GORDO is not a fix on the procedure turn. FAA chart isn't so clear.
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Yeah. Looking at a Jepp seems to clear things up a lot of the time. Is there a way to look at them without subscribing? Probably not and I understand they don't stay in business giving things away.
 
luvflyin said:
Yeah. Looking at a Jepp seems to clear things up a lot of the time. Is there a way to look at them without subscribing? Probably not and I understand they don't stay in business giving things away.
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No freebies. But, the entire 48 states for $199 per year on ForeFlight starting this summer is quite reasonable.
 
aterpster said:
No freebies. But, the entire 48 states for $199 per year on ForeFlight starting this summer is quite reasonable.
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Depends on your definition of "reasonable". ;)

Considering that I pay less than that for Foreflight itself, which includes NACO charts and plates for ALL the US states, AK and HI included (georeferenced no less), I'm not sure I would agree.
 
azure said:
Depends on your definition of "reasonable". ;)

Considering that I pay less than that for Foreflight itself, which includes NACO charts and plates for ALL the US states, AK and HI included (georeferenced no less), I'm not sure I would agree.
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No doubt "reasonable" is a relative word.
 
This is called being flustered.

If you were sitting in your comfy chair at home, you'd find it in a few seconds. So, since you needed time, I suggest asking ATC for an initial heading for GORDE. Dial that in, and while George is flying there, you have some breathing room to regroup.
 
aterpster said:
No doubt "reasonable" is a relative word.
Click to expand...

Considering I was paying $149 for Geo-referenced ForeFlight (50 states) last year I guess reasonable is relative.
 
PilotC said:
Considering I was paying $149 for Geo-referenced ForeFlight (50 states) last year I guess reasonable is relative.
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If $199 for Jepp charts is unreasonable to you, don't pay it.

For me, $149 for government charts is less reasonable than $199 for Jepp.
 
flyingron said:
Load up the approach at one of the IAFs and then spin the knob to select GORDE and press the DIRECT button. At least that's how I'd do it with the 480.
Click to expand...

aterpster said:
Works the same in the 430.
Click to expand...

I think this would have been the best. that and more practice so that using the equipment becomes mare second nature. The Heading mode was not working as expected because when HDG is pressed with GPSS set on the Aspen, then it works in GPSS mode, not HDG. Something pointed out to me by an instructor and something that I already have a label made for. It goes on when I get her out of annual. I could (should?) have turned GPSS off. Again, more practice and becoming familiar with my kit.

Carl
 
MauleSkinner said:
If $199 for Jepp charts is unreasonable to you, don't pay it.

For me, $149 for government charts is less reasonable than $199 for Jepp.
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It's only a matter of time until the cost of FAA charts is shifted from the taxpayers to the users. That rumble comes and go.
 
spiderweb said:
This is called being flustered.

If you were sitting in your comfy chair at home, you'd find it in a few seconds. So, since you needed time, I suggest asking ATC for an initial heading for GORDE. Dial that in, and while George is flying there, you have some breathing room to regroup.
Click to expand...

I think you nailed it. First actual instrument in quite a while without an instructor or safety aboard and not getting the call I expected. Reading all the answers has helped me get a handle on this particular scenario.
 
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flyingron said:
Load up the approach at one of the IAFs and then spin the knob to select GORDE and press the DIRECT button. At least that's how I'd do it with the 480.
Click to expand...
Yeah. Except I don't think GORDE would be there for you to spin to and select if you loaded it up with VEELS. You'd have to use either GODHO or SKIDI. Thats what I came up with on a 430 Sim
 
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luvflyin said:
Yeah. Except I don't think GORDO would be there for you to spin to and select if you loaded it up with VEELS. You'd have to use either GODHO or SKIDI. Thats what I came up with on a 430 Sim
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Why not. It's an IF (Wally can tell us why it's there at all), but it's not necessary to go there either if you enter at VEELS (you can make the PT before that) or via one of the ARCS (you turn to the localizer before you get there).
 
aterpster said:
It's only a matter of time until the cost of FAA charts is shifted from the taxpayers to the users. That rumble comes and go.
Click to expand...
I don't have a problem with charging for the government plates...I just don't think the value is worth 3/4 of what Jepps cost. ;)
 
flyingron said:
Why not. It's an IF (Wally can tell us why it's there at all), but it's not necessary to go there either if you enter at VEELS (you can make the PT before that) or via one of the ARCS (you turn to the localizer before you get there).
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When I enter GG as the IAF it gives:
GG
proc. turn
VEELS
RW13
ARGEN
hold
There is no GORDE to select and go direct to

When GODHO is the IAF it gives:
GODHO
dme arc
D295J
GORDE
VEELS
RW13
ARGEN
hold
You can select and go direct with this
 
flyingron said:
Why not. It's an IF (Wally can tell us why it's there at all), but it's not necessary to go there either if you enter at VEELS (you can make the PT before that) or via one of the ARCS (you turn to the localizer before you get there).
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DME ARCs terminate at the intermediate fix. There is a different intermediate segment (without an IF) that is evaluated for the procedure turn. In TERPs it's called an intermediate approach segment within the procedure turn.
 
@PilotC - - to back the conversation up a bit for clarity, what was the clearance you were given and where where you when it was issued?
 
aterpster said:
I guess the moral to that story is ForeFlight isn't the "real thing" in the context of RNAV databases.
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It's not. I recently saw an approach for which FF added a PT that isn't on the approach plate or the source document.

BTW, thank you for pointing me to those source documents (another thread). It's helped clear up a few questions, some including charting errors,
 
aterpster said:
It's only a matter of time until the cost of FAA charts is shifted from the taxpayers to the users. That rumble comes and go.
Click to expand...
I have wondered about this. It seems like a policy no-brainer given that Jepp already exists, and more attainable than the push to privatize ATC. What's the other side of that debate?
 
GeorgeC said:
I have wondered about this. It seems like a policy no-brainer given that Jepp already exists, and more attainable than the push to privatize ATC. What's the other side of that debate?
Click to expand...
The other side of the debate generally involves a few main points, one of which is the same economic point made in response to user fees. We do pay for them whenever we buy fuel. There's a $0.21 cent per gallon aviation fuel tax that is supposed to fund aviation. Efficient. Almost impossible to avoid paying. No expenditure for an enforcement bureaucracy. Based directly on use, so all aircraft, large and small, pay their fair share.
 
midlifeflyer said:
It's not. I recently saw an approach for which FF added a PT that isn't on the approach plate or the source document.

BTW, thank you for pointing me to those source documents (another thread). It's helped clear up a few questions, some including charting errors,
Click to expand...
I know the FF VFR charts are amalgams of more than one chart, some of which are changed from the government version, but I thought their approach plates were straight from NACO. Are you saying one of their approach plates had a non-existent PT? Which approach was this? Or am I misreading you?
 
AggieMike88 said:
@PilotC - - to back the conversation up a bit for clarity, what was the clearance you were given and where where you when it was issued?
Click to expand...

Hey Mike, thanks for trying to keep the signal to noise ratio on the signal side. (I know it is hard because I got sucked into a side comment earlier in this very thread.)

The clearance, as I remember it is as in the thread title, direct GORDE then cleared for the ILS 13, Greg County (GGG). I was approximately at ROCKK on the HUBARD NINE Departure.GGG transition. I was expecting either radar vectors or GODHO.

Spiderweb mentioned being flustered and I think that was the case. I didn't see GORDe in the 430 even though I saw it on the plate. I can see why now, but clipping along, that was not obvious to me at the time. (Indicating I need more practice.) I plan on finding and installing a 430 simulator that was mentioned earlier.

(Edit: removed reference to GG LOM. Edit: MEO)
 
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