Flight Following

CC268

CC268

Final Approach
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CC268
Hey guys,

I used Flight Following on my first cross country from KSDL to KPRC yesterday. I called up PHX Approach to get Flight Following (my instructor guided me).

I am a bit confused on who I can ask Flight Following from...is it only Class B and Class C airports? Is it always from Approach?

I spent a little bit of time trying to look this answer up and watched some YouTube videos, but still confused.

Thanks
 
You can ask for flight following an ANY airspace. Sometimes Class D towers are able to get it. Normally approach control, departure, and center. If you are on the ground at any towered airport you can ask ground who to contact and they will tell you and quite possibly may do it for you.

If you depart a Class C or B you will get it on the ground.
 
Hmm I wonder why we didn't ask Scottsdale then...maybe they don't have it.
 
CC268 said:
Hmm I wonder why we didn't ask Scottsdale then...maybe they don't have it.
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That's possible.

Center and TRACON handle flight following directly. You call them (in the appropriate airspace) and they will either say yes or no and handle it. If you happen to be in the wrong airspace or wrong sector, no big deal; they will just tell you who to call. But the point is, Center and TRACON do flight following.

Class D is different. They don't "do" flight following themselves. What they do is arrange flight following with the appropriate facility (usually TRACON). IOW, you ask the tower for FF; the towers relays your request to TRACON; TRACON says OK and gives tower a squawk code; tower then passes it on to you.

A lot of work, huh? It is. The result is, because it's not really their job, some Class D facilities will arrange it for you. Others won't.

As an example, the three towered airports (other than KDEN itself) in the Denver area do not, as a rule, arrange flight following. Ask for it, and they will be happy to give you the TRACON frequency, but you'll have to call and ask your self.

Whether Scottsdale Tower will arrange FF with Phoenix TRACON, I don't know. Sounds like maybe they don't but your CFI certainly knows..
 
I feel stupid but I have never heard of TRACON I guess I will need to look that up!
 
If there is an approach frequency in the A/FD, that's who you call. You can usually guess from the magenta and blue boxes on the TAC. It really isn't a big deal to call the wrong one unless you bust airspace before it's sorted out.

In my limited experience, D's in very complex airspace (like under a B shelf) tend to do the coordination. Others, usually not. I've never had a D coordinate with center, always approach. I prefer to make the request on the ground, and will do so unless I know it won't work. I use flight following for almost everything (except IFR), including air work, radio relay, photos, and search patterns.
 
CC268 said:
I feel stupid but I have never heard of TRACON I guess I will need to look that up!
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Terminal
Radar
Approach
CONtrol

As others have said, when airborne the approach or center controller can get it done. At class D's, ask the ground controllers if they can set it up. If they can, they will. If they cannot, you'll be given the departure frequency and can make your request there.

Since you enjoy reading books, check out "Say Again, Please..." from the www.asa2fly.com website. This a good text for gaining competency in radio comms.
 
CC268 said:
I am a bit confused on who I can ask Flight Following from...
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I always start with Ground at a Delta airfield. If they can not arrange it then departure controller is next step once I am airborne...or departure controller if departing an uncontrolled field.

You can request it from anyone and I start as early in the process as possible and they will tell ya if they can do it or not and point ya in the right direction if they can not.

Another Delta FF quirk example...I fly outta KFUL occasionally...ground can set up FF, but there is a departure procedure that is required if you are on FF (fly 120' after departure) which is counter to my direction of flight...so they often think they are doing me a favor by telling me to get it in the air. I asked them about that to get a clarification. Now I know to tell them that I WANT FF with the 120' heading as on departure there I am in a pretty high workload situation dodging traffic,surrounding airspace, and an aggressive climb for a Bravo Transition that I want, plus the initial 120' heading gives me climbing time and SoCal can be pretty busy so I prefer simply a handoff rather than dealing with establishing FF in the air during all that.

AggieMike88 said:
Since you enjoy reading books, check out "Say Again, Please..."
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Another recommendation for this book!
 
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At KDTO, we can ask Ground to set up FF and get the squawk code. Since we are under the Bravo shelf, it's not uncommon for Regional Departure to automatically grant Bravo clearance on the initial radar contact call.

I don't know how common that is elsewhere, but it is very helpful around DFW.
 
If I'm going to ask for FF, I look up the approach control freq in the AF/D of the airport I'm departing from and I contact them as soon as I'm clear of the pattern. That way, they'll hand me off to the appropriate controller and I don't have to worry about it.

The only draw back is, if the "terminate" following, you're stuck trying to figure out when and who to contact in the next sector. Using AF/D ahead of time, to look up approach freqs for the airports along your route is the way I've always done it.
 
+1 to having the APP/DEP frequency written down. This is a good habit for any pilot.

CC, now that your in the XC phase of your training, spend some time at the kitchen table
familiarizing yourself with how to get needed airport info and frequencies. Especially practice how you would do that while piloting. Be it with paper or iPad, practice the steps to get the desired info at home before you're in the high workload environment of the cockpit.
 
When I did my ATC tower visit a couple weeks ago I asked them this very question. They said anyone can give me flight following (Clearance, Ground, ATC, Departure, Center), but it's best to request it at the earliest opportunity. The Tower Sup said if I'm flying out of KLNK (Class C) I can just let them know on clearance that I want flight following and they'll punch it in right there. Then it will just continue on as they hand me off to departure, and center.
If I'm flying off from an uncontrolled field I can contact departure as soon as I'm airborne or she said it's even fine to contact them prior to takeoff if I want to let them know.
Her general opinion was that the further down the chain you ask for it, it's usually easier for the controllers and you'll get it. If you contact center directly or even approach directly during busier times they might not have the cycles to enter you in and give you a squawk.
 
Get the frequency from the airport information directory or in the GPS airport info page for an Approach or Center frequency. Approach only exists near Class C and B airports, Center is everywhere else. The Approach frequency is on the VFR charts too around Class B and C airports. They usually have one freq coming from each of NSEW directions. Approach, Departure and TRACON all are names for the same entity.
 
CC268 said:
I feel stupid but I have never heard of TRACON I guess I will need to look that up!
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A good source to read about different radar services, such as FF, is the AIM, Airman Information Manual. In the appendix there's a list of terms with an explanation of what they are. A handy thing to have if you come across a term you don't understand or have a clue about. Or just ask on here! :D

ps did you ever post that video of your solo? hmmmmm? c'mon if we're gonna answer your questions for ya we have to see it! ;):)
 
mscard88 said:
A good source to read about different radar services, such as FF, is the AIM, Airman Information Manual. In the appendix there's a list of terms with an explanation of what they are. A handy thing to have if you come across a term you don't understand or have a clue about.
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*obligatory* YEAH BUT THE AIM ISN'T REGULATORY!!!!!111!11!ONE :lol:
 
JCranford said:
I suspect it was a training exercise. He is a student pilot
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Just out of curiosity, what would be the reason to not get flight following. I'm still a very new student pilot, but flight following seems like a good thing to me.
 
tuwood said:
Just out of curiosity, what would be the reason to not get flight following. I'm still a very new student pilot, but flight following seems like a good thing to me.
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I can't think of too many reasons to not get FF on a training cross country flight. I usually don't do FF on one leg of a dual cross country - the one I plan to have a diversion to another airport. Makes it a better surprise ;)

Other reasons come up post-training. Like simply not wanting to talk to anyone.
 
tuwood said:
Just out of curiosity, what would be the reason to not get flight following. I'm still a very new student pilot, but flight following seems like a good thing to me.
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Some people don't like to be "told what to do" even if there is a good reason for it.

For an early student pilot, there is a possibility of overload.

For Mark's scenario, I'd suggest having the student report the diversion, as that's what you do IRL. The reason is "training."

I use FF for nearly everything, as a second set of eyes with a radar is quite helpful.
 
MAKG1 said:
Some people don't like to be "told what to do" even if there is a good reason for it.

For an early student pilot, there is a possibility of overload.

For Mark's scenario, I'd suggest having the student report the diversion, as that's what you do IRL. The reason is "training."

I use FF for nearly everything, as a second set of eyes with a radar is quite helpful.
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I like the idea :) and have thought of it. But I have found it easier, at least in the areas where I have done it, to not have a student (or me) need to explain to ATC that what we are doing is simulated and avoid ATC thinking it's an emergency.
 
Well, I've had several nonemergency diversions on flight following. It's not a big deal to tell them you need fuel or food or a bio break or a VFR landing, or you just want to. I do think students are taught a bit too much that FF is only for cross countries.

Most recently, I diverted to Santa Rosa for an early fuel stop because I noticed all the fuel was coming from one tank, I had no left/right positions on the fuel selector, and I couldn't make it to my destination on half fuel.

I got FF for every single instrument lesson that wasn't in actual. Even flying Pattern A. Made dealing with the nearby Class C trivial, and getting practice approaches pretty easy.
 
MAKG1 said:
Well, I've had several nonemergency diversions on flight following. It's not a big deal to tell them you need fuel or food or a bio break or a VFR landing, or you just want to. I do think students are taught a bit too much that FF is only for cross countries.

Most recently, I diverted to Santa Rosa for an early fuel stop because I noticed all the fuel was coming from one tank, I had no left/right positions on the fuel selector, and I couldn't make it to my destination on half fuel.
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Don't worry. All that gets covered. Just not on one leg of the first dual cross country. It's not necessary to cover everything on every flight for learning to take place.
 
Why I asked the question was to see if he was using it as a substitute for a VFR flight plan. Being a student pilot on a cross country, he for all intents and purposes had one because the instructor would be very aware if he became overdue and initiate SAR if he had to make an off airport landing and was unable to communicate himself. Flight following does not guarantee this.
 
luvflyin said:
Why I asked the question was to see if he was using it as a substitute for a VFR flight plan. Being a student pilot on a cross country, he for all intents and purposes had one because the instructor would be very aware if he became overdue and initiate SAR if he had to make an off airport landing and was unable to communicate himself. Flight following does not guarantee this.
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This sorta sounds like you're mixing up Flight Following with a filed flight plan.

The filed VFR flight plan that is then opened, and doesn't get closed, does initiate SAR if significantly overdue.

But Flight Following, as discussed for the benefit CC268, is more about teaching him how to "get into the system" so that the controllers can provide "radar advisories" of traffic.
 
tuwood said:
Just out of curiosity, what would be the reason to not get flight following. I'm still a very new student pilot, but flight following seems like a good thing to me.
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Mostly because you're going somewhere and don't desire to talk to the controllers. An example could be a short(ish) flight between two airports that you know well and in the pilot's opinion, isn't worth bothering ATC.

These are the targets that will get called out to those communicating with Center and Approach as "Traffic at your __ o'clock, XXX altitude, type unknown" which means ATC sees the target, but isn't talking with them.

Like most, I prefer to use Flight Following on any cross country flight, or flights within busy airspace (such as going from KDTO on the NW side of the DFW Bravo to KRBD on the SE side)
 
Flying up and down the east coast ,flight following is a necessity,with all the military ,and restricted areas.you can get the freqs. From the AFD ,and most portable ,or fixed GPS units.
 
Thanks for all the help guys!
 
mscard88 said:
A good source to read about different radar services, such as FF, is the AIM, Airman Information Manual. In the appendix there's a list of terms with an explanation of what they are. A handy thing to have if you come across a term you don't understand or have a clue about. Or just ask on here! :D

ps did you ever post that video of your solo? hmmmmm? c'mon if we're gonna answer your questions for ya we have to see it! ;):)
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I have been real busy but I will try to get it up sometime!
 
AggieMike88 said:
This sorta sounds like you're mixing up Flight Following with a filed flight plan.

The filed VFR flight plan that is then opened, and doesn't get closed, does initiate SAR if significantly overdue.

But Flight Following, as discussed for the benefit CC268, is more about teaching him how to "get into the system" so that the controllers can provide "radar advisories" of traffic.
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Got that. It's a pet peeve of mine when students are led to believe that Flight Following is a substitute for a VFR flight plan. Just wanted make sure he knew that if he's getting it, gets terminated, and then goes down, he needs to have a VFR flight plan if he wants SAR to come looking for him when he becomes overdue.
 
AggieMike88 said:
This sorta sounds like you're mixing up Flight Following with a filed flight plan.

The filed VFR flight plan that is then opened, and doesn't get closed, does initiate SAR if significantly overdue.

But Flight Following, as discussed for the benefit CC268, is more about teaching him how to "get into the system" so that the controllers can provide "radar advisories" of traffic.
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While certainly not the primary purpose, there is a SAR function to flight following also. ATC is supposed to consider an aircraft receiving flight following to be having an emergency if it is incommunicado without terminating service and initiate SAR.

As the AIM puts it
Radar facilities providing radar flight following or advisories consider the loss of radar and radios, without service termination notice, to be a possible emergency. Pilots receiving VFR services from radar facilities should be aware that SAR may be initiated under these circumstances.​

That, of course, doesn't remove the need for a VFR flight plan
 
midlifeflyer said:
While certainly not the primary purpose, there is a SAR function to flight following also. ATC is supposed to consider an aircraft receiving flight following to be having an emergency if it is incommunicado without terminating service and initiate SAR.
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I've seen them do this. It really happens.

While taking photos in a TFR of one of the big wildfires last summer (I was right seat), we decided we needed a fuel stop. The pilot landed at the nearest airport outside the TFR and forgot to tell Center. When we came back up, he requested FF again, and got a phone number to call. It's not illegal, but it's rude, and an ALNOT went out for us.

The drawback of using it as a substitute for a VFR flight plan is that FF can be dropped without warning or refused entirely, due to workload or radar/radio coverage issues. If you're flying around the big rocks at a spot where radio coverage is spotty and Center loses contact, they will NOT go looking for you. They will assume you flew behind a mountain. This could be a very serious problem if you crash in a remote area, even if you land perfectly. Radio coverage holes in cities are not rare. I've lost contact over the Carquinez Strait near Vallejo, CA due to terrain shadowing.
 
Few reasons not to get it, super short hops, or if you know you're out of their radar range. Now if user fees ever get into the equation that's going to be a whole nother story on why folks won't talk to ATC
 
When not IFR, I usually don't use FF, but that's just me. Consider using it regularly early on, just so you're comfortable doing so? Then later, if you don't want it it, no big deal.

As for why not, it depends! Once in the "system", you're obliged to comply with ATC instructions, and that may or may not align with what you want to do, as to headings, or altitudes, etc. Sometimes I just like the radio silence, usually when down low, or if I just want to wander about.
 
Here's something I've wondered, as someone who hasn't yet used flight following while en route. Do controllers prefer to be told "flight following" at the beginning of your request or at the end? It logically makes more sense to me to say "N123A request flight following, type PA28, over ABC VORTAC, level 5,500" so they know from the beginning why you are telling them the rest of it. But examples I've found for how to request flight following always put the actual nature of the request at the end of the transmission. Is one better than the other?
 
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