Flight Cancelled

luvflyin

luvflyin

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Luvflyin
Santa Barbara to Portland on Alaska. They said the earliest they could get her, it’s my wife, out of there was Saturday. That’s 2 nights. Said they don’t have to offer Lodging or pay anything because it’s because of weather. Is that true?
 
Yes, a weather cancelation is not the airline's problem. So, you are on your own. I had one a couple of years ago in Chicago. Had to go to the hotel at the airport terminal. It was just after 11 pm, and the rate was $160 for the night. I asked about a discount and the desk clerk said, "You're getting the discount. It was $230 for the night before 11." I spent six hours in that room before heading to catch my flight the next morning.
 
Katamarino said:
Airlines are known for stretching the "weather" excuse well beyond the bounds of legitimacy.
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They are doing that. I’m looking at Flight Aware. There are planes landing and departing SBA and PDX and flying on the routes between. Now let’s say the weather made it impossible for the crew and other personnel get to work. It’s really nasty in Portland now. City traffic is a mess. Snow, below freezing temps. People have abandoned cars blocking snowplows etc etc. I suppose they can play the weather card for that???
 
You (your wife) can complain to the airlines, formally and on social media and complain to FAA. Might help, might not.
 
TCABM said:
You (your wife) can complain to the airlines, formally and on social media and complain to FAA. Might help, might not.
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If I find out that their employees commuting to work thing isn't allowed, then we'll with start with Alaska.
 
When the flight cancels you can take the replacement flights offered by the airline or you can get a full refund. You can choose to have the refund in cash (well, returned back to the original credit card) and you do NOT have to accept the refund in airline credit vouchers, though that's what they'll probably offer at first.

If you want to be rerouted, do your own research and decide on what flights you want to be on. Know what options are available when you talk to the airline. You can also standby for earlier flights which are showing as full. It isn't unusual for seats to open up on those flight by departure time.

If the airline can't provide acceptable options, you have the right to a full refund and make sure it goes back to the original form of payment.

When weather impact an operation, overall system capacity is reduced. Flights must be delayed and cancelled because the system is no longer capable of handling the volume. These are still weather (uncontrollable) cancellations under DoT rules.

If it is an airline's hub airport that is impacted, switching to another airline, with a different hub, can often work. The non-hub airline had relatively few flights at the impacted airline so that airline is not as significantly impacted by the weather.
 
Larry in TN said:
When the flight cancels you can take the replacement flights offered by the airline or you can get a full refund. You can choose to have the refund in cash (well, returned back to the original credit card) and you do NOT have to accept the refund in airline credit vouchers, though that's what they'll probably offer at first.

If you want to be rerouted, do your own research and decide on what flights you want to be on. Know what options are available when you talk to the airline. You can also standby for earlier flights which are showing as full. It isn't unusual for seats to open up on those flight by departure time.

If the airline can't provide acceptable options, you have the right to a full refund and make sure it goes back to the original form of payment.

When weather impact an operation, overall system capacity is reduced. Flights must be delayed and cancelled because the system is no longer capable of handling the volume. These are still weather (uncontrollable) cancellations under DoT rules.

If it is an airline's hub airport that is impacted, switching to another airline, with a different hub, can often work. The non-hub airline had relatively few flights at the impacted airline so that airline is not as significantly impacted by the weather.
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She took getting booked on the same flight Saturday. The only thing close to being available was to get to KSBP and get a SBP PDX flight there at 1800. Some people were doing it. United and Southwest, the only other ones doing SBA PDX were already sold out.
 
Gilbert Buettner said:
I spent six hours in that room before heading to catch my flight the next morning.
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I have spent longer time than that sleeping in the airport..... me being a cheap pilot and all that...

But yeah, sometimes it is nice to have a place to rest and clean up before the next flight, even if it is for only a few hours.
 
This is why they sell trip insurance.
 
Weather and ATC are the usual excuses, but often one or both of those contribute to crewmember logistics in getting to an airport with perfectly good weather and no problems with ATC. So a staffing problem gets chalked off as a non-reimbursable event. I've had it happen to me and gotten nowhere with an argument with the airline.
 
Katamarino said:
Airlines are known for stretching the "weather" excuse well beyond the bounds of legitimacy.
Click to expand...

My favorite was when I delivered super cub to a small town airport in Montana. They did have two scheduled flights a day out of the airport both in the morning. I spent the night. Ay about 5 am the airline called an told me the 1st flight had been cancelled but I could catch the later 10am flight. I arrived about 9 am for the 10am flight just in time to see the guy at the counter with the counter person telling him the 2nd flight had been cancelled due to weather. At which point the guy told the counter person that he worked for the National Weather Service and had literally wrote that mornings weather report saying it was barely even marginal weather. At which point I chimed in that I had just looked at the aviation weather and I could easily fly one of my single engine aircraft out if there under VFR conditions to Missoula where the flight was going to.

Of course the counter person just told us that she was telling us what she had been told. So I hitched a ride with the NWS guy to Great Falls where we both caught our connecting flights.

Brian
 
Gilbert Buettner said:
Yes, a weather cancelation is not the airline's problem. So, you are on your own. I had one a couple of years ago in Chicago. Had to go to the hotel at the airport terminal. It was just after 11 pm, and the rate was $160 for the night. I asked about a discount and the desk clerk said, "You're getting the discount. It was $230 for the night before 11." I spent six hours in that room before heading to catch my flight the next morning.
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Also been stuck in Chicago…we opted to sleep in the terminal. Well, I slept. My wife not so much.
Katamarino said:
Airlines are known for stretching the "weather" excuse well beyond the bounds of legitimacy.
Click to expand...
As Larry said, when the weather problems create crew problems, they’re still weather problems. Unfortunately the people communicating that to the clients are either ignorant or intentionally kept in the dark, so they make things up, like, “it’s foggy in Kansas.” No, it’s clear in Kansas, and forecast to stay that way. “It’s foggy between here and there, and they can’t fly through fog.” Right.
eman1200 said:
have you told them you're a pilot yet? show them all the metars from point A to B and then say "show me the money". I think that works every time.
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For sure don’t tell ‘em you’re not…you’ll end up on an airline watchlist.
 
lsaway said:
This is why they sell trip insurance.
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You'd better check carefully the policy. A lot won't cover weather delays either or the coverage is minimal (like $100). We had a full up hurricane at our destination and the travel insurance still weaseled out.
 
eman1200 said:
have you told them you're a pilot yet? show them all the metars from point A to B and then say "show me the money". I think that works every time.
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Maybe not every time. But once I was able to get concessions because they played the weather card and I called them on it. It wasn't the weather, just bad scheduling.
 
flyingron said:
You'd better check carefully the policy. A lot won't cover weather delays either or the coverage is minimal (like $100). We had a full up hurricane at our destination and the travel insurance still weaseled out.
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$100 is $100. I would take it.

I normally do NOT get trip insurance, as over time, you more than pay out more than you would get. Things don't happen that often.

I have over 3 million airline miles, and can count on one hand the number of times I have had to stay over and it cost out of my pocket (or if traveling for work my employer). And one of those made me stay in Hawaii an extra 4 days. That was HORRIBLE. Oh, and it was a work trip, so did not have to take days off and got reimbursed for the hotel. :D
 
EdFred said:
Maybe not every time. But once I was able to get concessions because they played the weather card and I called them on it. It wasn't the weather, just bad scheduling.
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"To whom it may concern...I am a pilot and my METAR MAP shows all green......."

upload_2023-2-24_9-3-32.png
 
eman1200 said:
"To whom it may concern...I am a pilot and my METAR MAP shows all green......."
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If it wasn't green where the crew or the aircraft was coming from, the airline usually blames the weather (or ATC) for the cancellation. There were over 2200 airline cancellations yesterday but you can bet that many of those involved flights between destinations with perfectly good weather.
 
Years ago, a big storm had delayed my trip several days. I finally got to my hub airport, with one commuter leg left to get home. The agents at the regional (Beech 1900s) desk were scrambling to get folks on their way, saying they were short of crew, due to timeouts, etc. I flashed my ATP certificate, and the agent turned around and yelled "Somebody get this guy a hat!" Pretty funny. (I ended up renting a car to drive 6 hours vs. 2 more days of delay).
 
Very few airline flights would be delayed or cancelled if they were the only flights to/from their airports. It is very rare that the weather is ever so bad that we can't complete the flight safely.

Weather delays and cancellations occur when weather reduces the overall system (ATC, airport, and airline) capacity and flights have to be reduced and delayed in order to match capacity. Those are weather delays.
 
flyingron said:
You'd better check carefully the policy. A lot won't cover weather delays either or the coverage is minimal (like $100). We had a full up hurricane at our destination and the travel insurance still weaseled out.
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I'm reminded of the time I shipped my Christmas gifts from my parents' home to my college address and added insurance. Several items were damaged. The insurance remedy was to send the damaged items back to the sender. So my broken Christmas gifts were just dumped at my parents' house. I don't need to mention which shipper that was, because its major competitors have all done equally absurd things to me.

There are types of insurance that make sense to buy. But I don't think travel insurance is one of them. I've never heard of someone who made a travel insurance claim and then ever paid for it on another trip. That being said, if you have coverage (whether purchased separately or automatic through your credit card or employer or anything else) then you should absolutely get the maximum remedy out of it that you can.
 
This must be the “passengers of America” forum.
 
iamtheari said:
I'm reminded of the time I shipped my Christmas gifts from my parents' home to my college address and added insurance. Several items were damaged. The insurance remedy was to send the damaged items back to the sender. So my broken Christmas gifts were just dumped at my parents' house. I don't need to mention which shipper that was, because its major competitors have all done equally absurd things to me.
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I had a well-protected (I thought) glass item in my checked baggage one year when flying home for Christmas. It arrived broken. I called the airline, not having much hope for compensation, and was told that their baggage coverage excluded fragile items. I asked how they defined 'fragile', and was told in all seriousness 'anything that breaks'.
 
GaryM said:
I had a well-protected (I thought) glass item in my checked baggage one year when flying home for Christmas. It arrived broken. I called the airline, not having much hope for compensation, and was told that their baggage coverage excluded fragile items. I asked how they defined 'fragile', and was told in all seriousness 'anything that breaks'.
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Was that on Yossarian Airlines flight 22?
 
Larry in TN said:
Very few airline flights would be delayed or cancelled if they were the only flights to/from their airports. It is very rare that the weather is ever so bad that we can't complete the flight safely.

Weather delays and cancellations occur when weather reduces the overall system (ATC, airport, and airline) capacity and flights have to be reduced and delayed in order to match capacity. Those are weather delays.
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This.

When I was coding delays we couldn’t use weather without a good reason. The airline would often err to something else. I had to eat several MX delays when local weather was causing the real delay.
 
3393RP said:
Read post #26.

Give it up.
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No. This is my mountain to die on.:mad2::incazzato: Not really, I get it now that Alaska is off the hook. I found out that the ‘trip protection’ they sold me was through a third party Insurance company. Talked to them on the phone, she’s covered, just gotta file the claim. Alaska is still in the picture though. I have to get some kind of statement from them that the flight was actually cancelled and the first thing they could get her out of SBA on was two days later. Agent at the airport said they couldn’t do it, she’d have to contact Corporate. Wonder how much of an adventure that will be. Hope that doesn’t turn into a battle.
 
Bacho said:
This.

When I was coding delays we couldn’t use weather without a good reason. The airline would often err to something else. I had to eat several MX delays when local weather was causing the real delay.
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What if the only issue was employees not being able to drive get to work because of the weather. The Flight was a PDX SBA PDX flight. I expect that the plane was at PDX to start the flight.
 
luvflyin said:
Wonder how much of an adventure that will be. Hope that doesn’t turn into a battle.
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They're trained to do battle. I stopped flying USAir after getting delayed from a connecting flight in Philadelphia because the ground crew didn't get to the plane to unload until almost half an hour after pulling up to the gate, so we missed the last flight of the day for our destination. I was told that the hotel would be paid for, but I'd have to arrange that in the morning. When I spoke to an agent in the morning I was told that since my connecting flight wasn't made through USAir they wouldn't pay for my lodging. When I asked him why they told me otherwise the night before, the agent admitted that they just told me that to get me to leave the counter.

Needless to say, they never replied to the angry letters I wrote to Corporate.
 
luvflyin said:
What if the only issue was employees not being able to drive get to work because of the weather.
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Weather.

What actually happens is ATC reduces the number of operations it will allow at the airport and informs the airlines. The airlines reduce their schedule to match the number of operations they have been allocated. When that's at an airline's hub airport, that airline will be impacted much harder than other airlines serving the airport because most of the flights at that airport are their's.

When weather reducing the number of employees available, some can't get in and other are taken from their normal duties for snow removal, deicing, etc., and less of the ground equipment is working, because machine always seem to break in extreme weather, the airline reduces their schedule to match their temporarily-reduced capabilities.

In reality, a lot of this is guessing. ATC or airline reductions turn out to be either too much or too little. When it's too little you can end up with massive delays on the flights that are still operating. Unfortunately, 20/20 hindsight is not particularly helpful at the time the decisions are being made. They do their best with what they know at the time.
 
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