Fixed Leg Options for 3-4 people 135 or more kts

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by WDD, Mar 23, 2021.

  1. WDD

    WDD Pattern Altitude

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    Which ones? :)
     
  2. asicer

    asicer Final Approach

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    Grummans' were pretty honest.
     
  3. Jim K

    Jim K Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    True. Pipers have that handy calculator built into the asi.

    Pricy for sure. I'd rather have a six for the same or less money. Club dakota has 1251 useful, more than most of the saratogas. I don't know what you'd do with much more in a four seater. Are there chargers with higher than that?
     
  4. Groundpounder

    Groundpounder Pattern Altitude

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  5. luvflyin

    luvflyin Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Yes. Maybe not all, but mine did. Airspeed indicator seemed accurate.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2021
  6. Racerx

    Racerx Line Up and Wait

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    1450 useful. But agree on the six, plus 7 extra inches of shoulder room...it's a godsend. Problem is right now the prices have skyrocketed where I haven't seen anything decent under 100k
     
  7. WDD

    WDD Pattern Altitude

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    Great information and great thinking here - appreciate it. In 2-3 years when I get to the point of actually hunting I'll just have to see what the insurance environment is for retracts. Good to know that Archers and Tigers can be in the mix.

    My main concern with an Archer was speed, but if I can clean it up (updated pants, etc.) and get 120kts, that would work. I had also ruled out a Tiger, but after rereading posts on it I think it can work as well. My concern with the Tiger was short field / grass strips, but I "think" it would work on a 2600 grass strip

    It will come down to insurance environment, availability, and prices. A fixed gear Cardinal from 77 and 78 could work for example, but finding that would be next to impossible. A 182 with pants would be just fine- but I doubt if those prices will ever come down. Will any Tigers be available, let alone in an affordable price range? Probably not - but we shall see.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2021
  8. Spinka

    Spinka Filing Flight Plan

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    There is a an aircraft with nice handling and fixed gear, that would satisfy your speed requirement, but it's made of wood and you'll not find one in the States. Robin Dr.400.
     
  9. k9medic

    k9medic Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I just pulled up a photo of a friend's Archer that I was flying several years ago. The Aspen showed 111kts at 7000'. This was during a Florida summer so you could probably figure the TAS to be around 125kts.
     
  10. Brad Z

    Brad Z Final Approach

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    I didn't see a Cessna 205 mentioned on here anywhere. They're relatively rare and nearly 60 years old, but one in decent shape would probably get the job done.
     
  11. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator Final Approach

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    The fixed-gear Cessna 336 can be had for close to half the cost of a Tiger/182/Dakota. That buys a lot of fuel and maintenance. . . although with twin engines you'll need that money, lol.
     
  12. mondtster

    mondtster En-Route

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    They will, but it won’t be done in a typical ragged out rental Archer.

    My friend owned a 2012 archer for a while, it would consistently true out at 125+ at altitudes you would actually fly it at (less than 10,000 feet). Obvious it was clean and new but I’d expect a decent Archer II to perform similarly.
     
  13. WDD

    WDD Pattern Altitude

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    Ah. So if I get an Archer II or III, put some of the new designed pants on all wheels that cover all of the wheels parts, clean it up and have a decent engine I could get 120 or 125 kts?
     
  14. mondtster

    mondtster En-Route

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    Obviously there are no guarantees, but I’d expect a properly rigged and reasonably clean Archer to do that.

    My friends plane was 100% as delivered by Piper, nothing special. The older planes have had a lot more time for pilots and mechanics to get their fingers in things and mess with them so close scrutiny may be needed.
     
  15. WDD

    WDD Pattern Altitude

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    Thanks - great to get other POV.
     
  16. bcool

    bcool Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Mine does...but I have gap seals & they give me 5 kts over the POH speeds.
     
  17. AlphaMike

    AlphaMike Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I’ve noticed a few straight tale 182s with mid time engines and pretty decent panels going for right around your budget. They are typically lower priced than the wide body’s and are actually better in a some aspects. They are typically a few knots faster and have better power to weight ratio. I still prefer the wider hulls but wouldn’t pass on a straight tale at today’s prices.
     
  18. NealRomeoGolf

    NealRomeoGolf En-Route

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    Here is my Archer that I sold last year. Not quite 120 knots at 9.6 gph. It had pants but no speed mods. 1983 model with 1500 on the engine.

    20210401_050917.jpg
     
  19. WDD

    WDD Pattern Altitude

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    Nice looking Archer. What prompted you to sell?
     
  20. OneCharlieTango

    OneCharlieTango Pre-takeoff checklist

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    What you’re describing in the OP is EXACTLY what a Tiger is meant for. They’re also a lot more fun to fly than a Cherokee or anything else with fixed gear and a nose wheel. That 2600’ grass is a departure from its mission. When I had a Cheetah, I wouldn’t have tried that. But that was a long time ago and I had a lot less experience.

    And you’re right, they’re scarce. If you’re interested in one, join the American Yankee Association, ask them about the turf field, and post a WTB ad on their site.
     
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  21. WDD

    WDD Pattern Altitude

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    I would give up the 2600 grass in a heart beat if I could get a Tiger. Would be a nice to have. But tigers are almost nonexistent. One popped up yesterday and in 24 hours it’s tagged as sold. Which meant it was really sold within an hour of being posted. For now I have to rent one - I’m actually renting one tomorrow for the weekend.
     
  22. NealRomeoGolf

    NealRomeoGolf En-Route

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    I moved up to a Lance.
     
  23. OneCharlieTango

    OneCharlieTango Pre-takeoff checklist

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    American. Yankee. Association.
     
  24. bkspero

    bkspero Line Up and Wait

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    WDD, ten years ago when I was looking there were two types of Grummans on the public listing sites. Ones that had been there for months (for good reason) and others that were desirable and sold before I could get to them. What I did to get around that situation was to telephone each of a handful of Grumman-centric shops and ask if they were aware of a worthwhile Tiger about to come on the market, and, when they weren't initially, if it would be ok if I followed up with them every few weeks. Fletchair (Texas), Excel-Air Services (Indiana), AuCountry (California), Yankee Aviation (Ohio), Mid Atlantic Yankee Aviation (New Jersey). You can get the phone numbers from their websites. I also joined the Grumman Gang list server group where Grumman owners sometimes offer their planes for sale to Group Members prior to listing them publicly. It took about 5 months but Gary Vogt at AuCountry gave me a lead that turned into my Tiger. Good luck with whatever airplane you choose.
     
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  25. George Mohr

    George Mohr Line Up and Wait

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    I got 135 KTAS at 9000 yesterday in something like ISO+5 conditions, fairly light though with just me and full fuel. 1980 C182Q, 65% power and leaned to peak EGT.
     
  26. WDD

    WDD Pattern Altitude

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    Very nice performance from your 182.

    Got back from weekend trip in Tiger with wife and college age daughter. Tiger isn’t going to work after this weekend. Per customer feedback - too cramped, not steady enough (we hit some turbulence before I climbed out of it). She liked it a lot better when we rented the skylane - handled the bumps a lot better.

    Option 1) - pray for economic collapse of plane prices - not going to happen , or 2) endure economic hardship and buy a skylane in 3 years.
     
  27. George Mohr

    George Mohr Line Up and Wait

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    I've become a total 182 fanboy. It's completely versatile, simple, and safe. It's not fast, but nor is it slow (unlike my warrior really felt slow on some days). Yesterday's trip was from Key West to Northeast Phily. Launched at 7:40 and landed at 5:45 with two stops along the way. Hard to beat that from an airplane that can operate off grass, go into very short strips, and carry 4 adults with ease. It has a wide cabin, it's stable in turbulence. Fueling it on a ladder sucks :)

    Edit: Its worth mentioning that nothing comes for free in aviation. We burn 17-18 GPH in the climb, and 10.5-11 in cruise.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2021 at 12:23 PM
  28. WDD

    WDD Pattern Altitude

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    My plan is have every last dime spent or given away right before my last breath. I'm assuming this plan has no cause and effect to it. That is, if I buy a 182 it won't shorten my life span.... :)
     
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  29. Alien Mind

    Alien Mind Filing Flight Plan

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    Just had my Cherokee 180 properly rigged, now TAS at 8000' DA is 120- 123 (123 was lightly loaded). Plane also fairly newly painted. Seriously thinking of adding all the possible gap seals from Laminar flow to reach 130. Then I'll be close to the tiger I actually wanted..
     
  30. George Mohr

    George Mohr Line Up and Wait

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    I have no first hand knowledge, but have been told that all that gap seal stuff adds short field performance and climb performance, but not much for cruise speed.
     
  31. Art Schmidt

    Art Schmidt Filing Flight Plan

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    We got a Dakota a year ago for $109k. STEC 55x, 650 and G5’s. Love it. Our first and likely last plane. Fits our needs. 134 TAS with pants on. 129 without. 1200+ useful load, 72 gal tanks. Both my wife and I recently became PPL’s in our 50’s. Have to fight her to get left seat. Only thing I despise about it is the D3000 dual mag. Why why why?