First CAP meeting

WannFly

Final Approach
Joined
Nov 28, 2016
Messages
6,552
Location
KLZU
Display Name
Priyo
Home Airfield
KLZU
Attended the first CAP meeting today and I am thoroughly impressed by the calibre of people I met there and what they do... looking forward to join and help out in any way I can. Goal is to be a transport pilot down the road to begin with... but it's long way for me to get to 100 hrs PIC time and 50 xc...

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Prepare yourself for a couple of snarky comments and rants. Some folks can't help themselves.

Glad you enjoyed it.
 
You can get it! Those are low requirements. Once you get your certificate and start flying regularly, it'll come quick.

Good luck!
 
If you fell in with a good bunch, and your goals, tolerance, and patience align pretty well with CAP (local and national) you could have some rewarding experiences. No harm in giving it a go, and seeing how it works for you.

Litmus test - if you have your PPL, prepping for a check ride, and getting one scheduled, shoudn't be a long, drawn out endeavor. If it drags into several months, you might be in the wrong squadron. . .

I did it for 14 years, until my patience was most throughly exhausted - but that's me, with an increasingly lower tolreance for nonsense. YMMV.

Get the check ride (prep is fairly minor), and the other hoops jumped through, and start flying - if you hit a lot of roadblocks, step back and review. Point is, the experience from squadron to squadron, or wing to wing, can vary wildly. Good luck, hope it turns out to be fun for you. . .
 
If you fell in with a good bunch, and your goals, tolerance, and patience align pretty well with CAP (local and national) you could have some rewarding experiences. No harm in giving it a go, and seeing how it works for you.

Litmus test - if you have your PPL, prepping for a check ride, and getting one scheduled, shoudn't be a long, drawn out endeavor. If it drags into several months, you might be in the wrong squadron. . .

I did it for 14 years, until my patience was most throughly exhausted - but that's me, with an increasingly lower tolreance for nonsense. YMMV.

Get the check ride (prep is fairly minor), and the other hoops jumped through, and start flying - if you hit a lot of roadblocks, step back and review. Point is, the experience from squadron to squadron, or wing to wing, can vary wildly. Good luck, hope it turns out to be fun for you. . .
Don't have my PPL yet, so I will be a scanner for now, but I fundamentally agree with what they do. Time will tell how this squadron is, but first impression is very good. Already saw a guy I know who is completely no BS guy and I have lot of respect for him from my previous few encounters with him.

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There's a pretty loud anti-CAP contingent here, so like someone said, be prepared for the onslaught if they're in the mood to be negative about everything and everyone in a national organization. Haha.

I did CAP work for a long time, then left, then went back again. Nearly every time my "day job" and other skillsets dragged me over into the Communications side of the house. I didn't mind too much, making yourself unselfishly useful where you can best assist isn't an awful thing.

Only thing that really ran me off the second time was moving way too far away from meeting locations. That and since I was working as a Wing Communications Engineer/Assistant DC, and the DC had decided to step down for personal health reasons, it was a reasonable time to "exit, stage left". The new guard was taking over, and I'd either have to break in a new boss or back away from the Wing stuff and back into my squadron which I was already starting to neglect a bit due to scheduling and distance.

The organization has good and bad things about it, just like any large organization. I've seen people do good work in it and save lives, and I've seen people play pseudo-military and never accomplish anything useful in decades of membership. Seen people reflect well on the organization and seen some reflect poorly on it.

The joys of an all volunteer organization. Happens in all of them, CAP has no lock on that.

If you found a good group of folks who reflects well on the organization and is effective and gets the missions done... probably worthwhile to spend some time there if you like what they do. I've talked to folks who have run into groups that reflect poorly and they run away as fast as they can. Rightly so, too.

Keep in mind (and this gets mentioned on every CAP thread...) EVERY pilot who shows up wants to fly. Most don't want to do any of the other jobs that keep the organization flying. The most successful folks I saw in the organization always wore more than one "hat" and took care of their squadron's non-flying work as well as handled themselves well when flying.

There's a metric ton of paperwork. Most of it has been moved online over the decades which helps, but it's still there. A lot of it doesn't make any sense until you realize that USAF oversees the show. They have full time Colonels who have all week to poke and prod in paperwork and do evaluations of folks who have a couple of hours a week to spend on their volunteer jobs. The mesh of that is always difficult. Annual inventories, documentation of mandatory training, whatever, the assumption is that volunteers have enough personal time to keep up with full time USAF personnel auditing and evaluating them.

The other thing that doesn't lend itself well to volunteerism is the military grade/rank system. I did Captain the hard way... but certain jobs get temporary or permanent grade jumps. Nobody I knew in the core groups of people getting things done worried too much about anyone's grade.

It tends to be more important in the cadet program and PR purposes than really necessary in Emergency Services. The press likes seeing brass and ribbons on the person they're interviewing. The realists like to see a training record and operational record of twenty years behind that uniform.

And make no mistake, the organization has the nickname, "Come And Pay" for a reason. At least most of it is a tax write-off. Keep track of mileage if you progress past going to squadron meetings and do anything in leadership... even when I lived in town I could put a couple hundred miles on the car, easily, attending things around the State that were requirements of the Wing job. Keep a good mileage log and log of every penny spent.

I have folks asking if I'm coming back ever once I have the CFI stuff done. They're always in need of CFIs. My answer has been, and still is, I don't know yet. Thinking about it. I don't need hours, it's a half an hour one-way from home to the airport, you don't get paid, and I don't know if I need or want the hassles and headaches.

That said, there's good people in the organization, many of the missions are worthwhile (to me), and it's a decent way to give back time and energy to a community overall. I can think of worse ways to spend my time. But I can think of better ways, too.
 
Only thing that really ran me off the second time was moving way too far away from meeting locations.

That's pretty much the only reason I let my membership lapse. Had a lot of good times with CAP, but even when I'm in the States, it's still over an hour drive to get to the nearest squadron.
 
Yes, get started on that scanner work right away. It's a big barrier to aircrew, and getting over it opens a lot of doors. We've had a large number of new members, mostly pilots, in our squadron over the last year. In that time, I've trained no less than eight MS-Ts (four are standards now) and two APs. One of them is getting into everything. She's MS-T, MRO-T, and GT3-T all at the same time. And she's obviously going to pull all of them off. We have more scanners than we know what to do with! Nice problem to have. And we'll get them all busy somehow, even if it's with roll-your-own proficiency flights.

Keep in mind, it is almost completely independent of pilot qualifications. You can get all the way through MO without any pilot certificate, and I'd suggest this route. Outside of ES, you can do transport missions and orientation rides with no scanner qualification, but the transport missions get kinda boring -- lots of MX ferries to and from the same airport. Orientation rides don't get boring.

The pilot training helps quite a bit for MS prerequisites, and even more for MO. But it can be done without.

You will indeed do well to find a squadron job that fits well. Somewhat to my surprise, I've been getting drawn more and more into cadet programs. It dovetailed nicely with all the O-rides. And now I'm the DCC-designate.
 
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Good to hear that you had a good experience, perhaps you found a good "squadron". My experience was a little diffrent, they people were more interested in millitary cosplay than actually flying or teaching or anything, but every place is diffrent.

Good luck and blue skies!
 
CAP sucks ...

except for when it doesn't and when it doesn't suck it can be a lot of fun and very rewarding.

I say go for it. I am trying to get active again in a local squadron but it had been a challenge due to schedules, location, etc.
 
Don't have my PPL yet, so I will be a scanner for now, but I fundamentally agree with what they do. Time will tell how this squadron is, but first impression is very good. Already saw a guy I know who is completely no BS guy and I have lot of respect for him from my previous few encounters with him.

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One weird thing about CAP is that they don't value the time you spend flying as a volunteer pilot, compared to the zillion little "jobs" that are of marginal value; spend 12 hours on a weekend sorting the sqdn sock drawer or re-re-arranging the files, and you're a hero. . .spend 12 hours in mission planning and flying, and you'll hear about how you're not carrying your fair share of the load.

The non-flyers (and that's most of CAP) tend to think of flying as a reward you get for mucking about with administrivia - but if you work with radios, or you're a lawyer, they don't expect you to wax the cat before you're "rewarded" with some communications or legal work.

In fairness, you can, as a Mission Pilot, ignore much of that - CAP has a hard time getting and retaining MPs, so you can just say "That's all the time I have" and press on.

Watch and see how long it takes you to get the flights you need to qualify as a MS, and then MO; that's the litmus test, and if it drags on for months, it's a red flag that you (and/or your squadron) aren't within the "inner circle". You didn't mention if your squadron has an aircraft assigned - if not, you may find missions few and far between, after you get MS/MO. Again, a possible sign you're not in the GOBN.

But, as you say, you might be in a good unit, and that'll reveal itself over the next few months. Good luck!
 
Even with an assigned aircraft, by far the most efficient way to get a scanner rating is to go to a SAREX. That way, everyone's schedules line up and funding is assured. With a roll-yer-own, it doesn't count as a "mission," and the funding may or may not be there (we can usually send up a couple of sorties each year with funding -- but the conditions usually prohibit the really interesting tasks like air/ground coordination). Those are much more useful for getting extra practice, especially as observer or photographer, after qualification.
 
One weird thing about CAP is that they don't value the time you spend flying as a volunteer pilot, compared to the zillion little "jobs" that are of marginal value; spend 12 hours on a weekend sorting the sqdn sock drawer or re-re-arranging the files, and you're a hero. . .spend 12 hours in mission planning and flying, and you'll hear about how you're not carrying your fair share of the load.
Been that way every place I've flown for a living, too. ;)
 
The non-flyers (and that's most of CAP) tend to think of flying as a reward you get for mucking about with administrivia - but if you work with radios, or you're a lawyer, they don't expect you to wax the cat before you're "rewarded" with some communications or legal work.

The non-flyers are the most of CAP? No. CAP does a great job recruiting pilots. I've never seen any lawyers, or professional radio people, or professional managers who were NOT pilots joining CAP in droves.

Flying was seen as a reward because 90% of the people in non-flying jobs within CAP Senior Squadrons ARE pilots.

Cadet squadrons change that math, but they're often staffed by parents of the kids in the squadron. Or kids who grew up and came back to help specifically with the cadet program they remember and thought was worthwhile for them as kids.

And as far as "waxing the cat" goes... holy hell... I did twenty lbs of paperwork for every time I *touched* an actual radio or repeater system in Communications. The fun in that job was actually operating the gear at a SAREX or aboard an aircraft, or going out to fix something broken and get it working again... and of course, real missions. Running Comm for weekday missions while I was also "working from home" was five sheets of logs a day, besides ICS forms for the Mission Commander to upload into WMIRS as part of his required paperwork.

I got a call during the first day of one of those missions for a served agency from another old time ham radio buddy in the area.

"Hey Nate, is that you running aircraft Comm for CAP? Sounded like your voice."
"You know I can't answer that in an official capacity but you can probably hear the aircrew calling me on the radio in the background, hang on a sec... [take call]... I hear radios in your background too, you over at the [served agency's] Comm center today?"
"Yeah. I think your aircraft is on the wrong frequency to talk to us, can you let them know via your FM side?"
"Yep. But we had some programming SNAFUs last year and I wonder if that aircraft has the wrong stuff. What Tac channel are you using? I just took over Comm from the MC and he hasn't had time to brief me and he's 40 miles from here."
"Tac [xxx]"
"That was one of the ones that might have gotten misprogrammed. I guess the MC didn't read that memo when he dispatched that airplane. What else have you got there that'll work?"
"[List of channels...]"
"Is XXX programmed narrow-band after the State asked for that last year in the bandplan?"
"Says it is on my channel sheet here."
"Cool, I'll get them to come up there and let the MC know and re-do all the ICS paperwork and send you a copy."
"Thanks. See ya next weekend?"
"Probably, if these flights aren't still up."

MC wondered how the served agency radio guy knew to reach me, we've had each other's cell phone numbers in each other's phones for 20 years. Comm is Comm. We don't always work for CAP.

Guess who had to pay for uniforms and "membership" do paperwork that day, and who showed up in a polo and jeans and waved his security credentials at the guard who waved him in, and didn't have to pay any dues, file reports annually to USAF, and generally didn't have the hassles of a para-military structure around his volunteer work that day? The other guy. No other organization in the State makes Comm people PAY to work for them. Ever. They bend over backward to cover everything. Good Comm people ALWAYS leave CAP if they aren't pilots.

CAP is awful to radio folks comparatively.

I can't imagine they're any better to lawyers. The lawyers I knew in CAP were all pilots, too.

Flying has always been the carrot of the organization. If I want to do serious radio volunteerism, the Sheriff in my county always needs help as do twenty other organizations, and with a lot less unnecessary structure and silliness.

I was recently asked if I had any interest in helping out our county EOC. Granted it's a rural county, but I asked "Well, what hoops would I need to jump through?"

"Background check, you've already got that... badge, they'll make one for you, meet with the current guy who's "retiring" and have a couple of us say we know who you are and what you've done. Might want to buy a radio that'll play well on the county or State system, we have a guy who can get those at cost. Might be some older ones they could issue, but I know you'd rather program your own. You know most of the folks who work the neighboring county anyway, so you won't need any introductions there."

The guy who heads up the neighboring county? The same guy who called me from their Comm center that day.

Give me a break. CAP Comm *sucks* compared to any other Comm volunteer job. You do it because it's aviation Comm instead of asking if the road block is in place, and getting a list of places to send the dude with backhoes, and Gatorade. LOL. And maybe, just maybe, once in a while you'll be aircrew.

Aviation is always the carrot in CAP. I can stay plenty busy doing Comm in nicer environments with less horse-pucky and a real Comm budget at nearly EVERY other agency in the State. In most areas, getting hired and paid to do it, isn't more than a few months away if you are persistent enough and kiss the right asses, and you want a low-paying job with a decent retirement plan.

I attempted to explain this to CAP leadership and they all said they knew and agreed, but had no say in the matter. I've watched bright Comm people leave CAP for decades. Most bright enough not only to work with other groups, but even form new organizations and staff them and get grants. One runs a City Medical Eplorer program for kids interested in being Paramedics. Another started a completely new ground SAR group and ran it for two decades until interest waned. Another is the Comm-L for a different Statewide ground SAR group doing technical rescues. Another runs the technical side of a County STEM program by night and the county's Voip phone system and IP network by day.

I hate to break this to you, but CAP offered very little in terms of "job satisfaction" in the Comm department. It was, and is, the airplanes that keep CAP Comm folks showing up. I would think about that pretty hard the next time Comm goes well for you as an aircrew during a busy mission, or even if it goes poorly. CAP has nothing to offer a Comm person other than a huge pile of largely unnecessary work.

And yet, I still enjoyed it. Because, airplanes. I also enjoyed the crossover in teaching Comm to cadets as well as seniors. I also served on a National committee of Comm engineers developing ideas for moving CAP into this century and on to digital and away from wide and FM. It was doomed from the start, it had no budget.

But it was a fun learning experience and I keep in touch with a fellow committee member from AZ. We hit it off and we're the "You're going to have to do this cheap or it'll never get approved" contingent on the Committee. We technically "won" that argument, but cheap was still too expensive when the budget was zero. I'm sure someone will pull out our report at National again someday and argue for a budget with it and/or add it to a pile of similar reports done by folks who came after us, and maybe get digital radios and linking/trunking into CAP in another ten years.

Why? The money goes to airplanes. Always. Airplanes and cadets. The main missions. I have no argument with that, really.

USAF does need to get off of their hard-on for CAP to maintain an HF network, though. Volunteers at suburban houses aren't missile silos with acres of land to put up HF antennas, and CAP doesn't actually NEED a national HF network. I never had time to even start fighting that battle, but I did waste days talking to a sheriff to possibly go retrieve a CAP owned radio from a former member who turned it back in three years after he left the organization.
 
I'm a pilot, in CAP, with ZERO interest in being a Mission Pilot. Transport? Sure, O-Ride - definitely. But the overhead (translation - online paperwork, etc) is not worth the effort. My quals are MS, MO-Trainee, AP-trainee. MS is my favorite position in the flight crew. I get to tell the pilot where to go, and when the mission/sortie is over, I take a nap in the back seat while they head back to the airport. Out here we have both the 182s and the Gippsland G8 that can handle 2 photographers - one on each side.

My non-aviation positions are both at the Wing (state) level. I'm IT and External AE. In other words, I go work with everyone STEM in the area that isn't CAP. Hence no need to deal with the uniform cosplay (only uniform I have is the polo shirt and grey slacks or jeans depending on the weather). Right now I'm working with a video crew to develop the O-Ride ground school. Will also do a "on board" O-Ride which will be challenging because no one other than the pilot and cadets are allowed in the airplane during the flight. But that's an implementation issue. Easy peasy, just have to make sure the cadet faces aren't obvious.

Why? Three reasons - recruiting, marketing and support for outlying squadrons in the state that don't have the same resources we do in the Denver area.
 
I went to one CAP meeting. They opened the meeting with a prayer. I never went back.
 
The non-flyers are the most of CAP? No. CAP does a great job recruiting pilots. I've never seen any lawyers, or professional radio people, or professional managers who were NOT pilots joining CAP in droves.

Flying was seen as a reward because 90% of the people in non-flying jobs within CAP Senior Squadrons ARE pilots.

Cadet squadrons change that math, but they're often staffed by parents of the kids in the squadron. Or kids who grew up and came back to help specifically with the cadet program they remember and thought was worthwhile for them as kids.

And as far as "waxing the cat" goes... holy hell... I did twenty lbs of paperwork for every time I *touched* an actual radio or repeater system in Communications. The fun in that job was actually operating the gear at a SAREX or aboard an aircraft, or going out to fix something broken and get it working again... and of course, real missions. Running Comm for weekday missions while I was also "working from home" was five sheets of logs a day, besides ICS forms for the Mission Commander to upload into WMIRS as part of his required paperwork.

I got a call during the first day of one of those missions for a served agency from another old time ham radio buddy in the area.

"Hey Nate, is that you running aircraft Comm for CAP? Sounded like your voice."
"You know I can't answer that in an official capacity but you can probably hear the aircrew calling me on the radio in the background, hang on a sec... [take call]... I hear radios in your background too, you over at the [served agency's] Comm center today?"
"Yeah. I think your aircraft is on the wrong frequency to talk to us, can you let them know via your FM side?"
"Yep. But we had some programming SNAFUs last year and I wonder if that aircraft has the wrong stuff. What Tac channel are you using? I just took over Comm from the MC and he hasn't had time to brief me and he's 40 miles from here."
"Tac [xxx]"
"That was one of the ones that might have gotten misprogrammed. I guess the MC didn't read that memo when he dispatched that airplane. What else have you got there that'll work?"
"[List of channels...]"
"Is XXX programmed narrow-band after the State asked for that last year in the bandplan?"
"Says it is on my channel sheet here."
"Cool, I'll get them to come up there and let the MC know and re-do all the ICS paperwork and send you a copy."
"Thanks. See ya next weekend?"
"Probably, if these flights aren't still up."

MC wondered how the served agency radio guy knew to reach me, we've had each other's cell phone numbers in each other's phones for 20 years. Comm is Comm. We don't always work for CAP.

Guess who had to pay for uniforms and "membership" do paperwork that day, and who showed up in a polo and jeans and waved his security credentials at the guard who waved him in, and didn't have to pay any dues, file reports annually to USAF, and generally didn't have the hassles of a para-military structure around his volunteer work that day? The other guy. No other organization in the State makes Comm people PAY to work for them. Ever. They bend over backward to cover everything. Good Comm people ALWAYS leave CAP if they aren't pilots.

CAP is awful to radio folks comparatively.

I can't imagine they're any better to lawyers. The lawyers I knew in CAP were all pilots, too.

Flying has always been the carrot of the organization. If I want to do serious radio volunteerism, the Sheriff in my county always needs help as do twenty other organizations, and with a lot less unnecessary structure and silliness.

I was recently asked if I had any interest in helping out our county EOC. Granted it's a rural county, but I asked "Well, what hoops would I need to jump through?"

"Background check, you've already got that... badge, they'll make one for you, meet with the current guy who's "retiring" and have a couple of us say we know who you are and what you've done. Might want to buy a radio that'll play well on the county or State system, we have a guy who can get those at cost. Might be some older ones they could issue, but I know you'd rather program your own. You know most of the folks who work the neighboring county anyway, so you won't need any introductions there."

The guy who heads up the neighboring county? The same guy who called me from their Comm center that day.

Give me a break. CAP Comm *sucks* compared to any other Comm volunteer job. You do it because it's aviation Comm instead of asking if the road block is in place, and getting a list of places to send the dude with backhoes, and Gatorade. LOL. And maybe, just maybe, once in a while you'll be aircrew.

Aviation is always the carrot in CAP. I can stay plenty busy doing Comm in nicer environments with less horse-pucky and a real Comm budget at nearly EVERY other agency in the State. In most areas, getting hired and paid to do it, isn't more than a few months away if you are persistent enough and kiss the right asses, and you want a low-paying job with a decent retirement plan.

I attempted to explain this to CAP leadership and they all said they knew and agreed, but had no say in the matter. I've watched bright Comm people leave CAP for decades. Most bright enough not only to work with other groups, but even form new organizations and staff them and get grants. One runs a City Medical Eplorer program for kids interested in being Paramedics. Another started a completely new ground SAR group and ran it for two decades until interest waned. Another is the Comm-L for a different Statewide ground SAR group doing technical rescues. Another runs the technical side of a County STEM program by night and the county's Voip phone system and IP network by day.

I hate to break this to you, but CAP offered very little in terms of "job satisfaction" in the Comm department. It was, and is, the airplanes that keep CAP Comm folks showing up. I would think about that pretty hard the next time Comm goes well for you as an aircrew during a busy mission, or even if it goes poorly. CAP has nothing to offer a Comm person other than a huge pile of largely unnecessary work.

And yet, I still enjoyed it. Because, airplanes. I also enjoyed the crossover in teaching Comm to cadets as well as seniors. I also served on a National committee of Comm engineers developing ideas for moving CAP into this century and on to digital and away from wide and FM. It was doomed from the start, it had no budget.

But it was a fun learning experience and I keep in touch with a fellow committee member from AZ. We hit it off and we're the "You're going to have to do this cheap or it'll never get approved" contingent on the Committee. We technically "won" that argument, but cheap was still too expensive when the budget was zero. I'm sure someone will pull out our report at National again someday and argue for a budget with it and/or add it to a pile of similar reports done by folks who came after us, and maybe get digital radios and linking/trunking into CAP in another ten years.

Why? The money goes to airplanes. Always. Airplanes and cadets. The main missions. I have no argument with that, really.

USAF does need to get off of their hard-on for CAP to maintain an HF network, though. Volunteers at suburban houses aren't missile silos with acres of land to put up HF antennas, and CAP doesn't actually NEED a national HF network. I never had time to even start fighting that battle, but I did waste days talking to a sheriff to possibly go retrieve a CAP owned radio from a former member who turned it back in three years after he left the organization.
Not in my experience - not good at recruiting or retaining MP's, and most senior members are not/not pilots, and most assuredly not/not MP's. As far as I know, they've never reached the five MPs per aircraft goal, anywhere, but that could have changed, of course. Of the eight mission pilots in my sqdn, when I left in 2013, none remain with CAP. I'm sure they must have picked up some, of course. . .

Look, not looking to trash CAP, but maybe give the OP some clues and reasonable expectations. There is a threshold of BS, local and national, and a personal threshold of tolerance for it, by member. If the OP's threshold is above CAP's, then he might have a good time. Sounds like he's going all in. Hope it works for him.
 
I really enjoyed my time in the CAP.
I was CAP when CAP cadets actually did rescue missions. I had 276 sorties in 4 years. Worked my way up to Cadet Captain, and Cadet Commander, went regular Air Force, then went back in for a number of years until I moved too far away from the nearest Squadron.
Fifty years later, I'm still in touch with most of the kids who were in my squadron, and the old Squadron Commander.
I miss it.
 
I went to one CAP meeting. They opened the meeting with a prayer. I never went back.
My squadron actually has a chaplain -- which is quite rare in CAWG; there are only a few.

She has led exactly one prayer in the three years I've been involved. And it was to perform a wedding for two of the senior members, who asked her to officiate. CAP is not supposed to be a religious organization, so someone in your neck of the woods doesn't understand any of CAP's missions.

I'm not religious at all, and certainly not a Christian. Yet, I have nothing but respect for her, what she does, and how she does it. Her day job is as a VA chaplain. What she does for CAP is lead "character development" discussions with the cadets. Having seen her in action, she's extremely careful to keep her own opinions out of the discussions, and some of them stray against her own beliefs. She's real good at what she does.
 
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I went to one CAP meeting. They opened the meeting with a prayer. I never went back.

My squadron actually has a chaplain -- which is quite rare in CAWG; there are only a few.

She has led exactly one prayer in the three years I've been involved. And it was to perform a wedding for two of the senior members, who asked her to officiate. CAP is not supposed to be a religious organization, so someone in your neck of the woods doesn't understand any of CAP's missions.

I'm not religious at all, and certainly not a Christian. Yet, I have nothing but respect for her, what she does, and how she does it. Her day job is as a VA chaplain. What she does for CAP is lead "character development" discussions with the cadets. Having seen her in action, she's extremely careful to keep her own opinions out of the discussions, and some of them stray against her own beliefs. She's real good at what she does.


I've seen the prayer thing as well. The senior squadron with aircraft that is closest to me had a prayer before each meeting that I've attended which is about six. Though I am having trouble working the meetings into my schedule right now, the praying does turn me off and makes me less likely to make the extra effort to attend. I wonder how many other people get turned off by it.
 
I didn't see it (praying) at meetings when I was involved. Maybe a here-and-there thing?
 
I went to a meeting once. Or at least I think that's where I went. It may have been a senior center. I was about 50 years younger than everyone else (I'm 36). I'm pretty sure one guy died mid-meeting, but no one else seemed concerned, so I just scooted my chair away a bit... and never went back.
 
I went back and forth with the CAP guy locally for a while... he didn't want to email me details. I tried setting up a phone call with him, but he never replied. That's my experience with cap. I might try again but ... I might not.
 
I went to a meeting once. Or at least I think that's where I went. It may have been a senior center. I was about 50 years younger than everyone else (I'm 36). I'm pretty sure one guy died mid-meeting, but no one else seemed concerned, so I just scooted my chair away a bit... and never went back.
LOL, and you're going to wake up sooner than you realize and say "I'm there". If you're lucky.
 
I went to a meeting once. Or at least I think that's where I went. It may have been a senior center. I was about 50 years younger than everyone else (I'm 36). I'm pretty sure one guy died mid-meeting, but no one else seemed concerned, so I just scooted my chair away a bit... and never went back.

LOL. Senior squadrons attract military retirees like flies to honey. That and the amount of time required to get things done, lends better to retirees. Or people without kids.

The prayer thing... we had a Jewish Commander who'd ask the non-ordained but somehow CAP appointed Chaplain to say some words pre-meeting sometimes that sounded vaguely Christian but doctrinally were a total disaster.

It was more fun to try and figure out how he'd twist himself into a PC pretzel trying to remain "non-denominational" (but without being atheistic, which would have been even more entertaining) whenever he was there to do it. I usually tried to keep the smirk off my face while being polite enough to bow a head for respect to whomever's weird-assed religion he was making up this week. Haha. It never resembled mine.

The reality is, I never once heard any Chaplain give any sort of doctrinally sound prayer per their particular religion, or not make an utter mess of three or four religions simultaneously, trying to follow the organization's rules. Anyone who hears that pseudo-religion babble and thinks it represents a particular religion, probably doesn't know squat about any religion.

What Chaplains did well was be available to counsel families of dead pilots and passengers. Saw that twice, and frankly, was glad they were there. The better ones had a LOT of training or real world experience holding folk's hands while a Sheriff and Coroner told them the unspeakably bad news.

Ultimately they weren't there for the silly weird meeting benedictions, that's for sure.

And as someone pointed out, many were involved in character development of cadets, but not spending a lot of time in cadet or mixed squadrons over the years, I rarely saw that and have no opinion on it. Zero. Not bad or good, just none.

Most of the pre-meeting words were about as deep as the guy who says he's going to pray over a meal and says...

Good food
Good meat
Good God
Let's eat!

LOL!
 
I went back and forth with the CAP guy locally for a while... he didn't want to email me details. I tried setting up a phone call with him, but he never replied. That's my experience with cap. I might try again but ... I might not.

You're essentially calling someone at home who's already put in their time at a meeting and probably more asking, "Should I come to a meeting?" ;)

I wasn't tasked with recruitment and I always hoped the squadron recruitment folks did a better job than me or not returning calls, but the few calls I did get from folks I KNEW asking about it were handled the same...

"Meeting is X weeknight at XX:XX at [location]. It'll take a few meetings to figure out what's going on. It isn't a flight club. Come on over and I'll introduce you to some folks who can explain the training and duties and see if it's something for you. Nothing I can say on the phone will really cover it. Membership isn't required to attend as a guest. If you decide membership is for you, you'll need to write a couple of checks, one for national dues and one for Wing dues, and get a fingerprint card done to send off for a background check to be able to work with minors. If you get lost finding the place, I'll have my cell on vibrate and keep an eye out for you. I'll be there a half hour early working on staff stuff but I can talk after the meeting is over if I'm not overrun with people needing Comm stuff done. I usually am, and get to leave about an hour after the meeting lets out. 10PM. And I have a 45 minute drive home and work tomorrow. So call me or we'll see each other in a few days if you have questions."

In other words, for most squadrons, just show up.

If they have cadets, expect someone to be around you anytime you might be in any areas with academy alone. They're not allowed to not escort you or at least be another adult present in the room or area. Don't take it personally.

No point in calling anyone at all, other than to confirm the meeting isn't cancelled or moved for some reason (happens around the holidays for annual parties and around inspections when there's too much to do that night to bother with a full meeting, but that's about it). Just get them to confirm the meeting is on, and go.
 
You're essentially calling someone at home who's already put in their time at a meeting and probably more asking, "Should I come to a meeting?" ;)

I wasn't tasked with recruitment and I always hoped the squadron recruitment folks did a better job than me or not returning calls, but the few calls I did get from folks I KNEW asking about it were handled the same...

"Meeting is X weeknight at XX:XX at [location]. It'll take a few meetings to figure out what's going on. It isn't a flight club. Come on over and I'll introduce you to some folks who can explain the training and duties and see if it's something for you. Nothing I can say on the phone will really cover it. Membership isn't required to attend as a guest. If you decide membership is for you, you'll need to write a couple of checks, one for national dues and one for Wing dues, and get a fingerprint card done to send off for a background check to be able to work with minors. If you get lost finding the place, I'll have my cell on vibrate and keep an eye out for you. I'll be there a half hour early working on staff stuff but I can talk after the meeting is over if I'm not overrun with people needing Comm stuff done. I usually am, and get to leave about an hour after the meeting lets out. 10PM. And I have a 45 minute drive home and work tomorrow. So call me or we'll see each other in a few days if you have questions."

In other words, for most squadrons, just show up.

If they have cadets, expect someone to be around you anytime you might be in any areas with academy alone. They're not allowed to not escort you or at least be another adult present in the room or area. Don't take it personally.

No point in calling anyone at all, other than to confirm the meeting isn't cancelled or moved for some reason (happens around the holidays for annual parties and around inspections when there's too much to do that night to bother with a full meeting, but that's about it). Just get them to confirm the meeting is on, and go.

Problem is the meetings are on the 1st and 3rd Mondays of the month during the middle of my work shift. Which is why I was reaching out instead of showing up.
 
LOL. Senior squadrons attract military retirees like flies to honey. That and the amount of time required to get things done, lends better to retirees. Or people without kids.

The prayer thing... we had a Jewish Commander who'd ask the non-ordained but somehow CAP appointed Chaplain to say some words pre-meeting sometimes that sounded vaguely Christian but doctrinally were a total disaster.

It was more fun to try and figure out how he'd twist himself into a PC pretzel trying to remain "non-denominational" (but without being atheistic, which would have been even more entertaining) whenever he was there to do it. I usually tried to keep the smirk off my face while being polite enough to bow a head for respect to whomever's weird-assed religion he was making up this week. Haha. It never resembled mine.

The reality is, I never once heard any Chaplain give any sort of doctrinally sound prayer per their particular religion, or not make an utter mess of three or four religions simultaneously, trying to follow the organization's rules. Anyone who hears that pseudo-religion babble and thinks it represents a particular religion, probably doesn't know squat about any religion.

What Chaplains did well was be available to counsel families of dead pilots and passengers. Saw that twice, and frankly, was glad they were there. The better ones had a LOT of training or real world experience holding folk's hands while a Sheriff and Coroner told them the unspeakably bad news.

Ultimately they weren't there for the silly weird meeting benedictions, that's for sure.

And as someone pointed out, many were involved in character development of cadets, but not spending a lot of time in cadet or mixed squadrons over the years, I rarely saw that and have no opinion on it. Zero. Not bad or good, just none.

Most of the pre-meeting words were about as deep as the guy who says he's going to pray over a meal and says...

Good food
Good meat
Good God
Let's eat!

LOL!
My favorite prayer over dinner: " Hail Mary, Full of Grace. Notre Dame's in Second Place"

Taught to me by a Jesuit Seminary student many years ago.
 
Problem is the meetings are on the 1st and 3rd Mondays of the month during the middle of my work shift. Which is why I was reaching out instead of showing up.

Ah. Doubtful you'd ever really get plugged in then. Just being honest.

Kinda like calling up the choir director and saying you want to sing in the choir but you can't make rehearsals nor any dress rehearsals before the show.

Probably have to find a squadron that meets when you're not working.

See: Previous comment that it works better for retirees than people with jobs. Hahaha.

I think it'd be darn near impossible to join and not attend meetings and get through any of the training without a personal friend who's also a member running some interference and leading you through it, and even then you'll not meet the mandatory safety meeting requirements and be banned from activity until one is attended or you do an online one -- and you'd run out of online ones to do eventually.

Very difficult to be involved and not attend squadron meetings at least until you had a specialty rating completed. Just my opinion. I'm sure someone somewhere has done it.
 
I went to one CAP meeting. They opened the meeting with a prayer. I never went back.
There are a lot of differences between squadrons. My squadron opens their meetings with the Pledge of Allegiance. One member leaves out the words "under God." Nobody cares.

In twenty-five years of CAP membership, I've never been to a CAP activity in which there was any group prayer at any time, but I can certainly understand how things might be different in other parts of the country.
 
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Ah. Doubtful you'd ever really get plugged in then. Just being honest.

Kinda like calling up the choir director and saying you want to sing in the choir but you can't make rehearsals nor any dress rehearsals before the show.

Probably have to find a squadron that meets when you're not working.

See: Previous comment that it works better for retirees than people with jobs. Hahaha.

I think it'd be darn near impossible to join and not attend meetings and get through any of the training without a personal friend who's also a member running some interference and leading you through it, and even then you'll not meet the mandatory safety meeting requirements and be banned from activity until one is attended or you do an online one -- and you'd run out of online ones to do eventually.

Very difficult to be involved and not attend squadron meetings at least until you had a specialty rating completed. Just my opinion. I'm sure someone somewhere has done it.

You've already been more helpful than he was. =D
 
You've already been more helpful than he was. =D

He probably didn't want to disappoint. Folks have schedule changes and then they come and go. Hard to start at first without attending though.

I'll be honest, I "batched up" my return phone calls when I was doing Comm stuff. One night a week when I would return all of them otherwise I'd be interrupting dinner, a movie, something on every night of the week. I gave out my Google Voice number and screened all calls from anyone other than known numbers, and leadership got the direct cell number.
 
CAP is only as good as the people in involved the local squadron. That can be both good and bad.
 
There are a lot of differences between squadrons. My squadron opens their meetings with the Pledge of Allegiance. One member leaves out the words "under God." Nobody cares.

In twenty-five years of CAP membership, I've never been to a CAP activity in which there was any group prayer at any time, but I can certainly understand how things might be different in other parts of the country.

I think most units open with the pledge. This one does the pledge after the prayer. I have always been willing to say the pledge and I also omit 'under god' when I recite it. Did you know that phrase was not in the original version of the pledge but was added much later? In fact the pledge went through three iterations between 1892 and 1954 before god was added in the fourth version. But when someone mentions removing it from the pledge, people freak out and say to leave it alone. Yeah I agree, it should have been left alone in 1954.
 
Umm, you do have to go to meetings, so opening meetings with a prayer makes it compulsory.
Exactly. The only other option besides not going is to just show up late for every meeting. But some of us pride ourselves on being on time for meetings, events, etc. Still, I might choose that option as I doubt they care that much about anyone's tardiness. They just want participation.
 
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