First annual

Timbeck2 said:
Absolutely, the IA didn't do squat except show up to get the logs. I did 95% of the work with my A&P supervising. So yeah, I'd say the mechanic did an exceptional job.
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you do realize that the IA is an "inspector".....and his primary function does not include maintenance.....just inspection.

However, if he needs to perform maintenance his A&P ticket allows for that.
 
  • You mentioned "mechanics" and I've only mentioned two people that I was working with. I assumed you meant the A&P and the IA. I'm fully aware that the IA is only an inspector but every IA I've met (at that isn't too many) does a lot of the work.
And I have no idea why the dot is at the beginning of the sentence.
 
This is a great thread.... I will be starting my first annual in September, have met with the A&P / IA that will be overseeing my work, so I'm in the same boat as you.. it has helped to see where the pitfalls maybe... The IA did go through my logs already and is pleased with them, along with the pre-buy he liked what was pointed out and what was fixed. His statement is that he likes to keep airplanes flying and works with pilots that want to keep them flying also... I hope I'm good as I do like to work on my own stuff and have for years.. Current job is building composite aircraft so I should know a little about keeping an aluminum can in the air..
 
I was a jet engine mechanic in the Air Force for 10 years before I cross-trained. My safety wire is better than my mechanic's.
But he knows "stuff" I do not and I like learning from him.
 
Timbeck2 said:
I was a jet engine mechanic in the Air Force for 10 years before I cross-trained. My safety wire is better than my mechanic's.
But he knows "stuff" I do not and I like learning from him.
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sounds like you already have your "P".....?
 
So when you find that magic spot for the OAT probe, post it up... I want to add an OAT gage and probe as I can not see the temp gage in the windshield... but have no idea where to mount the probe.
 
My annual began last Friday. Mechanic has found damaged thread in the #3 cylinder. Part of the helicoil broke off. I didn't know what a helicoil was or how it could break until he told me about it. *sigh* He's going to try to fix it without having to send the plane over to the engine shop on the field.

Already the saga beings.
 
Well sir, I've already gone through this and I got to assist while my mechanic (lets call him Rick for two reasons: one - that's his name and two - I'm tired of saying "my mechanic." It sounds like I own a mechanic) changed out the helicoil. Oddly enough, mine was the #3 cylinder as well.

I didn't know that every bolt hole in the engine had them. Makes sense as the block is cast iron and the engine parts are taken off and replaced frequently. I will tell you to relax because it isn't a big deal and compared to all the other things I've had to do, isn't that expensive. A couple hours (if that) of labor and a $10 insert (new helicoil), that is if your mechanic has the tools to do it. The scariest part is "chasing" the threads after the old insert has been removed.

Glenn - I will.
 
block i assume you meant case check with rick about it being cast iron. also the cylinder were the plug is,is aluminum .
 
You are correct. That's what I meant. I was so excited that someone else had the same problem that I forgot the entire periodic table of elements.
 
Wimpy O-320 in a Cessna 177: (same hose setup as the O360 in the 177B/A)


A 230 horse O470 in a 182 has three hoses...

Not a fan of this particular installation. Too many hoses, lotta extra weight an complexity.
 
Brian that picture reminds me of the scene not too long ago on my hangar floor. Old rigor mortise hoses lying next to $570 worth of new hoses.
 
ircphoenix said:
Cherokee 140 with the O-320, yes?
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Yes and I misspoke. Other than a misplaced OAT sensor by my own hand, I have no problems now but an incredibly lazy IA with no respect or regard for his customer.

He's taken almost three months now to produce AD search documents and a signed off annual in my log book. I will take the same amount of time to pay him when he finally produces and see how much he complains.
 
I hear ya Walt, I hear ya but I'm speaking as someone who STILL doesn't have their log books and only a verbal approval for airworthiness.
 
Timbeck2 said:
I hear ya Walt, I hear ya but I'm speaking as someone who STILL doesn't have their log books and only a verbal approval for airworthiness.
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When you have AD log there really isn't any reason to give your logs to the IA until he is ready to sign them. It really is a great method to keep all the ADs and required inspections logged in one place.
 
Timbeck2 said:
I hear ya Walt, I hear ya but I'm speaking as someone who STILL doesn't have their log books and only a verbal approval for airworthiness.
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How do you know you are signed off?

He might be waiting for the smoking hole, so he can run up and throw the logs on the fire.

" I didn't do any annual on that aircraft"

OBTW,,,, do you have any paper saying he has your logs?

" I don't have your logs, go pound sand"
 
rolivi said:
I know your pain... My first Annual is being done along with a bunch of repairs (my fault) and upgrades (my fault).

I'm hoping that we can get reassuring comments from other owners that the first annual usually costs more, and then as you maintain your ship your way the rest of them are less SHOCKING.
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Timbeck2 said:
Exactly why I posted this Rob.
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1980 TR-182.

First annual $18,143.67 worth of sticker shock, but that included upgrades like inertial reel harnesses, LED lighting and controllers, Rosen visors, JPI-830, etc., plus some hose replacements, new nosewheel hub, and such.

The following year, $3,816.22. No upgrades. Overhauled wastegate installed with new gaskets, new nosewheel tire, replaced a leaking swivel fitting. I expect it to be even less next year.
 
Update:
I'm working nights this week and Rick just called and woke me up. Good news, Rick now has my logs with the sign off and I'll have them this afternoon. It's over folks. <sniff>
 
Timbeck2 said:
Update:
I'm working nights this week and Rick just called and woke me up. Good news, Rick now has my logs with the sign off and I'll have them this afternoon. It's over folks. <sniff>
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Excellent. Make sure every, single thing is signed off correctly.

Now, get a separate bill from Rick, and another one from the IA. Pay Rick immediately.

Personally, I would "lose" the IA's bill for a period equal to precisely twice as long as it took him to simply return your signed logbooks. That's not taking the low road -- that's justice.

IMHO, the guy is getting off easy. I would have been standing on his desk weeks ago. The guy is lucky you're not billing HIM.

Reason #1,274 I jumped to the experimental world after many years of putting up with this sort of crap.
 
I bought NAvion '34K in April last year. It has a Continental E225. I was expecting it's first annual to be around $2,000 and was not surprised. What he didn't charge me for was replacing 2 of the cylinders (bought '34K from him). In my case, it isn't the annual that will kill me, it's the avionics upgrade I am planning to do this year.
Worst part about it was I got 6 hours after the annual when high winds took a roof panel off a hangar and dropped it on my right wing tank. The broken tank went back to the manufacturer and the rest of the damage has been repaired. I've added 6.5 more hours over the last two weeks and am planning on doing the Air Direct Airways Poker Run Saturday 6/25. http://airdirectairways.com
 
My annual is delayed another week after the discovery of a cracked cylinder exhaust thing.... which is another 900 bucks.

We're up to $7,100 bucks total so far.
 
As I wrote in another thread, after the engine mounts (all four) were changed with zen-like attention to detail as to which part numbers go where and how the mounts are installed and the washers are stacked, I STILL have the issue of the flywheel rubbing the top cowl. Rick is calling tech support to see if we can remove two of the washers between the mount and the engine to alleviate the problem. There is no adjustment to the cowl without elongating the holes and I'm not going to do that. The only reason it was NOT rubbing the cowl when I bought the plane is because the bottom mounts where squeezed 1/4" less than new. If tech says we can't do that, I'm at a loss.
 
Timbeck2 said:
I hear ya Walt, I hear ya but I'm speaking as someone who STILL doesn't have their log books and only a verbal approval for airworthiness.
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Reason 421 why I never let anyone keep my logs.


Sorry you're going through this BS

New IA time?
 
An old rule of thumb is to budget 10% of the plane's purchase price for whipping the plane into shape on the 1st couple of annuals.
 
Definitely. I personally know 5 other people who will not ever use this IA again because of their annual experience.
 
Bill Jennings said:
An old rule of thumb is to budget 10% of the plane's purchase price for whipping the plane into shape on the 1st couple of annuals.
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Cheaper to just get a big league prebuy.

Whipping into shape is on the sellers dime, or just keep shopping.


First annual after my prebuy/annual was just under 2k, and that was with a 1k flatrate, one rudder cable that was nearing needing to be replaced (water rudder), and a few other things which might not have been unairworthy, but we're not up to spec for the planes mission. If I just went for airworthy, probably would have been 1200 bucks.
 
James331 said:
Cheaper to just get a big league prebuy.

Whipping into shape is on the sellers dime, or just keep shopping.
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Our 1st annuals were quite reasonable, but this is some old advice I've heard from the old timers.
 
I would give the same advice. My first annual would have been well over 10% of the purchase price, if insurance hadn't covered the mouse damage. And I had a fairly good prebuy, at least to the type group's specs (I disagree that it was adequate, but that's another thread...).
 
azure said:
I would give the same advice. My first annual would have been well over 10% of the purchase price, if insurance hadn't covered the mouse damage. And I had a fairly good prebuy, at least to the type group's specs (I disagree that it was adequate, but that's another thread...).
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My first annual was about 35% of the purchase price. Turns out having 3 cylinders needing replacement at 325 SMOH hurts the old pocket book. Had a prebuy that I sat and watched, engine borescoped... Etc. Did everything I was told to do to not get screwed. Still got boned. Ymmv
 
James331 said:
Cheaper to just get a big league prebuy.

Whipping into shape is on the sellers dime, or just keep shopping.


First annual after my prebuy/annual was just under 2k, and that was with a 1k flatrate, one rudder cable that was nearing needing to be replaced (water rudder), and a few other things which might not have been unairworthy, but we're not up to spec for the planes mission. If I just went for airworthy, probably would have been 1200 bucks.
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What do prebuys on a single engine piston run? About the same as an annual?
 
ircphoenix said:
My first annual was about 35% of the purchase price. Turns out having 3 cylinders needing replacement at 325 SMOH hurts the old pocket book. Had a prebuy that I sat and watched, engine borescoped... Etc. Did everything I was told to do to not get screwed. Still got boned. Ymmv
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How did they know those 3 were bad? compression checks were low?
 
ircphoenix said:
My first annual was about 35% of the purchase price. Turns out having 3 cylinders needing replacement at 325 SMOH hurts the old pocket book. Had a prebuy that I sat and watched, engine borescoped... Etc. Did everything I was told to do to not get screwed. Still got boned. Ymmv
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How was it that 3 cylinders need replacement?
 
My first years maintenance bills including annual was 15%, but some expected, some were upgrades (LED lights)... I think 10% is a good ball park.
 
I just found these jewels on my bird... What's another $550 out the window? (just for the cast cylinders, not assemblies).


 
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