Finishing PPL and questions on the next level

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Alexander1997

Filing Flight Plan
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Alex
This post might be a little long, but here goes: I made PLENTY of mistakes getting my PPL. But, alas I had a lot of grit and I made an 88% on the written, logged my hours/requirements, solo'd and I'm about to start check-ride prep with my CFI soon. I know I'm getting ahead of myself here, but I want to plan better for the next level. I know without a doubt I've fallen in love with aviation and I want to take my career this direction.. Not really hung up on airlines, UPS or any other specifics.. I just fell in love with flying throughout PPL and if I can just earn a livable salary and fly, then I'm happy.

What're the opinions here on ATP? I have an MBA and I'm considering leaving work (after a few months of proper saving first) and going to ATP, just to fastrack the process. The thing that scares me with ATP is I have heard they will drop you if you fail a stage check.. Any truth there? I failed a stage check at my little part 61 school, but it was more of a lecture and then a re-do, not dropped entirely from the course, so that concerns me.

My other idea was to just save up several months pay (just like with my above option), but to try and secure financing for training through somebody like AOPA and just continue to work full time and use the financing + savings/income, to fly as much as possible after 5 PM and weekends. Granted I know this option will take longer, but will come with the security of still having my job, until I reach CFI.

Currently, I have no student loan debt for the MBA, no car payment, credit card is paid off, I'm mid twenties and no kids or wife, so this makes me a little less concerned with risks, but I also want to be calculated. If you were in this situation and knew you wanted to fly for a career, would you role the dice with ATP and no job? Or take the safer and longer path of working and paying for lessons until you make it? Thanks in advance.. I know this is sort of arbitrary, but I don't have any pilots in my family, so I look here for advice.
 
If you want to pay over 3x the cost, go to ATP. They’re currently advertising only $87K for post-PPL.

For reference, I know someone who just did their IFR at a local flight school for about $12K all in.

If you can find a partnership or club, join and go fly cross countries to new destinations at day and night using flight following for the next 40 or so hours, holding yourself to commercial tolerances for headings, altitude deviations, etc. While doing that, knock out the IFR ground and written…it’s a ton of knowledge to absorb.
 
Had no idea ATP is 87k, post-PPL. Good suggestion. For 12k, I might just stack back the cash first and stay debt free.
 
The advantage of a school such as ATP is that they have a program that will move you through the ratings quickly. Plug into the program and you will progress quickly. They have a system that works. It is a known quantity; good and bad.

Training through an independent school or instructor may, or may not, move you through the ratings efficiently and economically. You will have to be a better consumer in choosing and monitoring the training your training and progress. Do that well, and the results can be as good or better.
 
Alexander1997 said:
Had no idea ATP is 87k, post-PPL. Good suggestion. For 12k, I might just stack back the cash first and stay debt free.
Click to expand...

Take a gander for yourself.

atpflightschool.com

Airline Career Pilot Program / ATP Flight School

ATP's Airline Career Pilot Program flight training takes you from zero experience to commercial multi-engine instrument-rated pilot with certified flight instructor certificates in just 5 months.
atpflightschool.com

They also offer the Airline Direct Track for post commercial work. It runs $185K

Airline Direct Track for Airline Career Pilot Program / ATP Flight School

Become an airline pilot in just 18 months. ATP's Airline Career Pilot Program with Airline Direct Track is the fastest way to start your career.
atpflightschool.com
 
Alexander1997 said:
... I know I'm getting ahead of myself here, but I want to plan better for the next level. I know without a doubt I've fallen in love with aviation and I want to take my career this direction.. Not really hung up on airlines, UPS or any other specifics.. I just fell in love with flying throughout PPL and if I can just earn a livable salary and fly, then I'm happy. ...
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It sounds like you love flying and options are wide open in what form that might take, if any. So my advice is to take it incrementally rather than commit to going all the way to ATP. The next ratings would be Instrument and Commercial. Along the way you can get endorsements for complex and multi-engine. And tailwheel, if you want to check out vintage airplanes and also improve your takeoffs & landings in any airplane. At that point you've learned a lot and you have opportunities to start making money by flying. Then you'll know better whether you want to pursue ATP. If you do, you haven't lost anything because you were going to get that training anyway.
 
Let’s use that MBA a moment (I have one too…)

You love aviation. Awesome. Thumbs up. What do you want to do in the flying field? What are the lost earnings getting there (the MBA wasn’t exactly inexpensive) Assuming you want to fly as an airline pilot, there is a time honored flow of earning your CFI, flying a ton while teaching , finding a gig flying cargo in a multi, and earning your ATP to get you into the airlines. That might take 2ish years (swag). Doable? Yes. If that’s your path, set a goal and work it.

With your MBA you might get work at a fight school too. It might help offset the costs.
 
Baby steps. Get teh instrument rating first. Part 91.

"Be certain of your next horse B4 you get off the one you are on"...Ghengis Khan.
 
Be ready for a "lag time" between racing to get instrument and commercial ratings and your ATP job. You're still going to need some logged experience time before the revenue step-up. You may as well diversify in your training in order to get to the ATP total time requirements, have fun and get some variety in the process.
 
What is a stage check at a part 61 school? Do you mean a checkride with a DPE? I believe only checkrides are on your record.

As for ATP, I would not go that route. First, it’s expensive. Second, it goes at their pace and not yours. I’ve heard of plenty of people who failed out of the program and have to spend money again elsewhere to get their ratings.

If you have the cash, buy a cheap airplane and use that to build hours. Next step is instrument rating then commercial. You can get a CFI thereafter and work as an instructor.
 
Look at both part 91 and 141 for the instrument. Part 141 has some clear advantages over Part 61 - no 50 XC requirement.
 
Welcome to PoA and best of luck on your upcoming checkride.

My suggestion would be take a little time after your PPL and work on some solo cross country time. This will not be wasted as:
1) It builds time.
2) It builds cross country time (needed in future certificates).
3) You will get more comfortable with the aircraft due to time in them.
4) You will be exposed to unexpected scenarios just by virtue of flying.
5) You will learn about weather as it does change in flight
6) Others

I would also suggest considering the other endorsements as they teach skills you wont likely learn in your pipeline to ATP.
1) Glider, learn to be comfortable with engine out landings, learn how to use thermals to climb (yes, non-gliders can use them too)
2) Tail wheel, learn to use the rudder like they were meant to be used rather than as a foot rest. Learn to be aware of the wind. This also opens up job opportunities in banner towing and glider towing
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It would be kind of like the difference between someone who:
1) comes out of college w/ an MBA but no actual work experience
2) comes out with an MBA but has experience as an employee and also a manager in the field they are applying to.

Life experience tells you that guy #2 will be more appealing than guy #1, despite both having the same piece of paper at the end.

You say you're in your 20s, so you have about 40yrs of (give or take a couple) of airline flying ahead of you as a career (longer in other avenues of employment). So, there is absolutely no real reason to feel you need to rush at this stage. Build up the experience as you'll never know when it will benefit you or your passengers.
 
I wouldn’t go to ATP. I did my MEI and CFII with them, didn’t get single engine with them because of weather and had to go back to work, but when I went back to my flight school where I did my instrument rating and commercial I had to do a lot of remedial work to get my check ride sign off because while I did get exposed to at ATP I did not internalize it because it was such a fast pace and there was no long term learning, despite spending months in books prior to going. It is efficient, they have a good flow to the program, but I just don’t think drinking from a fire hose is the best way to learn.
 
TCABM said:
They also offer the Airline Direct Track for post commercial work. It runs $185K

Airline Direct Track for Airline Career Pilot Program / ATP Flight School

Become an airline pilot in just 18 months. ATP's Airline Career Pilot Program with Airline Direct Track is the fastest way to start your career.
atpflightschool.com
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I'm pretty tolerant of ponying up money to pay for education, but paying $185k for that track? No way. That is crazy talk.
I had no idea they offered such a product.

I really can't imagine what it would be like having nearly $200k hanging over your head to earn a qualification for a flying job. For that kind of money go get a 4 year degree which is at least transferable into other roles, should it become necessary to leave flying.
 
mandm said:
What is a stage check at a part 61 school?
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Our Part 61 training facility requires four evaluations along the way. These evaluations are similar to stage checks, I suppose. The first one is an evaluation of maneuvers, the second is prior to first solo, the third is a cross-country evaluation, and the final one is the pre-checkride eval. We do not do evaluation flights for our own students; they are performed by the most experienced instructors. (I have the most hours of any of the CFIs, however, I am part time, and the boss thinks I am too easy.)
 
mandm said:
What is a stage check at a part 61 school?
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It’s simply a flight with the chief pilot or some variation to cross check the CFI before sending them to solo, check ride etc.
 
RyanB said:
It’s simply a flight with the chief pilot or some variation to cross check the CFI before sending them to solo, check ride etc.
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Is it part of your official record?
 
Passed your medical? There are many threads on this topic which describe what and how (and why) to go about it
 
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