Finding Downwind Struggle/Sweat

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pilotshashi

Ejection Handle Pulled
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Jan 4, 2024
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154
Location
Miami Florida
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pilotshashi
Home Airfield
KTMB- TaMiami Airport FL
Am I the only one struggling to find the correct DOWNWIND at an unknown airport and getting Slammed by ATC?
 
At a towered airport I was taught to make a call 7-10 miles out and to follow ATC instructions. At my home field that was almost always a left downwind. Occasionally if it was not busy, I'd get a straight in approach. Rarely given a right downwind. At a non-towered airport, a left downwind was std unless otherwise noted on the chart or supplement and that was usually for noise abatement. Is the airport referred to as 'unknown' not on the chart or supplement?
 
More details needed. "Standard" is left traffic or Left Downwind. IF ATC wants something else they need to tell you.
 
Brief your destination airport ahead of time, including entry patterns.

Also most gps apps will now display runway entry patterns (right or left downwind) for each runway.

For more complex airports I will print out a kneepad size airport chart and physically mark on the paper the entry patterns. I also right in large lettering the airport frequencies an pattern altitude. Searching head down for the information in a busy airspace is not ideal. That's why i write it in large text so I can quickly get the info I need. This also helps me brief the airport while at home so I feel prepared about the airport before I ever leave the ground.
 
Welcome to POA!

As to downwinds, what seems to be the problem? The idea is simply to be parallel to the runway either on the left or right side of it, heading towards the end you're going to land on.

Now, depending on where you're at if it is an airport that has a lot of flight training, then yeah, ATC might be a bit more vigilant than normal. This is to be expected as student pilots have been known to do some weird things out of the blue. So if they are surrounded by student pilots, they've probably been exposed to a lot of weirdness. I wouldn't take it personally.

Now, with that said, ARE you having trouble with getting on the downwind leg? If so, what seems to be the problem? There are plenty of CFIs around who might can offer an opinion (and plenty of pilots who will opine as well)

Again, welcome!
 
Do your homework before you arrive at the airport ie, learn the traffic pattern, frequencies, pattern altitude and direction of turns. Listen to the ATIS, know where you are in relation to the runway in use and follow ATC instructions after checking in. I’d like to know how you were “slammed” by ATC.
 
pilotshashi said:
Am I the only one struggling to find the correct DOWNWIND at an unknown airport and getting Slammed by ATC?
Click to expand...

Not sure what you mean by "correct downwind". There is only one downwind (ok two, if you count left and right downwind).
If ATC asks you to join a left downwind, and you join a right downwind, that would be a problem.
If ATC asks you to join a left downwind, and you do a straight-in final, that would also be a problem.
It is difficult to decipher what you mean.
 
pilotshashi said:
Am I the only one struggling to find the correct DOWNWIND at an unknown airport and getting Slammed by ATC?
Click to expand...
Yes...:)

I'm not sure what you are saying exactly. But if coming in to an unknown airport it is sometimes difficult to orient myself to the runway. Can't see it, which way do I land? Where do I put myself for the 45 or downwind? etc.

The wet compass is a bit useless to me, so I use the heading indicator. Study that, now. Then in the air if you are landing 27 or something, first imagine the plane in middle of that device. Then imagine pointing the nose at 27. Going from that point of view it is easier to start figuring out where your nose will be pointing on landing, downwind, 45 etc.
 
rk911 said:
At a towered airport I was taught to make a call 7-10 miles out and to follow ATC instructions. At my home field that was almost always a left downwind. Occasionally if it was not busy, I'd get a straight in approach. Rarely given a right downwind. At a non-towered airport, a left downwind was std unless otherwise noted on the chart or supplement and that was usually for noise abatement. Is the airport referred to as 'unknown' not on the chart or supplement?
Click to expand...
Well my question was for General airports especially unknown airports, trust me I've been sweating so long always scared what to do once clr to downwind trfc Yieeewww
 
BillTIZ said:
More details needed. "Standard" is left traffic or Left Downwind. IF ATC wants something else they need to tell you.
Click to expand...
One time at Naples I was unable to rectify my entry Tower was slamming me on radio and asking me do you have instructor on board but I did make the pattern correct "Jesus"
 
dmspilot said:
I don't understand the question.
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I'm sorry if I'm unable to clarify myself I'm just curious have you ever encounter joining downwind issues at unknown Airport?
Hope I am clear and concise this time
 
Lndwarrior said:
Brief your destination airport ahead of time, including entry patterns.

Also most gps apps will now display runway entry patterns (right or left downwind) for each runway.

For more complex airports I will print out a kneepad size airport chart and physically mark on the paper the entry patterns. I also right in large lettering the airport frequencies an pattern altitude. Searching head down for the information in a busy airspace is not ideal. That's why i write it in large text so I can quickly get the info I need. This also helps me brief the airport while at home so I feel prepared about the airport before I ever leave the ground.
Click to expand...
I completely understand your point of view but sometimes even though you are planning ahead of time sheets hit the fan and then last moment sweating in pants occurs. Even I'm joining correct DW, twr will get confused and slam me sheesshhhh
 
guest user said:
Welcome to POA!

As to downwinds, what seems to be the problem? The idea is simply to be parallel to the runway either on the left or right side of it, heading towards the end you're going to land on.

Now, depending on where you're at if it is an airport that has a lot of flight training, then yeah, ATC might be a bit more vigilant than normal. This is to be expected as student pilots have been known to do some weird things out of the blue. So if they are surrounded by student pilots, they've probably been exposed to a lot of weirdness. I wouldn't take it personally.

Now, with that said, ARE you having trouble with getting on the downwind leg? If so, what seems to be the problem? There are plenty of CFIs around who might can offer an opinion (and plenty of pilots who will opine as well)

Again, welcome!
Click to expand...
I do conquer with you it's just my opinion that I asked on this platform at this moment I do not need any instructor but in future for sure if I mess up again LoL
 
sarangan said:
Not sure what you mean by "correct downwind". There is only one downwind (ok two, if you count left and right downwind).
If ATC asks you to join a left downwind, and you join a right downwind, that would be a problem.
If ATC asks you to join a left downwind, and you do a straight-in final, that would also be a problem.
It is difficult to decipher what you mean.
Click to expand...
Appreciate your comment
 
Flyxaos said:
Yes...:)

I'm not sure what you are saying exactly. But if coming in to an unknown airport it is sometimes difficult to orient myself to the runway. Can't see it, which way do I land? Where do I put myself for the 45 or downwind? etc.

The wet compass is a bit useless to me, so I use the heading indicator. Study that, now. Then in the air if you are landing 27 or something, first imagine the plane in middle of that device. Then imagine pointing the nose at 27. Going from that point of view it is easier to start figuring out where your nose will be pointing on landing, downwind, 45 etc.
Click to expand...
Copy, will try this technique in future.
 
Lndwarrior said:
Brief your destination airport ahead of time, including entry patterns.

Also most gps apps will now display runway entry patterns (right or left downwind) for each runway.

For more complex airports I will print out a kneepad size airport chart and physically mark on the paper the entry patterns. I also right in large lettering the airport frequencies an pattern altitude. Searching head down for the information in a busy airspace is not ideal. That's why i write it in large text so I can quickly get the info I need. This also helps me brief the airport while at home so I feel prepared about the airport before I ever leave the ground.
Click to expand...
I screwed up royally at KALS (Alamosa, CO) many years ago. No tower but did have 2 flights a day for United Express. After 2 attempts, the United pilot called and gently (with laughter behind him) suggested I turn around and go the other way in the pattern.

I either print the kneepad or have it ready to go in Foreflight. Either way, I note the freqs AND draw an arrow that shows me the direction of downwind in big red marker.
 
murphey said:
I screwed up royally at KALS (Alamosa, CO) many years ago. No tower but did have 2 flights a day for United Express. After 2 attempts, the United pilot called and gently (with laughter behind him) suggested I turn around and go the other way in the pattern.

I either print the kneepad or have it ready to go in Foreflight. Either way, I note the freqs AND draw an arrow that shows me the direction of downwind in big red marker.
Click to expand...
Completely agree well you made a safe landing cheers!
 
eman1200 said:
foreflight users do.
Click to expand...
Because it's now a feature you can add to the course/map in FF I suppose.

If you are talking to ATC, presumably Tower if about to enter the pattern, in my experience they will issue specific instructions. Such as "enter midfield left downwind for runway 32" or "report 3 mile left base for runway 16" or "make straight in runway 18, report 3 mile final."
 
@pilotshashi , in all your responses above you did not further clarify your question at all. We want to help, but you're not giving us anything to work with.

So give us an example of your recent problems. What airport? What direction were you approaching from? What were ATC's instructions? What about them was confusing, or you didn't understand? What are you having trouble figuring out?
 
Did you just mix up right and left downwind?
Common.
So common that once ATC said to me as I approached the airport straight on, and 90° to the runway, "Join left mid-downwind rwy 15".
I asked, "Just to be clear, you want me to overfly the airport to join on the other side?"
He said, "Sorry, join right mid-downwind."
Me "Yes sir, right mid-downwind 15"
 
I think you may be overthinking the process. From your post I am assuming we are talking about a towered airport. In that case, I contact the tower at 10 miles out and give them a my call sign, what I am, position report, which ATIS I have, and my intentions. In return, they will tell me what entry and when to report. With moving maps you know where the airport is and thus the direction you need to take to enter the pattern where they say. Without moving maps, you have done your homework and know what the airport looks like and with dead reckoning should know approximately where the airport is. Usually when I am within 5 miles I can visually identify the airport and can then adjust my heading to enter the pattern based on the towers instructions. Prior to this I use landmarks I have previous identified to know the approximate location of the airport. If you do a proper preflight, and familiarize your self with the airport, and it's surroundings, and check the weather preflight, even without the modern conveniences of GPS, it should be pretty simple. If you are uncomfortable with it, would suggest practicing in real-life with another pilot or instructor, or with a flight simulator. At a nontowered airport the process is the same except you need to figure out how to enter the pattern yourself. I typically like to enter on the 45 to the downwind but occasionally sill over fly the field slightly above pattern altitude at midfield and enter downwind from there. Practice will help a lot. Also do not let a rude controller fluster you. They are there to help you, and use them as a resource. If they are rude, do not take it personally, just try to be succinct and to the point. If you are lost confess and even the rude ones will help.
 
douglas393 said:
I think you may be overthinking the process. From your post I am assuming we are talking about a towered airport. In that case, I contact the tower at 10 miles out and give them a my call sign, what I am, position report, which ATIS I have, and my intentions. In return, they will tell me what entry and when to report. With moving maps you know where the airport is and thus the direction you need to take to enter the pattern where they say. Without moving maps, you have done your homework and know what the airport looks like and with dead reckoning should know approximately where the airport is. Usually when I am within 5 miles I can visually identify the airport and can then adjust my heading to enter the pattern based on the towers instructions. Prior to this I use landmarks I have previous identified to know the approximate location of the airport. If you do a proper preflight, and familiarize your self with the airport, and it's surroundings, and check the weather preflight, even without the modern conveniences of GPS, it should be pretty simple. If you are uncomfortable with it, would suggest practicing in real-life with another pilot or instructor, or with a flight simulator. At a nontowered airport the process is the same except you need to figure out how to enter the pattern yourself. I typically like to enter on the 45 to the downwind but occasionally sill over fly the field slightly above pattern altitude at midfield and enter downwind from there. Practice will help a lot. Also do not let a rude controller fluster you. They are there to help you, and use them as a resource. If they are rude, do not take it personally, just try to be succinct and to the point. If you are lost confess and even the rude ones will help.
Click to expand...
I'll take that word "OVERTHINKING" I appreciate your clarification, sir. I am glad u put ur time into explaining in detail
 
This thread will get interesting I bet.

On a serious note. Which part of getting a mental picture is a problem?

You should pre plan your arrival before the flight and plan the different possible patterns. FYI no 45 entry to downwind up here in Canada. You over fly and join from upwind.

Use your CDI and heading indicator if you are confused. Set the CDI for runway heading and read off the diagonals for base. Or set the CDI to your heading and read the diagonal for runway heading and use those to build your mental picture.
 
If you're at a towered airport, there is no 45 to enter downwind crap. That's for untowered fields. If they tell you to enter the downwind, they expect you to turn into the downwind in the most direct way possible.
 
Am I missing something about online forum customs and the use of the "like" button?

I posted some questions for the OP to answer that would help us help him.

The OP "liked" my post.

The OP has posted since then.

The OP still has not provided any details, although he "liked" my post asking for them.

I'm beginning to think the OP doesn't really want any help.
 
RussR said:
Am I missing something about online forum customs and the use of the "like" button?

I posted some questions for the OP to answer that would help us help him.

The OP "liked" my post.

The OP has posted since then.

The OP still has not provided any details, although he "liked" my post asking for them.

I'm beginning to think the OP doesn't really want any help.
Click to expand...

apparently, the OP has liked every reply...

edit: well, not all, but darn near every one.
 
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