Filing Alternate in both VFR and IFR XC

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John777

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Is it really an illegal to file an alternate even when the weather at destination is said to be 'adverse' or below minimum?
 
No. Only the regs that you want to follow are the ones that determine legality. If you don't like the reg, just ignore it and its legal. Flying at the wrong altitude, ignoring cloud and visibility requirements, etc... No need for 'em.
 
John777 said:
Is it really an illegal to file an alternate even when the weather at destination is said to be 'adverse' or below minimum?
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I am aware of no enforcement action against a pilot who filed an alternate after determining the weather at the destination was forecast to be less than VFR at the time of arrival. Would you like to re-phrase your question?
 
Brad Z said:
I am aware of no enforcement action against a pilot who filed an alternate after determining the weather at the destination was forecast to be less than VFR at the time of arrival. Would you like to re-phrase your question?
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It was 1am at the time of the post. Pretty sure he forgot a negative qualifier in there. Either that or he's not English proficient and should have his cert revoked.
 
Sorry guys, I mean 'well above minimum'
 
Only illegal for flights that cross from the Northern to Southern hemisphere -- has something to do with the coriolis effect or something or other, I don't remember exactly
 
Brad Z said:
I am aware of no enforcement action against a pilot who filed an alternate after determining the weather at the destination was forecast to be less than VFR at the time of arrival. Would you like to re-phrase your question?
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Good morning sir,

I meant to say that the one is filing an alternate regardless of the weather condition at the destination; be it good or bad.
From what I have read from FAR, it states that 'no person may file alternate ~' which sounds like we must not include alternate if the weather condition at destination is above the minimum prescribed in FAR.

John.
 
tsts4 said:
Only illegal for flights that cross from the Northern to Southern hemisphere -- has something to do with the coriolis effect or something or other, I don't remember exactly
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That is not that I heard of!
Well, that sounds interesting!
 
John Collins said:
It is not politically correct to call them "an illegal", you should use the term undocumented alternate. :)
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Thank you sir for your help.
So does that mean FAA will not kick in and have it considered to have failed with regulation ?
 
Sec. 91.169

IFR flight plan: Information required.

(a) Information required. Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, each person filing an IFR flight plan must include in it the following information:
(1) Information required under Sec. 91.153 (a) of this part;
(2) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, an alternate airport.
(b) Paragraph (a)(2) of this section does not apply if :
(1) Part 97 of this chapter prescribes a standard instrument approach procedure to, or a special instrument approach procedure has been issued by the Administrator to the operator for, the first airport of intended landing; and
(2) Appropriate weather reports or weather forecasts, or a combination of them, indicate the following:
(i) For aircraft other than helicopters. For at least 1 hour before and for 1 hour after the estimated time of arrival, the ceiling will be at least 2,000 feet above the airport elevation and the visibility will be at least 3 statute miles.
(ii) For helicopters. At the estimated time of arrival and for 1 hour after the estimated time of arrival, the ceiling will be at least 1,000 feet above the airport elevation, or at least 400 feet above the lowest applicable approach minima, whichever is higher, and the visibility will be at least 2 statute miles.
(c) IFR alternate airport weather minima. Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no person may include an alternate airport in an IFR flight plan unless appropriate weather reports or weather forecasts, or a combination of them, indicate that, at the estimated time of arrival at the alternate airport, the ceiling and visibility at that airport will be at or above the following weather minima:
(1) If an instrument approach procedure has been published in part 97 of this chapter, or a special instrument approach procedure has been issued by the Administrator to the operator, for that airport, the following minima:
(i) For aircraft other than helicopters: The alternate airport minima specified in that procedure, or if none are specified the following standard approach minima:
(A) For a precision approach procedure. Ceiling 600 feet and visibility 2 statute miles.
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So what does this mean?

For an IFR flightplan a pilot must file an alternate unless the exceptions in b) are applicable;
and,
one may not file an alternate for an airport that does not meet the weather forecast requirements.

So technically, if an alternate is not required as a result of the exception in b) you still can't file an alternate that does not meet the weather forecast requirements, even though one is not required.

It is highly unlikely this will be enforced if you land at your destination, alternate, or other airport without incident. Even if you give the FAA a reason to investigate, they are bound to find more appropriate regulations to hang you on other than this potential violation.
 
John777 said:
Thank you sir for your help.
So does that mean FAA will not kick in and have it considered to have failed with regulation ?
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Ummm... I think John was poking fun at you. ;)

But I do think you are misreading the regulation. Nowhere does it say that "no person may file an alternate even if the weather at the destination is below minimums", in fact it is required if the forecast weather from one hour before to one hour after your ETA is less than 2000 and 3 (2000 ft ceiling, 3 statute miles visibility), and even if the filed destination has CAVU weather forecast but no IAP. The only place it says you may not file an alternate is if the weather at the alternate is forecast to be below "alternate minimums" (standard alternate minimums are 600/2 for a precision approach, 800/2 for non-precision, but many airports have non-standard alternate minimums) at the time you would be arriving there. Do you see the difference?

If you filed an alternate that didn't meet the weather requirements, or even if you failed to file one when it was required, I couldn't see anyone coming after you unless there was an incident, e.g. a declared emergency, or fuel exhaustion. As far as I know, no one (certainly not ATC) ever looks at your filed alternate under normal circumstances.
 
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