Field Overhaul on Lycoming 235-C2C

Discussion in 'Maintenance Bay' started by Strutwipe, Dec 15, 2020.

  1. Strutwipe

    Strutwipe Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    May 8, 2019
    Messages:
    152
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Strutwipe
    Hi All,

    I'm looking at a Grumman Yankee AA1 with a Lycoming 0-235-C2C with 2660 hours since new (69). My intent is to earn my PPL (No IFR instruments) and gain some flight time before moving on. The aircraft is located in my home area of Tucson, AZ. Of course this is desirable because I can actual take a look at it and fly before buying but the bottom end of the 235 is a concern. This is one of those double edge swords. Low time meaning no flight school but stagnant.

    I spoke with Mark at Aircraft Engine Specialist in PHX AZ about doing a field overhaul on the engine. He hinted that it may behoove me to consider a STC for a 320 due to obsolescence and lack of support and parts. I went on FAA RGL and found STC SA4387NM to hang a 320 on the airframe but I wanted to reach out to the forum to see if anyone had a low time 235 or a good source of parts.

    Does anyone else have any further insight or experience with this aircraft or engine?
     
  2. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    34,736
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom-D
    Other than the 0-320 is heavier than the 0-235 on a already weak nose strut.
     
    Strutwipe likes this.
  3. Strutwipe

    Strutwipe Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    May 8, 2019
    Messages:
    152
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Strutwipe
    Interesting point
     
  4. JoeSelch

    JoeSelch Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2006
    Messages:
    1,926
    Location:
    Detroit-ish
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    JoeSelch
    I had an AA1B with an O-320. It was a hoot.
    And, watching another local Yankee (AA1A) with an O-235 climb out of our airport at 700' field elevation on an 85* day ... I was extra glad for the O-320.
     
    Strutwipe likes this.
  5. Strutwipe

    Strutwipe Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    May 8, 2019
    Messages:
    152
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Strutwipe
    Another good point. Tucson is at 2420' and summer is over 100* by 11am.

    Maybe Tim has an opinion?
     
  6. chemgeek

    chemgeek Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2009
    Messages:
    2,349
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    chemgeek
    The O-320 STC for the AA-1 series is popular. It will cruise and climb smartly with that engine, but it makes an already short-legged airplane even more short-legged. The AA-1X series only holds 22 gallons of usable fuel, so with the stock O-235-C2C at 6 gph cruise you better be over an airport after 3 hours. The O-320 is going to be more like 8 gph unless you throttle it way back in cruise.

    I would think a quality field overhaul of an O-235-C2C would be a good deal. This is one of Lycoming's simplest and trouble free engines. It has solid (not hydraulic) tappets, which is a bit unusual. I flew an AA-1A behind the O-235 engine for 4 years and 400 hours with nary an issue. Fully loaded, it's a puny climber, but flying solo performance is pretty decent. I could plan XC trips with block speed of 125 mph (108 kt) without going full throttle, at 6 gph. The AA-1 is a bit faster. It's an amazingly fun plane to fly. I miss mine a lot, but the AA-1X just doesn't have enough payload or range for traveling with two. It's a great time- and exprerience-builder for a new pilot though. I recommend it highly!
     
    Strutwipe likes this.
  7. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    34,736
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom-D
    Strutwipe likes this.
  8. Clip4

    Clip4 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2013
    Messages:
    6,095
    Location:
    A Rubber Room
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Cli4ord
    If I were buying plane you list, no way would I plan to overhaul that engine. The risk of crank or case damage is too high.
     
  9. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    34,736
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom-D
    explain ? please ?
     
  10. Strutwipe

    Strutwipe Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    May 8, 2019
    Messages:
    152
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Strutwipe
  11. Clip4

    Clip4 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2013
    Messages:
    6,095
    Location:
    A Rubber Room
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Cli4ord
    pretty simple. The engine hasn’t been opened in 51 years and is well beyond TBO. I would not make an effort due to the risk a bad crankshaft or case problems.
     
  12. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    34,736
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom-D
    like any other old engine,
     
  13. Scott MacMoyle

    Scott MacMoyle Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2019
    Messages:
    90
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Scott M
    I had an AA1A for a few years. I liked it. 120MPH @ 6 gallons per hour on 87 octane auto gas. Thats 20 MPG. As said, the climb out on a hot day is a bit shallow and my legs were a bit long for it but it was good fun. I now have a AA5B Tiger and I am still flying by myself mostly except now Im burning 10 gallons per hour. Makes me wonder if I should have just kept the AA1A.
     
    Strutwipe likes this.
  14. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2012
    Messages:
    9,440
    Location:
    Lincoln NE
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Brian
    This is kinda interesting

    https://www.lycoming.com/sites/default/files/Lycoming Engines Exchange Engine Core Policy.pdf



    Exchange engine cores that last left the Lycoming Engines factory 36 or more years ago in new, rebuilt, or overhauled condition can only be used towards the purchase of a Rebuilt or New exchange engine.
    2. Exchange engine cores originally manufactured in a narrow deck or “Standard” cylinder flange model configuration that are now only manufactured in a “Wide” cylinder flange crankcase model configuration will only be accepted as an exchange engine core towards the purchase of a New or Rebuilt exchange engine.
    3. All engine models referenced in the latest edition of Lycoming Service Instruction 1406 that have not been converted to accommodate the large diameter lifter will only b
     
    Strutwipe likes this.
  15. bluerooster

    bluerooster Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2011
    Messages:
    1,830
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    shorty
    I had an AA1 with the stc in the paperwork, but not installed. It would be ok if you had a Cheetah on hand for a parts donor. You must change out the horizontal stabilizer, add dorsal fin, change out Firewall forward, and nose gear strut, re-locate battery, and (optional) fuel tank behind seat.
    Plus myriad other things. (Pretty much suspend the engine, and build the airplane around it) You gain climb performance, mabe a little bit of speed, no useful load increase, Burn more gas, making an already short legged airplane even more shorter. But, with that said, it would be a hoot to have one.
    The O235 in the Yankee is an oddball. Ours started using oil at an accelerated rate, and needed new cylinders. I started looking at buying one to get the jugs, and overhaul the rest over time. Those are kinda scarce, and one from a 152, or pa38-112 will not work.
     
    Strutwipe likes this.
  16. Hiperbiper

    Hiperbiper Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    622
    Location:
    Shreveport La.
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Chris Carlson
    A good half-way point is upgrading the 108 hp -C2C into an 125 hp -L2C Sparrowhawk conversion...
    STC paperwork and new pistons and jugs (same as the Cessna 152, Traumahawk) and a different prop or re-pitch yours...
    Nothing hard about finding parts. Great little engine. No more or less prone to damage from disuse than any other aircraft engine.
    There's an STC to put the AA5 nose strut on the AA1 series but unless you bang it on the stock strut is just fine. The place where they break is the torque tube that runs across the cabin the strut plugs into, it's glued to the fuselage sides and when THAT breaks loose you're taxi ing on your prop tips...
    Wonderful little airplanes. I've owned 3. I like the way the -B model wing flys as opposed to the AA1 but thats JMPO.

    Chris
     
    Strutwipe likes this.
  17. MBDiagMan

    MBDiagMan En-Route

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    4,211
    Location:
    NorthEast Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Doc
    So what leads you to believe that there is a problem with the bottom end? Is it not holding good oil pressure?
     
    Strutwipe likes this.
  18. Strutwipe

    Strutwipe Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    May 8, 2019
    Messages:
    152
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Strutwipe
    All engines will fail. One that is high time and has been stagnant is a risk I'm not willing to take. As Bluerooster states, the -C2C is an oddball engine which increase part cost. With the short range, I just don't think it will be worth the time. Thanks all for your input.
     
  19. William Pete Hodges

    William Pete Hodges Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2020
    Messages:
    194
    Location:
    Virginia
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Petehdgs
    Mark
    You didn't say what you are looking for in an airplane or what kind of money you are willing to spend, or how much he wants for it... you should be able to find a well maintained bird with 1200-1500 SMOH for a reasonable price and you can fly right away. Want a Grumman Yankee with an 0-320? Somebody is selling one somewhere, if not today then maybe tomorrow. Keep looking and you'll find a good bird. Do the numbers, get a good prebuy inspection, and go for it.

    Good luck.
     
    Strutwipe and MBDiagMan like this.
  20. Strutwipe

    Strutwipe Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    May 8, 2019
    Messages:
    152
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Strutwipe
    Thanks Pete. Actually, I've been looking for a Tomahawk/150 or similar training aircraft for my PPL, advertise, and promote my product StrutWipe. The Yankee is at my home station which is very appealing. The AA1 is at a reasonable price, 19K, but putting in an additional 5K+ in part just does not make sense. With that being said, you are correct to keep looking. I have found a PA 38 that is IFR certified with GPS. The engine time is a little high at 1850 hrs but has been on oil analysis which show normal trends. All of the ADs have either been complied with or is current. So for 22K it looks like a solid Arizona bird. The pre-buy is schedule for the second weekend in Jan, so I should have it here in Tucson soon. The TH was a trainer in Virginia so you may of seen it around.
     

    Attached Files:

    Rgbeard and William Pete Hodges like this.