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Discussion in 'Maintenance Bay' started by Tom-D, Dec 2, 2019.
can a A&P sign off a Ferry permit with out a Aircraft Worthiness Certificate.
I don't think that would be a good idea. I inadvertently did that in Arkansas earlier this year and when the owner went to the fsdo to get the permit, we discovered that there was an issue with the airworthiness certificate. Luckily it didn't bite me.
Great to see you back, Tom!
it is coming back slowing, getting help spelling.
not working yet.
Heck, you couldn’t spell before. . Keep giving it hell.
Yes. But I doubt you could get a SFP approved over the phone and faxed without an actual AWC onboard the aircraft. Would require FSDO personal service.
Good to see you vertical/sitting.
Hi, Tom. Good to see you posting. I hope all is well.
A ferry permit is a special airworthiness certificate, so it sounds reasonable you would not need the standard airworthiness certificate because it wouldn’t be valid anyway.
Insurance is a potential issue under a ferry permit, so why not just get a both.
Reread the OP's post in post 1.
An A&P must sign the ferry permit. If no AWC is found in the aircraft, the A&P needs to make a decision. The preferable route would be to contact the FSDO and have them verify and reissue the AWC.
§91.203 Civil aircraft: Certifications required.
(a) Except as provided in §91.715, no person may operate a civil aircraft unless it has within it the following:
(1) An appropriate and current airworthiness certificate.
(§91.715 has to do with foreign a/c)
“A Special Flight Permit is not an authorization to deviate from the requirements of 14 CFR Part 91”
Fsdo is no longer issuing them. You have to hire a DAR. And they have to come look at the airplane.
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Are you talking Airworthiness Certificate?
FSDO still issues those. See http://fsims.faa.gov/wdocs/8900.1/v08 tech functions/chapter 05/08_005_001.htm
If talking E/AB certs then yes. All other certs FSDOs still issuing with special flight permits still a FSDO speciality.
my WAG is since you need to talk to the FSDO to get the SFP approved anyway, discuss it with them when you are asking for the SFP. good to see you back tom, and i will try not to get you to wound up until you are back to 100%
and its time that EAA send the big dog lawyers after them. where is their authorization to privatize a function that they are charged with under federal law? the tampa FSDO will not even issue a CFI renewal even if you do the course you have to get a DPE to issue the cert now.
If the FSDO is requiring someone to pay a DPE for a service they can do, then a complaint needs to be filed with a congressman or senator.
FSDO's are currently understaffed with Operations Inspectors, but AST's (Aviation Safety Technician) can also renew CFI's.
directly from the faa.gov site:
Until further notice, the Tampa Flight Standards District Office is NOT accepting appointments for any of the following Designated Pilot Examiner (DPE) functions:
Remote Pilot Certificates
Private Pilot Certificate Based on Foreign Certificate
SIC Type Rating Applications
SOE restriction removals
Restricted ATP limitation removal
Student pilot certificates (seeking Private or Sport privileges)
Ground Instructor applications (Basic, Advanced and Instrument)
To locate a DPE, visit the following website and select SW31 or any other office location: Designee Locator
"How are we allowed to delegate?
Public law allows the FAA to leverage its limited resources through delegation. Title 49 of the United States Code (49 USC) 44702(d),says the FAA may delegate to a qualified private person a matter related to issuing certificates, or related to the examination, testing, and inspection necessary to issue a certificate on behalf of the FAA Administrator as authorized by statute to issue under 49 USC 44702(a)."
As mentioned above, send letters to your reps over the "excessive" use of designees. The Designee program is administered at the FSDO level but oversight is at higher levels and there are built in justification rules. Have sent letters myself but it was over the lead times to get something signed vs using a DAR. It can make a positive difference especially if your reps don't like the FAA.
Good to see you back Tom. Always best to be on the right side of the grass.
Not issuing what? FSDO emailed me an airworthiness certificate when we couldn't find one. Same with ferry permits.
Service levels vary significantly between offices. Unless you guys are comparing notes on the same office it’s a futile conversation.
I've gotten a new airworthiness approved over the phone in the course of an hour or two. All they needed was to verify the details (N number, serial number, etc...). The SFP took faxing an application and a copy of the A&P signoff but didn't take any longer. CLT FSDO (ymmv).
By the way, the FAA doesn't issue paper airworthiness certificates anymore. They're all PDFs that you're responsible for printing out. The FCC went this way some time ago. I always laugh in that all my certificates are watermarked "Official Copy" which I can print as many as I like. If you ask for a duplicate, you get ones watermarked "Duplicate Copy."
Depends.....just did one a few months ago.
but it had an airworthiness cert.
Can a FSDO refuse to issue a Ferry permit ?
Let's say FSDO knows there is unsafe conditions, like a previous accident that is not repaired.
Or they simply put it on the A/P
Yes they can, and they have.
My answer was directed to the OP where no AWC was in aircraft for the SFP to take effect. The only time I signed a SFP with no AWC in the aircraft was during an export process where we flew a helicopter to a shipping dock after the Export C of A was issued. FSDO hand carried it to us.
And they should.