Fear of fall?

so far, including today 5 hrs of flight and about the same ground school. but here is the thing, they haven't gone over any theory whatsoever. I don't mind because I am a hands-on guy, but for something as complex of flying a plane, I would think they would ask me a question or two before handing the yolk over to me. so far the only thing I am doing is 30 mins of pre flight check and 30 mins of paperwork after I leave, I think. at least that's what my bill shows. today I asked my CFI about the AOA and lets just say the reply I got wasn't very convincing. anyway, that's not gonna be a problem for long... met my flight school manager for a complete different discussion about aircraft ownership (yeah I am crazy stupid, just ask my ex wife) and among various things he mentioned there is another sr trainer with a ton of experience and hours available to take me up under his wings. I gracefully accepted :).

today, however I did make some progress. made few 20 degree turns.. I know its not a big deal, but for me it is. its progress, a slow one, nonetheless positive reinforcement. I was planning on taking off today, but as i was doing the run up checklist, tower called and asked for a immediate take off since there was a jet waiting for take-off and they didn't want a 172 swivel around in the wake of that thing. so take off is for the next class i guess.

i will keep sharing my experience throughout this journey and please keep the feedback flowing. i am sure it will help someone like me down the road. you guys have been awesome, love this community already. cant take plane with most of my friends, they think i am just nuts getting on a small plane with single point of failure ... aka single engine. someone ever suggested i should learn in a twin!! ... i don't bring up flight school with her anymore ..lol

you guys rock. later
 
Something seems a little off if you're at 5 hours without a takeoff, and zero theory has been discussed... but we aren't there so we can't see exactly what's going on.
 
I have a feeling something off too, but I know nothing about this industry or the curriculum .. so I will give the benefit of the doubt to the other party. will see how the next chapter pans out.
 
I have a feeling something off too, but I know nothing about this industry or the curriculum .. so I will give the benefit of the doubt to the other party. will see how the next chapter pans out.

You might ask what curriculum is being used. Granted there's a lot of places that don't have a written one, but should...
 
its a Cessna training school so they should be following that curriculum CPC 1..CPC 2.. etc. I will check when I meet the new CFI sometime this week. wx is as bad as it gets :(
 
so far, including today 5 hrs of flight and about the same ground school. but here is the thing, they haven't gone over any theory whatsoever. I don't mind because I am a hands-on guy, but for something as complex of flying a plane, I would think they would ask me a question or two before handing the yolk over to me. so far the only thing I am doing is 30 mins of pre flight check and 30 mins of paperwork after I leave, I think. at least that's what my bill shows. today I asked my CFI about the AOA and lets just say the reply I got wasn't very convincing. anyway, that's not gonna be a problem for long... met my flight school manager for a complete different discussion about aircraft ownership (yeah I am crazy stupid, just ask my ex wife) and among various things he mentioned there is another sr trainer with a ton of experience and hours available to take me up under his wings. I gracefully accepted :).

today, however I did make some progress. made few 20 degree turns.. I know its not a big deal, but for me it is. its progress, a slow one, nonetheless positive reinforcement. I was planning on taking off today, but as i was doing the run up checklist, tower called and asked for a immediate take off since there was a jet waiting for take-off and they didn't want a 172 swivel around in the wake of that thing. so take off is for the next class i guess.

i will keep sharing my experience throughout this journey and please keep the feedback flowing. i am sure it will help someone like me down the road. you guys have been awesome, love this community already. cant take plane with most of my friends, they think i am just nuts getting on a small plane with single point of failure ... aka single engine. someone ever suggested i should learn in a twin!! ... i don't bring up flight school with her anymore ..lol

you guys rock. later

My rule is: If the tower says "Cleared for immediate takeoff or hold short," I'm gonna hold short. Three minute delay, four minute delay, I don't care...mistakes get made when people rush an activity.

Bob
 
My rule is: If the tower says "Cleared for immediate takeoff or hold short," I'm gonna hold short. Three minute delay, four minute delay, I don't care...mistakes get made when people rush an activity.

There are days at APA where you'd never get out. Heh. But agreed, if it feels rushed, don't do it.

Knowing that it's coming right behind @Everskyward landing... can mean you're prepared for it. :)

That plus our weird "Contact ground when ready for takeoff" and our run-up areas that you get taxi clearance to, then being sequenced by ground in the conga line to the hold short and told to "monitor tower", is a big hint that when you're holding short here, it's time to be ready to go.

"No delay, Falcon jet three mile final, Cleared for takeoff, Runway 35 Right, fly straight out, expect to make left closed traffic for runway 35 Left after departure, I'll call your crosswind turn..." is the everyday standard departure at APA in any airplane or wind conditions that can't depart Runway 10, or is planning to remain in the pattern.

You'll be over there on 35L or 17R until you tell them the next one is a full stop, then if you're lucky they can sequence you back over to 35R/17L to save the long taxi and mandatory wait to cross to get back to the ramp.

If you count four or five doing laps on the short parallel, and jets stacked up for ten miles for the long parallel, wise folk leave and head for FTG to maximize student time (and buy slightly cheaper gas at the self-serve before coming back).

You get used to it and can make it not rushed... but agreed... anywhere that's not the norm, if you're not ready to go... tell 'em you'll wait. If you do that here, you've already told Ground you're ready to go, and you'll hear the groans of five people behind you if you say you'll wait...

Keep in mind we also have to tell Ground here if your run up is complete. They will taxi you to a painted run-up area that you can't exit (solid line) without another taxi clearance if you say you haven't done your run-up already. Totally normal around here. Heh.
 
There are days at APA where you'd never get out. Heh. But agreed, if it feels rushed, don't do it.

Knowing that it's coming right behind @Everskyward landing... can mean you're prepared for it. :)

That plus our weird "Contact ground when ready for takeoff" and our run-up areas that you get taxi clearance to, then being sequenced by ground in the conga line to the hold short and told to "monitor tower", is a big hint that when you're holding short here, it's time to be ready to go.

"No delay, Falcon jet three mile final, Cleared for takeoff, Runway 35 Right, fly straight out, expect to make left closed traffic for runway 35 Left after departure, I'll call your crosswind turn..." is the everyday standard departure at APA in any airplane or wind conditions that can't depart Runway 10, or is planning to remain in the pattern.

You'll be over there on 35L or 17R until you tell them the next one is a full stop, then if you're lucky they can sequence you back over to 35R/17L to save the long taxi and mandatory wait to cross to get back to the ramp.

If you count four or five doing laps on the short parallel, and jets stacked up for ten miles for the long parallel, wise folk leave and head for FTG to maximize student time (and buy slightly cheaper gas at the self-serve before coming back).

You get used to it and can make it not rushed... but agreed... anywhere that's not the norm, if you're not ready to go... tell 'em you'll wait. If you do that here, you've already told Ground you're ready to go, and you'll hear the groans of five people behind you if you say you'll wait...

Keep in mind we also have to tell Ground here if your run up is complete. They will taxi you to a painted run-up area that you can't exit (solid line) without another taxi clearance if you say you haven't done your run-up already. Totally normal around here. Heh.

Many, Many years ago I ferried a Bellanca from Boeing Field to Centennial (now APA if I understand correctly). Pretty quiet place back then.

Bob
 
Many, Many years ago I ferried a Bellanca from Boeing Field to Centennial (now APA if I understand correctly). Pretty quiet place back then.

Yeah it was a lot quieter back when it was Arapahoe County Airport. (Thus APA..)

I make fun of Rocky Mountain Metropolitan for being "metrosexual" for changing their name from [Broomfield] Jefferson County Airport (BJC) "JeffCo Tower" to "Metro Tower" for marketing reasons...

But "Centennial" did it first! :)

But I was flying out of the (long dead now and gone) Aurora Airpark and later "Tri-County" Airport, now known as Erie (EIK but it changed identifiers a while back) back when Centennial was quieter, and it was already Centennial by then.

I think I've finally busted the habit of saying "Jeff... uhhhh... Metro Tower..." on the radio though. ;)

I don't quite feel like a dinosaur yet, but I see it coming on the horizon. Ha.
 
Yeah it was a lot quieter back when it was Arapahoe County Airport. (Thus APA..)

I make fun of Rocky Mountain Metropolitan for being "metrosexual" for changing their name from [Broomfield] Jefferson County Airport (BJC) "JeffCo Tower" to "Metro Tower" for marketing reasons...

But "Centennial" did it first! :)

But I was flying out of the (long dead now and gone) Aurora Airpark and later "Tri-County" Airport, now known as Erie (EIK but it changed identifiers a while back) back when Centennial was quieter, and it was already Centennial by then.

I think I've finally busted the habit of saying "Jeff... uhhhh... Metro Tower..." on the radio though. ;)

I don't quite feel like a dinosaur yet, but I see it coming on the horizon. Ha.
I've got some bad news for ya Nate.
 
Good experience. Sometimes a change of CFI works out. I liked what this CFI did for you this lesson. You're hesitant about things and like he said, overthinking it. He's there next to you and he won't allow you to get into a dangerous situation. His ass is up there to. But I'm glad he more or less forced you to do what he wanted you to do, and you did it and liked it. Always try to study and read over what your next lesson will cover. Be prepared and you'll begin to enjoy it all. Good luck!
 
What is that a screenshot of? Nearly impossible to read on a mobile device...
Apologies, I wrote it elsewhere and pasted, it took the low fonts, I will increase the fonts

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alright for the sake of readability... reposting

Alright I am going hijack my own thread back...

So yesterday I went flying with my new instructor and here is how everything unfolded...
It was OVC2700 early in the day, I texted him asking can we fly at all today or should be reschedule. he replied saying just come over, we will find a hole :p

We sat in his office and he asked me what I am feeling when I am up there, I told him my ridiculous fear, he asked me a few questions to clarify if I knew the basics of flying etc and then he said we are going to try an unorthodox move today, we will try to fly under the hood for first 30 mins and then with visual reference without instruments for the next 30 and see how it goes. our goal would be 20 degree turns with comfort. I agreed.

preflight done, run up done, I told him I haven't taken off yet and that he should take off and hand over controls to me once we are about 4k feet. he calmly said in a godly voice... "No you are taking off, I will help". and before he finished his sentence we were full power down the runway. I did my first take off (instructor assisted, he was doing the rudder). climbed to 4k. he trimmed the aircraft and showed me how it pretty much flies on its own. then he put the AP/FD on and kept moving the changing the heading and showed how AP would fly the plane.

no sweaty palms yet...

next I put on the Foggles , he put the FD on (I think) and asked me to follow the pink moustache with no gap between the pink and the yellow line as he was changing the heading willy nilly. I did it just like a game trying to follow the FD as close as I can... need more practice on that one for sure. climbed, descended .. turned around. I couldn't see outside, never it crossed my mind that I was going to fall down, I was too busy chasing the darn pink moustache...
no sweaty palms, no death grip. albeit when he asked me to climb with full throttle to 5k, I didn't. more on that later.
next he said ok, now lets get your outside reference back, take your foggles off and we will fly by visual reference. by the time I was done taking off the headset, foggles, put my glasses back and made sure not to drop anything (did I say I was big and 172 you all already know 172 shoulder room), he turned the PFD contrast to ZERO, handed me the controls and that godly voice again said, now fly the plane…. Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat????

I had no reference of what pitch angle was, I had no idea where the ball was, I had no idea what angle of bank I was taking on a turn. It was exhilarating experience. Also, I completely forgot that there is a steam gauge which is still not covered and I can easily look at it. I thought of that after we landed :). Anyway, there I was flying the plane with NO instrument reference whatsoever. I told him a few times … I think I cant control the plane, would you take over? The godly voice in my headset said .. You are doing fine, just fly the plane. He took away my crutch, my only hope that when I want to hand over the controls, there is someone there next me. Nopes, I didn’t had a choice.

After some nerve wrecking moments, don’t know when.. But I suddenly realized that I AM flying the plane and when there are no instruments to focus on, how enjoyable the flying part actually is. This is the first time in 5 hours I am actually enjoying what I am doing.

He asked me to descend and get into landing pattern (palms are sweating now, I have no freaggin idea what my pitch angle is), I asked him whats my pitch angle and whats the bank angle that I just made and before he could answer, I said, you know what, I don’t care, I am enjoying this…. Tower calls to look out for a king air, I couldn’t care less, I at 1900, King at 3500. funny part, I was looking at the steam gauge altimeter for altitude, didn’t occur to me to look at the dial to the left for the bank angle :)

He took over controls from an extended downwind to base and right when he was walking me through the base to final turn… I was a rainbow… I didn’t have to look up to see one, it was right in front of me… it was out of the world experience, guess now I know why birds sing. Its just beautiful and I cant wait to go back.

Post flight brief, he said .. I think this is what was going on, 1. you were trying to juggle too much and overthinking everything. 2. we separated your instrument and visual reference. Down the road, we will put them back.

It worked!!

A couple of things I need to work on - full power climb. I just couldn’t go to a full throttle while climbing from 4k because .. U know I think I will pull the yoke way back, the plane will go out of control and we will go straight up on its tail and drop like rock. Yes, its ridiculous, I know. But what can I do? Its real feeling and I am not a 19 yr old invincible guy anymore. That one for the next time when the godly voice just says, you are fine, just keep going.
O yeah.. I heard that "more right rudder" a few time :)

Overall folks, I cant express what I am feeling since last evening. I came down with an ear to ear smile and still have a grin on my face. I still cant believe I flew a plane, and for once it didn’t feel nerve wreaking. Flying without instrument reference just felt like driving a car, I was feeling what the plane wants to do… this is awesome and I am hooked.


Unfortunately no flying for next 10 days, my CFI is taking some personal time. He offered me another CFI but no way in hell I was going to leave his side, so I told him I will work on ground school and wait for you.

Cant wait to go back…. I know it’s a long read, but hopefully helps someone like me to understand a few things
-- a great CFI is a must have. I am not blaming my previous CFI, she is new with 600 hours and the current has a zillion hours, the experience makes a difference
-- you can fly the plane with pretty much nothing (as my CFI ended my training saying Wright brothers didn’t have any instruments)

Later folks and thanks a lot again to everyone who contributed to this thread and helped me get over my demons (well I am not over it completely, but getting there). Yesterday it was Fear 0, Aviation 1. the match continues…
 
Great to you figured it out. Im not even a PPl student yet but when I started hangliding I had sort of a similar fear, once I started trusting my equipment it went away.
 
alright guys, i guess i owe everyone on this thread an update... today after almost 2 weeks was my 2nd class with my current CFI ... there were some hiccups during take off, just cant control the plane with full power with rudder, most of the times over correcting ..but thats for another class to figure out..

when we went up, some stuff felt new, guess 2 weeks will do that in this stage, did some 20 degree turns, kinda rocking on the left and then on the right starting from 10 degrees to 20. then went under foggles and did 25 and then.. 30 few times.

back to VFR, he put a simulated instrument failure card on the PFD, forced to look outside again and then the same routine, rocking left and right starting from 10 degrees all the way to 30. you may be thinking whats the big deal in a 30 degree bank, but for some reason it is a roadblock that i am encountering and today doing 30 degree bank was an achievement by itself. after the first few, i was full VFR with PFD to glance across at times and did quite a few30 degree turns on my own. yeah, hands were a little sweaty, but for the first 5 hours i couldnt even do that.

after the turns, i played around a little bit banking with rudder alone, descending turn, ascending turns, fly with 10 degree flaps... we were about 27 nm away and on our return to the airport used the AP for 2 mins.. got bored and started hand flying ... trimmed it up perfectly and then just used skidding turns to navigate back to the airport. its odd, but i am more comfortable in steering the plane with my feet.. guess driving habits. it was loads of fun flying it with rudder alone and using trim wheels to adjust attitude and descend, line up on long final perfectly aligned with 2 red 2 white PAPI lights crabbing into 31 kts wind

before i knew it it a 1.6 hrs flight, CFI took over control at 500 AGL and landed. he was very happy with my progress, i am not as happy as he is, i expected more from myself... but thats a diff problem altogether that warrants a diff thread.. may be in hangar talk :)

i wanted to thank everyone on this thread again, you guys were there helping me out when i needed the most - that means a lot to me.
 
Thanks for reposting the text. Awesome! Sounds like your instructor gets it, and modified the scenario to work out the root cause of the phobia and get the eyeballs outside.

Lots of people expect better performance of themselves early on, and it's healthy and natural to be a bit frustrated.

You're syrhesizing both book/head knowledge and new kinesthetic and motor skills together and it feels like "too much" at first for a lot of people.

In fact, the more you worry about it, the less you allow the "feel" of it all to be what you're concentrating on. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt!

(This trap gets real bad with successful perfectionists who take lessons later in life... they've gotten really good at their life patterns and doing things exactly the way they want to do them and suddenly they're feeling like the uncoordinated pre-teen tripping over their own feet again... then they stress and think about that, crowding out the 10% of their brain that's left over that is supposed to be learning... heh heh...)

Here's something to note. When your instructor "unloaded" your brain by removing the panel and instruments -- all of a sudden you not only had some bandwidth to process the actual flying, but you repeatedly said "that was fun!"...

That's the state all my best instructors over the years were always hunting for as a reaction from students.

Learning for most people, triggers feelings of accomplishment, and those trigger the general feeling of fun... you finally feel like you can BE a pilot. And that's a blast.

Think you have a good instructor there. He adapted to your emotional state and figure out a method to help you peek over the wall you thought was insurmountable. Then you started climbing the wall.

It's as fun to read that you're doing well as it is to read that you found a real teacher there. Even the "rocking the aircraft back and forth" is a great technique. It lowers the total time holding 30 degrees (or more as you progress through the feeling of fear of falling and get used to the airplane NOT falling) but also gives you something concrete to do so you're focused on that instead of watching an instrument and a bank angle.

Good stuff.
 
after the turns, i played around a little bit banking with rudder alone, descending turn, ascending turns, fly with 10 degree flaps... we were about 27 nm away and on our return to the airport used the AP for 2 mins.. got bored and started hand flying ... trimmed it up perfectly and then just used skidding turns to navigate back to the airport. its odd, but i am more comfortable in steering the plane with my feet.. guess driving habits. it was loads of fun flying it with rudder alone and using trim wheels to adjust attitude and descend, line up on long final perfectly aligned with 2 red 2 white PAPI lights crabbing into 31 kts wind
Sounds like you're making good progress! :yes:

Just one comment: was the part I bolded a typo? 31 knots wind, much of it a cross wind? I'm not sure where you're flying out of, but in most places that much wind close to the ground would produce quite a lot of turbulence. If the winds were really that frisky I'm surprised your instructor took you up in it this early in your training - but good on you for being sporting about it and (it sounds like) even enjoying it!
 
Sounds like you're making good progress! :yes:

Just one comment: was the part I bolded a typo? 31 knots wind, much of it a cross wind? I'm not sure where you're flying out of, but in most places that much wind close to the ground would produce quite a lot of turbulence. If the winds were really that frisky I'm surprised your instructor took you up in it this early in your training - but good on you for being sporting about it and (it sounds like) even enjoying it!
Nopes, not Typo, the wind was a 31kt headwind at about 3.5k msl, died down to 14kt at about 1500 msl. It was surprisingly pretty smooth , with very light bumps that felt like more like floating in a boat for little bit, but I was having way too much fun flying the plane in trim and rudder and it was an eye opening realization that if the yoke ever dies, u can still fly and land it and the fact that it kinda flies on its own.

Where I am, if u don't go up in wind, I can't go up in winter at all, it's al2ays windy here...most of the times

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
Thanks for reposting the text. Awesome! Sounds like your instructor gets it, and modified the scenario to work out the root cause of the phobia and get the eyeballs outside.

Lots of people expect better performance of themselves early on, and it's healthy and natural to be a bit frustrated.

You're syrhesizing both book/head knowledge and new kinesthetic and motor skills together and it feels like "too much" at first for a lot of people.

In fact, the more you worry about it, the less you allow the "feel" of it all to be what you're concentrating on. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt!

(This trap gets real bad with successful perfectionists who take lessons later in life... they've gotten really good at their life patterns and doing things exactly the way they want to do them and suddenly they're feeling like the uncoordinated pre-teen tripping over their own feet again... then they stress and think about that, crowding out the 10% of their brain that's left over that is supposed to be learning... heh heh...)

Here's something to note. When your instructor "unloaded" your brain by removing the panel and instruments -- all of a sudden you not only had some bandwidth to process the actual flying, but you repeatedly said "that was fun!"...

That's the state all my best instructors over the years were always hunting for as a reaction from students.

Learning for most people, triggers feelings of accomplishment, and those trigger the general feeling of fun... you finally feel like you can BE a pilot. And that's a blast.

Think you have a good instructor there. He adapted to your emotional state and figure out a method to help you peek over the wall you thought was insurmountable. Then you started climbing the wall.

It's as fun to read that you're doing well as it is to read that you found a real teacher there. Even the "rocking the aircraft back and forth" is a great technique. It lowers the total time holding 30 degrees (or more as you progress through the feeling of fear of falling and get used to the airplane NOT falling) but also gives you something concrete to do so you're focused on that instead of watching an instrument and a bank angle.

Good stuff.
Thanks @denverpilot. You have been very supportive from day 1 and yes, I found a real teacher. I am glad I found him, or the chief found him for me after he realized I am going nowhere and this school is not a who cares let's take his money kinda school. He is a great guy, doing this for 30 years. I am having a blast when the damn g1000 is off, else I am gazing mostly at it and it takes the joy out compketely... too many things to chase in that screen

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
Thanks @denverpilot. You have been very supportive from day 1 and yes, I found a real teacher. I am glad I found him, or the chief found him for me after he realized I am going nowhere and this school is not a who cares let's take his money kinda school. He is a great guy, doing this for 30 years. I am having a blast when the damn g1000 is off, else I am gazing mostly at it and it takes the joy out compketely... too many things to chase in that screen

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

I've long had that suspicion about training in G1000. There really is a lot of stuff thrown in there, well beyond the usual information firehose, and almost all of it is irrelevant for presolo training.

I trained in a well equipped steam gauge 172. It had a Garmin 430W, but we used it as a radio. I switched to a different 172N post-solo because the first one was weak enough that it really should have been overhauled (it was done a year later, and it's now a pretty damn capable 172). That one didn't have any GPS at all.

Do you have access to a different 172? G1000 seems to be actively interfering with your flight training. You can transition afterward.
 
I've long had that suspicion about training in G1000. There really is a lot of stuff thrown in there, well beyond the usual information firehose, and almost all of it is irrelevant for presolo training.

I trained in a well equipped steam gauge 172. It had a Garmin 430W, but we used it as a radio. I switched to a different 172N post-solo because the first one was weak enough that it really should have been overhauled (it was done a year later, and it's now a pretty damn capable 172). That one didn't have any GPS at all.

Do you have access to a different 172? G1000 seems to be actively interfering with your flight training. You can transition afterward.
They don't, all 3 of their 172 has g1000, and 2 sky catcher with whatever equivalent Garmin glass cockpit. The door have a 182, don't know what's in that, I will fly that once and see...yeah, at this point g1000 is nothing more than a distraction

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They don't, all 3 of their 172 has g1000, and 2 sky catcher with whatever equivalent Garmin glass cockpit. The door have a 182, don't know what's in that, I will fly that once and see...yeah, at this point g1000 is nothing more than a distraction

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182s have a few extra controls that might get in your way separately. Cowl flaps and prop RPM have to be checked at every critical point. They are more stable than 172s, but usually quite a bit more expensive, too. The sight picture is slightly different due to a larger panel. They also like to take off with 10 flaps for normal takeoffs, 20 for short/soft. So, there are some procedural differences, and I wouldn't suggest going back and forth for a presolo student. Controls are also quite a bit heavier than a 172, though that's probably a good thing as it encourages frequent trim.

While not officially "complex" aircraft (unless they have retractible gear -- some do), they are more complex than 172s.

Is there a different outfit out there with more appropriate planes? Instructors are seldom limited to one FBO.

Where are you anyway?
 
The G1000 will be fine for training. Just don't get too focused inside. 99% of your training is visual maneuvers with the use of outside references. Instruments are there just to cross check that your outside references are telling the same thing as inside.
 
Sounds like you've got it licked. We have some good welders that struggle with heights. Some give up and stay in the shop. Others gut it out. Over time, they get more comfortable and more confident. Familiarity breeds comfort.

QA1Q7786.jpeg

QA1Q7813.jpeg
 
182s have a few extra controls that might get in your way separately. Cowl flaps and prop RPM have to be checked at every critical point. They are more stable than 172s, but usually quite a bit more expensive, too. The sight picture is slightly different due to a larger panel. They also like to take off with 10 flaps for normal takeoffs, 20 for short/soft. So, there are some procedural differences, and I wouldn't suggest going back and forth for a presolo student. Controls are also quite a bit heavier than a 172, though that's probably a good thing as it encourages frequent trim.

While not officially "complex" aircraft (unless they have retractible gear -- some do), they are more complex than 172s.

Is there a different outfit out there with more appropriate planes? Instructors are seldom limited to one FBO.

Where are you anyway?
KFAR. This is the only cessna school out here, there is one an hour away, but with the weather around here in winter, I am not keen on driving an hour and get grounded with weather, and more importantly... I don't want to go up with anyone else other than this CFI...

182 is out then. I will see if I can turn off the PFD or turn off myself and not look at it as much as I do

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KFAR. This is the only cessna school out here, there is one an hour away, but with the weather around here in winter, I am not keen on driving an hour and get grounded with weather, and more importantly... I don't want to go up with anyone else other than this CFI...

182 is out then. I will see if I can turn off the PFD or turn off myself and not look at it as much as I do

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Yeah, but that hour away is UND....

Probably rather expensive.

What do you need a Cessna school for? Their syllabus is good, but it's basically the same as Jepp's, and hence just about everyone else. There are only so many ways to learn to fly.

While there are some differences in details and procedures, all airplanes basically fly the same.
 
Yeah, but that hour away is UND....

Probably rather expensive.

What do you need a Cessna school for? Their syllabus is good, but it's basically the same as Jepp's, and hence just about everyone else. There are only so many ways to learn to fly.

While there are some differences in details and procedures, all airplanes basically fly the same.
Yeah cessna school probably doesn't matter, rt now it's my instructor that I am not willing to leave. UND is much more expensive, but I think there is another school in Grand forks, but same location and I have heard not so good reviews about them

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The G1000 will be fine for training. Just don't get too focused inside. 99% of your training is visual maneuvers with the use of outside references. Instruments are there just to cross check that your outside references are telling the same thing as inside.
That's exactly what my CFI says, I have to consciously try it. Instruments kinda draws me... that's what I do in my day job

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Man that's high

Nah. That's low.

This is high. Time to change the lightbulb so that NOTAM about the tower being unlit can be cancelled and no fine is levied...


I usually have at least one nightmare where I wake up feeling like I was falling after climbing 100-200'ers.

Was taught by pros like these guys and use the same safety gear, techniques, etc. and I still don't really lIke it. Just have to do it to get things done(TM).

Worst is doing it in wind strong enough that it tries to pull large wrenches and tools out of your hands. We usually tie those off to the tool bag but can't always depending on the work area and entanglement possibilities.

I haven't seen it myself, but a friend who does it professionally saw a guy get whacked from above by a wrench that bounced off his hard hat but the hard hat didn't have a lip (like telephone lineman's hard hats usually do all the way around) and it snapped his collarbone on the way by.

Tower buddy had to climb down to him and assist him with getting down one-handed. Went slow and the buddy handled his tie offs as they worked down with stops every so often to rest the arm by attaching the seat anchors so he could rest leaning back.

Not supposed to do it, but I've also heard of guys getting injured and riding the crane ball down as the quickest way to get them off the tower. Riding the crane ball is a big no-no. The crane is for equipment, not humans. Humans climb the tower. (Some huge towers have man-lift electric winch elevators inside the tower cage, but not many.)
 
Yeah - I have some pictures I wouldn't post on a public forum. Examples of what not to do and why I was uncharacteristically demonstrative in the following conversation.

From memory, that standpipe was about 120'. 156' is about as tall as we like to do.

It's also why I fly a lot. Got to make sure those guys are staying safe. A seasoned crew gets very comfortable up high.
 
Thought will update this thread with my progress and make this a diary of a wimpy kid... went up for some pattern work, as usual bumpy as hell, after about 3 failed attempts by my CFI to make me land, we went up in smoother air just for flying around. To utilize the time, thought will try seem steep turns and went ahead with it. Didn't ask him to show it, but thought will try myself and see where it goes and everything goes to hell, well, he is there to save his butt and mine. Did the steep turns all my myself 4 of them, though didn't stay in the turn for long, but did them all by myself.... big feat for me... kinda like it too. Lost 400 ft, but that's for another day...tomorrow.

Still can't do jack when I am in turbulance... like won't bank more than 15. CFI even put the plane in unusual attitudes and I recovered just fine. He told me all my instincts are there to level the wings and I always do them... but when it comes to turbulance... can't handle jack.

Getting there and will get there. Some 60 degree turns coming up shortly

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I'd never heard the idea of flying a low-wing to combat it, but I get the concept. But the biggest take out of all this, would be in my opinion, the emergency landing scenario. It might sound scary to a new pilot such as yourself, but once you understand that you aren't going to 'fall' but just glide, may help you with the concept. Talk to your CFI, explain your fears, and let him/her guide you to towards getting comfortable. As you move on more with your lessons and develop confidence that you are in control of an aircraft that, by design, is going to want to fly anyway, I think you'll find that fear of 'fall' starts to diminish. As so many have already said, this flying thing is kinda psychological. Once you teach your brain that this 3 dimensional reality is actually 'normal', you'll have it before too long.

Best wishes, and keep us posted!
 
I'd never heard the idea of flying a low-wing to combat it, but I get the concept. But the biggest take out of all this, would be in my opinion, the emergency landing scenario. It might sound scary to a new pilot such as yourself, but once you understand that you aren't going to 'fall' but just glide, may help you with the concept. Talk to your CFI, explain your fears, and let him/her guide you to towards getting comfortable. As you move on more with your lessons and develop confidence that you are in control of an aircraft that, by design, is going to want to fly anyway, I think you'll find that fear of 'fall' starts to diminish. As so many have already said, this flying thing is kinda psychological. Once you teach your brain that this 3 dimensional reality is actually 'normal', you'll have it before too long.

Best wishes, and keep us posted!
Yepp, did a few engine outs already and doesn't bother me, in fact always feel that the plane flies much smoother with idle cut off!! It's the bumping around 400 ft close the ground bothers the hell out of me, all my muscles stiffen up and onbiviously landing is out of question.... Will practice more to and make it the new normal...

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