FAR Question - Bi-Annual Flight Review

kontiki

kontiki

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Kontiki
All,

I got my instrument rating about a year after my private pilot license, at a part 141 school.

When I got it, they told me at the school, that I could start counting the 24 months on the bi-annual from the date of the IFR check ride.

I'm a trust, but verify kind of guy. Plus, knowledge of regulations is a marketable skill, so I try to understand them for my self.

Unfortunately, looking at 14CFR61.58, I don't know if I see it or not.

Para (d) allows for compliance on a 24 month proficency check by accomplishment of a type rating.

Is an IFR rating a type rating? 14CFR1.1 describes "Type" as specific make and model aircraft.

I'll ask the school next time I'm down there with an AIM, but it's been bugging me. I haven't timed out yet, but I do set reminders in my calendar tools.

Can anybody familiar with this topic shed some light?

Thanks,
 
well, technically a bi-annual is twice PER year, and a biennial is once every two years...

61.56(d) is what you are looking for:

(d) A person who has, within the period specified in paragraph (c) of this section, passed a pilot proficiency check conducted by an examiner, an approved pilot check airman, or a U.S. Armed Force, for a pilot certificate, rating, or operating privilege need not accomplish the flight review required by this section.

Any sort of pilot check ride (IR, Commercial, ATP, SES, MEL, MES, Blimp, Glider, etc...) satisfies the requirement and resets the clock on 61.56.
 
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...and an Instrument rating is not a "type rating." That term is reserved for a rating to fly a specific make/model of aircraft when that aircraft is over 12,500 lb GW or jet. Also, the reg you were looking at (61.58) covers being PIC in an aircraft requiring two pilots. While a 61.58 PIC check is an acceptable substitute for a 61.56 flight review, it's not the reg you need to be looking at for the answer to your question.
 
Does complex or high performance enforcement qualifies for "for a pilot certificate, rating, or operating privilege need not accomplish the flight review required by this section"?
 
Artiom said:
Does complex or high performance enforcement qualifies for "for a pilot certificate, rating, or operating privilege need not accomplish the flight review required by this section"?
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Not unless the flight instructor makes it a flight review by doing the 1 hour of ground as per the FAR and also writes you a flight review endorsement. Most flight instructors would gladly merge a flight review in with a high performance or complex endorsement. You just need to let them know that's what you want from the start.

As an example--adding an instrument rating to your certificate, or upgrading to a commercial certificate, would count as a flight review.
 
Artiom said:
Does complex or high performance enforcement qualifies for "for a pilot certificate, rating, or operating privilege need not accomplish the flight review required by this section"?
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I know that the complex/HP doesn't count, but I wonder what the FAA had in mind with, "or operating privilege" as you either need a new rating or type certificate to skip the BFR. What's the "operating privilege" that they refer to?

Worded as it is, and not being able to think of any other examples, well maybe HP or complex (or tail wheel) might count. As this is all just legal mumbo jumbo anyway, I can see an argument for it.

What "operating privilege" can you get that ISN'T a certificate or a rating?
 
thomascannon said:
I know that the complex/HP doesn't count, but I wonder what the FAA had in mind with, "or operating privilege" as you either need a new rating or type certificate to skip the BFR. What's the "operating privilege" that they refer to?

Worded as it is, and not being able to think of any other examples, well maybe HP or complex (or tail wheel) might count. As this is all just legal mumbo jumbo anyway, I can see an argument for it.

What "operating privilege" can you get that ISN'T a certificate or a rating?
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Sport pilot.
 
jesse said:
Not unless the flight instructor makes it a flight review by doing the 1 hour of ground as per the FAR and also writes you a flight review endorsement. Most flight instructors would gladly merge a flight review in with a high performance or complex endorsement. You just need to let them know that's what you want from the start.

As an example--adding an instrument rating to your certificate, or upgrading to a commercial certificate, would count as a flight review.
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I did my high performance endorsement with a flight review.

I think I had a very "new/young" instructor, because he really did need some hand holding on what exactly I wanted. I even had to resort to printing off some Chief Counsel Legal Interpretations....
 
Artiom said:
Does complex or high performance enforcement qualifies for "for a pilot certificate, rating, or operating privilege need not accomplish the flight review required by this section"?
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Only if administered by "an examiner, an approved pilot check airman, or a U.S. Armed Force" -- which isn't likely, since additional training endorsements are usually done by someone who is only a CFI. You have to read all of 61.56(d) to see what else counts. Otherwise, it's what Jesse said above.

And the flight review requirement is biennial (every two years), not bi-annual (twice a year). The FAA dropped "biennial" from the title quite a while back, probably because of the semantic confusion, but folks still call them BFR's just like they still call knowledge tests "written tests."
 
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ajstoner21 said:
I did my high performance endorsement with a flight review.

I think I had a very "new/young" instructor, because he really did need some hand holding on what exactly I wanted. I even had to resort to printing off some Chief Counsel Legal Interpretations....
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For my last FR, I decided "If I'm going to do this might as well learn something!" so we did the Complex/HP along with the FR at the same time.
 
I substituted WINGS for a flight review this go around, and felt like i took a LOT more away from it than i did from my first 2 flight reviews.
 
JeffDG said:
For my last FR, I decided "If I'm going to do this might as well learn something!" so we did the Complex/HP along with the FR at the same time.
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Thats pretty much how I have done all my flight reviews.

When it was time for my first flight review, I did a multi-engine add-on, with a complex endorsement. And the High-performance endorsement for the second.

I'm hoping to finish my instrument rating before the next one (money makes planes fly....) or go get a sea plane add-on quick.
 
ajstoner21 said:
When it was time for my first flight review, I did a multi-engine add-on, with a complex endorsement. And the High-performance endorsement for the second.
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Just so's we're all on the same page here...

If you did a "multi-engine add-on," it was the practical test for the AMEL additional class rating which filled the FR square, not the complex endorsement from the endorsing instructor needed to act as PIC in that twin. And the later HP endorsement alone will not suffice -- you'd have to log, and the endorsing instructor would have to sign, sufficient ground and flight training time per 61.56(a), and the instructor would have to enter an explicit 61.56 flight review endorsement along with (or as part of) the 61.31 HP endorsement.

I'm hoping to finish my instrument rating before the next one (money makes planes fly....) or go get a sea plane add-on quick.
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Since both of those involve practical tests, no explicit 61.56 endorsement would be required to meet the 61.56 requirement.
 
Ron Levy said:
Just so's we're all on the same page here...

If you did a "multi-engine add-on," it was the practical test for the AMEL additional class rating which filled the FR square, not the complex endorsement from the endorsing instructor needed to act as PIC in that twin. And the later HP endorsement alone will not suffice -- you'd have to log, and the endorsing instructor would have to sign, sufficient ground and flight training time per 61.56(a), and the instructor would have to enter an explicit 61.56 flight review endorsement along with (or as part of) the 61.31 HP endorsement.

Since both of those involve practical tests, no explicit 61.56 endorsement would be required to meet the 61.56 requirement.
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You are right Ron, I should have clarified that. All I was intending to say was that, when it was time for the Flight Review, I tried to learn something new along with the review.
 
Let me summarize that: HP or complex endoresement does not count as FR unless I specifically ask CFI to combine FR with HP/complex endoresement and do at least one hour of ground and one hour of flying. Is that correct?
 
Correct. They're separate log entries and the FR has specific time rules on it that the CFI must comply with. You can combine them into one flight and the required ground school if you like and the instructor agrees.
 
Artiom said:
Let me summarize that: HP or complex endoresement does not count as FR unless I specifically ask CFI to combine FR with HP/complex endoresement and do at least one hour of ground and one hour of flying. Is that correct?
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You can summarize even tighter:

Nothing outside of the list in 61.56 counts as FR unless I specifically ask CFI to combine FR with it and do at least one hour of ground and one hour of flying (and the CFI giver you the endorsement).

The flipside is also true:

Anything counts as FR if it includes one hour of ground and one hour of flying and the CFI gives you a FR endorsement.

(And yes, the ground has to cover at least the required FR subjects)

I recall one year I went back to an airport that I used to rent from and forgot my logbook. They required a checkout if you hadn't flown with them for more than a year anyway, but since they could not verify my current FR, they did a flight review as part of the recurrent checkout as a CYA.
 
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