FAA shutdown stops sales????

Yes. The government is shut down, and quite a lot of its functions are missing.

However, that website needs to foam at the mouth a little less. Aircraft sales are rather obviously not an important factor in the shutdown.

Generally, if it requires an annual appropriation -- and most things do -- and doesn't involve safety somehow, it's closed.
 
The problem is the FAA office of aircraft registration has been closed. In all previous shutdowns, the office was deemed essential and left open.
 
CT4ME said:
The problem is the FAA office of aircraft registration has been closed. In all previous shutdowns, the office was deemed essential and left open.
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Yeah, I can see that decision going either way. Frankly, that website is WAY over the top, as though the President is somehow directly preventing aircraft sales. I'm not saying both sides aren't to blame... not at all... but the fact is government isn't funded so a lot of stuff isn't getting done, and sometimes it's stuff we care about personally. It sucks.
 
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I don't know if this differs for commercial or larger aircraft, but....

For GA, you fill out an application form which is a carbon paper deal. You mail that off to the FAA and keep the pink copy. The seller mails another form notifying then of the sale.

The pink copy of the application is your registration and is valid for 90 days. I don't see how that would prevent anyone from completing a sale right now.

However, in my case my 90 days almost up, after a month long turnaround I had to get a different format bill of sale for them. Then a few more weeks to get the sellers signature on it. Now they're closed and my registration isn't processed yet :(
 
A buddy of mine just sold his Seneca V and the deal is on hold until the buyer can transfer the registration. It's going to South America and the buyers have the money in escrow, pre-buy is done, just waiting on OKC. :mad2: He was already having second thoughts about selling, I wouldn't bet on the deal going through at this point. :dunno:
 
You can still buy and sell airplanes and send in the paperwork, but it won't be recorded until they reopen, and if you don't have the title search done already, you won't get that done until the government reopens. Also, there's no telling when they will reopen, so you could run out of your 90-day temporary registration period.
 
But of course the government's closed so there's no one to find out you were flying an unregistered aircraft.
 
steingar said:
But of course the government's closed so there's no one to find out you were flying an unregistered aircraft.
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Just don't crash it or otherwise bring yourself to the FAA's attention, because the Inspectors are still on the job for safety-related and accident investigation purposes, and the dates on the paperwork will remain on file for later investigation.
 
Ron Levy said:
Just don't crash it or otherwise bring yourself to the FAA's attention, because the Inspectors are still on the job for safety-related and accident investigation purposes, and the dates on the paperwork will remain on file for later investigation.
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True, though I think both notions apply equally to the situation when the government in in session and not doing anything despite.
 
Imagine the fuss that would be made if the shutdown made it impossible to buy a car or truck.
 
True, the title search is what is holding up my buddy's deal. He's never had a lien on it, but I guess they want the lien free registration recorded before they release the money. :dunno:

Ron Levy said:
You can still buy and sell airplanes and send in the paperwork, but it won't be recorded until they reopen, and if you don't have the title search done already, you won't get that done until the government reopens. Also, there's no telling when they will reopen, so you could run out of your 90-day temporary registration period.
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cowman said:
I don't know if this differs for commercial or larger aircraft, but....

For GA, you fill out an application form which is a carbon paper deal. You mail that off to the FAA and keep the pink copy. The seller mails another form notifying then of the sale.

The pink copy of the application is your registration and is valid for 90 days. I don't see how that would prevent anyone from completing a sale right now.

However, in my case my 90 days almost up, after a month long turnaround I had to get a different format bill of sale for them. Then a few more weeks to get the sellers signature on it. Now they're closed and my registration isn't processed yet :(
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I'm in the same boat.
 
CT4ME said:
The problem is the FAA office of aircraft registration has been closed. In all previous shutdowns, the office was deemed essential and left open.
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Doesn't much matter to a sale unless they stay closed for months. You have the temp form.
 
MAKG1 said:
If you say so. Some safety inspectors are on the job. Well, working for free for the moment.
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Not sure how they can do that without violating the Antideficiency Act.
Besides, the House has already voted 407 to 0 to pay government workers their back pay for the furloughed time, it isn't like they would be working for free anyway:
http://articles.washingtonpost.com/...-senate-democrats-federal-government-shutdown

Government contracted private firms and their employees aren't covered and may not be so fortunate.

Though the house bill seems to have hit a snag in the Senate:
http://www.federaltimes.com/article...008/Bill-pay-furloughed-feds-hits-snag-Senate
 
NoHeat said:
Imagine the fuss that would be made if the shutdown made it impossible to buy a car or truck.
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I could see that happening if a state govt shuts down, like California ferinstance. Wouldn't that be a hoot.
 
I know of a few planes that are sitting around at a cost of 50K per month each because they can't get conformed and put on a 135 certificate due to this shutdown. I also know of a few pilots who arent getting paid because those planes are just sitting on a ramp.
 
Don't blame me, I've been trying to foment a revolution for a couple of years now.
 
So they shut down the government, but they will pay the back wages for the employees furloughed time?!?!??? How, exactly, is this "saving" money? What difference does it make, other than inconveniencing as many people as possible to make it look like "the enemy (whichever side you choose to look at at the time)" is causing mass hysteria? I really feel bad for our kids and grandkids who have to inherit this mess we are leaving them.

On the brighter side, I guess if my currency runs out, I can always fly without all of that pesky oversight.:D
 
Aztec Driver said:
So they shut down the government, but they will pay the back wages for the employees furloughed time?!?!??? How, exactly, is this "saving" money? What difference does it make, other than inconveniencing as many people as possible to make it look like "the enemy (whichever side you choose to look at at the time)" is causing mass hysteria? I really feel bad for our kids and grandkids who have to inherit this mess we are leaving them.

On the brighter side, I guess if my currency runs out, I can always fly without all of that pesky oversight.:D
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It's sad to think the Founders of this great nation went to such great lengths to place provisions in the Constitution to assure us the ability to foment and stage a revolution because they knew this would happen eventually, yet you feel your only option is to feel bad for your kids and grandkids because you don't have the courage or will to actually use them.
 
damn..I guess it's back too 250 knots below 10.000 msl.

Or no more "Texas 250" as we call it.
 
Henning said:
It's sad to think the Founders of this great nation went to such great lengths to place provisions in the Constitution to assure us the ability to foment and stage a revolution because they knew this would happen eventually, yet you feel your only option is to feel bad for your kids and grandkids because you don't have the courage or will to actually use them.
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"I don't have the courage or will to use them?" You have no idea who I am or what I do. I do utilize avenues that are legal for stating my desires and attempting to change the outcomes of these problems. It is called voting and writing to my various critters in the governments. I see the direction things are moving and feel bad for the next generation, and, if you do not, you are simply wearing blinders and looking through rose colored glasses. You yourself have complained how things are progressing and have many times stated that the world will continue down a terrible path because of overpopulation and lack of societal intelligence. And now you say I don't have the courage or will to "foment and stage a revolution?"

Stuff a sock in it.
 
If you are financing the bank will not release the funds to purchase until they see a clean title, that is holding up a few of our deals.
 
Aztec Driver said:
"I don't have the courage or will to use them?" You have no idea who I am or what I do. I do utilize avenues that are legal for stating my desires and attempting to change the outcomes of these problems. It is called voting and writing to my various critters in the governments. I see the direction things are moving and feel bad for the next generation, and, if you do not, you are simply wearing blinders and looking through rose colored glasses. You yourself have complained how things are progressing and have many times stated that the world will continue down a terrible path because of overpopulation and lack of societal intelligence. And now you say I don't have the courage or will to "foment and stage a revolution?"

Stuff a sock in it.
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He means you don't have the courage or will to pick up a musket and charge your local army base, or federal building, or post office....I don't know.

Don't feel bad though, I don't have the courage or will to do that either. No sane person does.
 
Captain said:
He means you don't have the courage or will to pick up a musket and charge your local army base, or federal building, or post office....I don't know.

Don't feel bad though, I don't have the courage or will to do that either. No sane person does.
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You going to be at the Columbus Day party off Elliot Key this weekend? It might get interesting....
 
Why stage a revolution when you got 700 channels of tv/cable/direct tv to watch and be distracted by. We all figure let someone else figure it out and worry about it, I have to go make my mortgage. and by the way whose right and whose wrong half the population blames the other half so in all likelihood if there were a revolution it would be the wrong people fighting the wrong people. America's Teniman square.
same class angst same class rather than everyone against corporate dictatorship, democratic slavery.
 
Tony_Scarpelli said:
Why stage a revolution when you got 700 channels of tv/cable/direct tv to watch and be distracted by. We all figure let someone else figure it out and worry about it, I have to go make my mortgage. and by the way whose right and whose wrong half the population blames the other half so in all likelihood if there were a revolution it would be the wrong people fighting the wrong people. America's Teniman square.
same class angst same class rather than everyone against corporate dictatorship, democratic slavery.
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That's why a revolution is best fought with a large team of coordinated snipers. In a plutocracy the high value targets are few and soft and easily frightened.
 
N747JB said:
True, the title search is what is holding up my buddy's deal. He's never had a lien on it, but I guess they want the lien free registration recorded before they release the money. :dunno:
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Since you can't record the registration without a bill of sale, and I'd never sign the bill of sale without the money in my hands, I see that as something of a Catch-22. However, if the buyer wants a title search showing no liens before handing over the money (rather than taking your buddy's word that it's lien-free), I think that is a very reasonable position for the buyer to take.

Even if you buddy never had a lien on the plane, it wouldn't be the first time someone tried to sell a plane on which there was a lien the seller did not know existed. Search around this site for some sad tales of such happening, and someone then trying to get the title cleared of an old lien where the lien holder is now dead or out of business.
 
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Ron Levy said:
Since you can't record the registration without a bill of sale, and I'd never sign the bill of sale without the money in my hands, I see that as something of a Catch-22. However, if the buyer wants a title search showing no liens before handing over the money (rather than taking your buddy's word that it's lien-free), I think that is a very reasonable position for the buyer to take.

Even if you buddy never had a lien on the plane, it wouldn't be the first time someone tried to sell a plane on which there was a lien the seller did not know existed. Search around this site for some sad tales of such happening, and someone then trying to get the title cleared of an old lien where the lien holder is now dead or out of business.
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It's called Escrow...
 
Jim Logajan said:
Not sure how they can do that without violating the Antideficiency Act.
Besides, the House has already voted 407 to 0 to pay government workers their back pay for the furloughed time, it isn't like they would be working for free anyway:
http://articles.washingtonpost.com/...-senate-democrats-federal-government-shutdown

Government contracted private firms and their employees aren't covered and may not be so fortunate.
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I've already lost one job this month because the buyer couldn't get a title search on a plane he was buying and I was going to help pick up, fly home, and do IR training. May lose one in two weeks because the guy was planning to do the written this month. Ain't gonna get paid for this month even if they come back later.
 
Henning said:
It's called Escrow...
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You can certainly go that route, but the escrow agent isn't going to release the bill of sale to the buyer unless the title is determined to be clear, and that's the problem here. Very embarrassing for escrow agents when the title they pass turns out to have been encumbered -- expensive, too. And nobody's going to write title insurance without a clear title search.
 
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