FAA required tests after unexplained Loss of Consciousness

I have had landings I don't remember.

I blame it on repetition. That is I used to do so many landings that landing became so very routine, therefore not being retained in memory.




Unless something not normal happened. some of those landings still give me nightmares...
 
I am Anonymous10. I figure since I will eventually be reporting this to the FAA there's no reason to remain anonymous.

The syncope possibility makes a lot of sense and takes a load off my shoulders. Of course I'll be getting thoroughly checked out.
Syncope means your brain shuts down because there's not enough O2 in your blood, with no lasting damage. I think it was fortunate that the only part of my brain that shut down was the memory controller.
There's a lot of easily found information about syncope on the internet.
 
With syncope causes varying greatly it’s very possible something like a hernia would be ignored by doctors in spite of one episode.
 
lbfjrmd said:
loc, fugue state or whatever. Tell your flt instructor (no solo). visit a medical doctor and begin the process 1st to diagnosis the condition and THEN deal with the FAA.
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I was reading the DSV and came across a "disassociative fugue." It sounded like fun, but probably wouldn't bode well for my medical.
 
I remember the beginning, and the end, but not the middle. It was the only real landing of the day. The rest were crosswind touch and goes at another airport; I couldn't tell you how many I did. I don't count because the plan is to keep doing it until I always get it right.

I had a lesson yesterday and had a chance to talk with Sergey, who was my CFI at the time. He said it was a good landing and he'd noticed nothing different about me.
Frank, the new CFI, was open about it and made sure to tell me not to get overly stressed. Well, I had a stressful, but good lesson, shooting crosswind landings at the home airport. I'd spent so much time worrying about what happened to me, and what the ramifications could be that I didn't spend much time thinking about the previous lesson, nor getting ready for this most recent one.

I have a Dr's appt. tomorrow AM to get the whole process started. I had my BP taken today 127/77, HR 59.
 
Are you really sure you blacked out? I am being serious, because every person I have witnessed that really blacked out, normally aren't physically able to land an airplane.
 
Crashnburn said:
I remember the beginning, and the end, but not the middle. It was the only real landing of the day. The rest were crosswind touch and goes at another airport; I couldn't tell you how many I did. I don't count because the plan is to keep doing it until I always get it right.

I had a lesson yesterday and had a chance to talk with Sergey, who was my CFI at the time. He said it was a good landing and he'd noticed nothing different about me.
Frank, the new CFI, was open about it and made sure to tell me not to get overly stressed. Well, I had a stressful, but good lesson, shooting crosswind landings at the home airport. I'd spent so much time worrying about what happened to me, and what the ramifications could be that I didn't spend much time thinking about the previous lesson, nor getting ready for this most recent one.

I have a Dr's appt. tomorrow AM to get the whole process started. I had my BP taken today 127/77, HR 59.
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Based on your other thread, you're eligible for Basic Med. You should seriously consider not going back for a third class if you plan to tell the AME you had a syncope episode while flying. Unless you're able to put a definitive cause on it and one that precludes any likelihood of recurrence, I'm afraid you're not going to ever get a medical certificate.
 
midcap said:
Are you really sure you blacked out? I am being serious, because every person I have witnessed that really blacked out, normally aren't physically able to land an airplane.
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the airman will have to have medical data to confirm ... or refute ... what actually happened
 
I agree with @Lindberg that Basic Med is likely your only real option. You should ground yourself until you know what’s going on, but when your physician is satisfied enough to sign the Basic Med form you’ll be good to go. If you go to an AME to try to get a new 3rd class, you’ll probably never satisfy the FAA and you’ll be grounded for life.

Another alternative would be Sport Pilot. You’ve not yet had a denial, so you’re eligible for Sport and wouldn’t even need Basic, but if you go to an AME and get denied then Sport will come off the table.
 
It sounds like he has never had any FAA Medical which is needed for Basic Med.
 
Half Fast said:
I agree with @Lindberg that Basic Med is likely your only real option.
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I didn't say that exactly. I don't get the impression from the OP's or his CFI's event that he had a syncopal episode. It strikes me more as some sort of cognitive lack of attention, possibly a hypnotic or stress-related phenomenon interfering with memory creation. But I'm not that kind of doctor. And maybe his will give him different feedback.

Regardless, if he reports a syncopal episode on a medical application, he will have to explain it very well. Unexplained LOC is disqualifying if it didn't happen in a plane. So if that is indeed what it was, the Basic Med may be the best option.
 
The FAA doesn’t like “ unexplained” anything. See a doc and get an explanation, then see an AME for a consult to see if that explanation will fly with the bureaucracy.
 
Hi guys. Great discussion. Thanks.
Here's more grist for the mill.

I saw a regular MD this morning and explained what happened, the best I could. He said I did not lose consciousness and it wasn't a synoptical event; but I was probably dehydrated. He said to make sure I stay hydrated in the cockpit. I'll start carrying a water bottle with Gatorade mix to drink. I usually have a 32 oz mug full of potable liquid with me during the day, and it had been close to two hours since my last drink (non-alcoholic, of course) on a hot day on that flight.

He ordered a blood count panel, and an electrolyte panel, just in case.

And the CFI said it was a good landing and noticed nothing different about me. I'm only sorry I don't remember it. I was landing on 31 left in the late afternoon so I don't think it had anything to do with the prop and the sun.
 
Good update!

Tips for hydration:
- Hydration starts the day before. If you don't drink properly the day before, you start the day dehydrated.
- My bladder is good for about an hour after I drink a significant amount. 2-1/2 hours before a flight, I have a tall glass of water 12-16 oz. Relieve myself right before flight. If the flight is in hot weather, high altitude and/or is close to 2 hours or more, I will continue to drink water in flight (in sips of a few ounces) when there is an hour or less remaining.
- Gatorade isn't necessary, just proper electrolyte intake before the flight. Bananas are great. A few salty chips or nuts work. Of course with Gatorade you do get the convenient wide mouth bottle for reuse...
 
jbarrass said:
then see an AME for a consult to see if that explanation will fly with the bureaucracy.
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Why? The rule is to report an unexplained LOC. He saw a physician, discussed the situation, and the doctor said it wasn't LOC, and it has a logical explanation as to cause for what he experienced. I see no moral or legal obligation to take this up with an AME.

As for reporting the doctor's visit, as required: If it was an appointment schedule for a routine physical, nothing else needs to be said. If was for this specific event, then: Visited Dr. X on MM/DD/YY to discuss effects of an apparent dehydration event.
 
Sigh.....FAA workup remains the same for a disturbance of consciousness thought to be cardiovascular in origin......
 
bbchien said:
Sigh.....FAA workup remains the same for a disturbance of consciousness thought to be cardiovascular in origin......
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Yeah, but...the PCP says dehydration was the issue. Is there anything here to report at this point other than the doc visit and the reason for it?
 
Loss of full consciousness in flight witnessed by CFI? or, “not noticed by CFI?”
Which is it ?
 
bbchien said:
Loss of full consciousness in flight witnessed by CFI? or, “not noticed by CFI?”
Which is it ?
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According to OP, the doc said he did not lose consciousness. CFI said the landing was good. How can there be a good landing with a pilot who lost consciousness?
 
Magman said:
Does the work up vary with the reason?
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There's no workup for something that didn't happen. The OP might have been confused about what "loss of consciousness" means, but the professional observing him and the medical professional who examined him say it didn't happen.
 
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Not referring to OP situation.

Does the work up vary with the reason for LOC?
 
Magman said:
I’m not a Med Guy but the condition appears to be Syncope.
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Isn't that a widescreen format for movies? :)

But seriously, if you're eligible for Basic Med, I'd go that route. Your personal doctor will know more about your condition, and will be a better judge on your ability to qualify for Basic Med. Which I think is the reason for Basic Med being created.

BTW - yes, legally you can solo on Basic Med. Some flight schools can get picky and require a 3rd class. Check with your CFI if he/she will sign you off with Basic Med.
 
There's a difference between losing consciousness and losing focus. The first things I'd ask the OP would be
Have you been sleeping well?
Any OTC or new scrip medications recently?
Are you prone or have you ever experience brief moments of anxiety?
Any new stress in your life?

I'm no doctor, but these are factors I've learned to consider in my own life and my capacity to function and/or concentrate in situations I put myself into.
 
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