FAA registration issues have to love the efficiency

DFH65

DFH65

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DFH65
So when my co-owner and I bought the plane a few months ago we sent all the paperwork to the FAA thought we had all the i's dotted and t's crossed. Guess not.

The person we bought the plane from had it registered under his business. Today I received a letter stating that the title "owner" which he used on the bill of sale was not a valid corporate title. So they gave us a 120 day extension to get it corrected.

So I called the FAA and asked if I could just correct it (I see on his previous application he wrote President which is a valid title) or did the seller need to correct it. They said yes I could change it and send it back.

So they send me a three page letter generate a bunch of paper work and phone calls so I can cross out Owner and write in President and send it back.
 
Great testament why a $300 fee for a title company is worth it.

They exchanged the money when the paper is right, and they properly filed with FAA with 24 hrs.
 
Yep, the Aircraft Registry guys are friendly but an overly picky bunch. Don't forget to write "Co-owner" on your form if you own it with someone else. THey won't assume that just because you have the two names that were on the registration that you intended the conveyance to match.
 
Jeff767 said:
300 dollars is a lot of money to cross out owner and write president!
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Except it sounds like money has changed hands, the seller still owns the plane! It will take forever to sort out liability if something happens to the plane in this limbo period. Just not worth it for a small amount of money.

I have a 40 year friend who sold a plane and decided to save the $300. Long sad story, but he was stiffed out of $40K which was half the value of the aircraft. Buyer turned out be a real sleaze.

Most transaction parties split the escrow/title search fee. Really take a chance for $150?
 
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I just called them first when I put my plane into my LLC.

If it’s just a individual just fill out the forum, but for anything outside of that, well worth a 10min phone call to get it right the first time.

My only beef with the registration thing is having to renew it now.
 
I had similar issue with just an individual owner. I printed my name at the top of the form, but forgot to also print it underneath my signature at the bottom of the form. They had to send it back to me to have me print my name a second time and send it back to them. Yeesh! Gotta love our tax dollars at work.
 
They sent mine back because the top pen-width of the first letter of my name was above the top of the box when I signed...
 
This is why most everything should be operated on per profit basis - you can’t afford ********.
 
Sorry, but I never quite understood why a seller and buyer not putting the correct information in legal documents used to transfer title to multi-million dollar properties is the FAA's fault.

Yeah, a $15,000 2-place 60 year old single is not a Citation jet, so I see why one would want to DIY. But, then again, DIYs don't always work out and you sometimes get what you didn't pay for.

Fortunately the "flip side" doesn't happen too often, but are threads about how it's also the FAA's fault when the DIY buyer didn't check title or understand the results and later finds that undischarged security interest or title defect the FAA didn't catch.

It's probably a big PITA for the clerk at the FAA Registry who has to deal with it and sometimes has to send a form they view as simple back multiple times because of errors (usually ownership and transfer authorization). I wonder what a thread on their forum would look like. :D
 
Because it's inane. I've bought and sold assets much larger than my airplane and go through much less rigamarole.
 
flyingron said:
Because it's inane. I've bought and sold assets much larger than my airplane and go through much less rigamarole.
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If you are talking real estate, it's probably because the people who did the paperwork knew what they were doing. If you are talking about large assets which do not have certificates of title, no one cares what it says except the buyer and seller, unless financing is involved.

I've seen some fairly complex aircraft transactions which included both financing and international registry filings as well as the FAA. No rigamarole at all.
 
I think when I have my company, I'll adopt the title "owner" just to be contrary. Then when the FAA says "that's not a legitimate business title", I'll send them a business card with the title on it.
 
bflynn said:
I think when I have my company, I'll adopt the title "owner" just to be contrary. Then when the FAA says "that's not a legitimate business title", I'll send them a business card with the title on it.
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They might send the business card back and ask for the company vote :D
 
midlifeflyer said:
If you are talking real estate, it's probably because the people who did the paperwork knew what they were doing. If you are talking about large assets which do not have certificates of title, no one cares what it says except the buyer and seller, unless financing is involved.

I've seen some fairly complex aircraft transactions which included both financing and international registry filings as well as the FAA. No rigamarole at all.
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I sold a $200 Million business with less headaches. Nobody gave a rats ass about invented "titles" on our signatuers.
 
flyingron said:
I sold a $200 Million business with less headaches. Nobody gave a rats ass about invented "titles" on our signatuers.
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Exactly. No one but buyer, seller, and financing cares.
 
I don't understand what you guys are complaining about. What would happen if errors like this went un-corrected? Given that the one true fundamental thing that makes an aircraft airworthy is properly filled out paperwork, you should be thankful that the FAA is making sure you do this correctly and that your airplane is, in fact, airworthy.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I never quite understood why a seller and buyer not putting the correct information ... is the FAA's fault.
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Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
you should be thankful that the FAA is making sure you do this correctly
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Agree entirely. What most people don't realize is the aircraft registration process is highly regulated with its own specific U.S.C. and FARs (Part 47 & 49) with the Form 8050 at their core. Hence the reason for no errors on the 8050. Registration is actually more important than your AWC and is required prior to the issuance of a AWC. Just be thankful the FAA doesn't follow the IRS and start penalizing people for Form 8050 errors like they can on Form 1040 errors.;)
 
The point here is that none of the nonsense is needed here - no more than say buying a car.
 
Warmi said:
The point here is that none of the nonsense is needed here - no more than say buying a car.
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So you buy a car and fill out the title wrong, would you be upset if the state sent it back to you for correction? Or should the state just accept whatever is on the title, until the owner goes to sell the car and the mistake may prevent the sale?
 
Warmi said:
The point here is that none of the nonsense is needed here
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The point being aircraft registration is not simply a US requirement but an international requirement dating back to the beginning of powered flight via several International Conventions. The ICAO manages the current agreement which requires all civil aircraft to be registered through a national (federal) registry. It's these conventions that gave us the "N" for US aircraft.

So it's hardly nonsense considering from an international agreement it works pretty well. Could you imagine having to change your aircraft reg in every country you visited? Ol' Katamarino would probably still be in Europe somewhere working through EASA paperwork on his worldly trip. Or the airlines?
 
James331 said:
I just called them first when I put my plane into my LLC.

If it’s just a individual just fill out the forum, but for anything outside of that, well worth a 10min phone call to get it right the first time.

My only beef with the registration thing is having to renew it now.
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From 1995 to 2000 I moved 4 times for work. On my last move I forgot to update my registration. I think in 2011 I received a letter from the FAA that my registration had expired. I renewed with the proper address. My old address was on the registration.

Glad they did not fine me for not being in compliance. They caught my error by means of a ramp check. Big brother is watching, it took 11 years before I was caught...:rolleyes:
 
Bell206 said:
The point being aircraft registration is not simply a US requirement but an international requirement dating back to the beginning of powered flight via several International Conventions. The ICAO manages the current agreement which requires all civil aircraft to be registered through a national (federal) registry. It's these conventions that gave us the "N" for US aircraft.

So it's hardly nonsense considering from an international agreement it works pretty well. Could you imagine having to change your aircraft reg in every country you visited? Ol' Katamarino would probably still be in Europe somewhere working through EASA paperwork on his worldly trip. Or the airlines?
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Yes, but he should have been able to write in his title as “ the dude” if he wished so ..none of their damn business.
 
Warmi said:
The point here is that none of the nonsense is needed here - no more than say buying a car.
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Then always buy and register an airplane like you do a car.

Buy from a dealer/broker or have it bank-financed. If you buy a car from a dealership or have it financed, no problem; they know how to do the required paperwork correctly (they do make mistakes, but they own them). All you have to do is sign on the doted line.

If you buy it from an non-dealer, buy from an individual who owns it in her own name, not through not an LLC or corporation or other entity. Register it in your own name, no entities. Then you don't have to understand such things as entities, authority, chain of title. Chances are excellent you'll never* get it kicked back. All the ones I've seen have been people choosing to use an entity but being clueless on how to use it properly.

*Well, not never. Some people can't even cannot copy someone's name correctly. It's the FAA's fault.
 
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Warmi said:
Yes, but he should have been able to write in his title as “ the dude” if he wished so ..none of their damn business.
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They wouldn't care if "the dude" were actually the title given him by the entity. If it's an LLC. the required LLC registration statement would include a statement like

This limited liability company is managed by its Manager who will use the title “The Dude” to sign all documents.​

No problem.
 
Car registration/transfer must vary state to state. Here it is seller signs buyer signs. Go to SecOfState. Done.
 
Warmi said:
write in his title as “ the dude” if he wished so ..none of their damn business.
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I guess you missed the part it's a legal requirement to use the correct title.o_O
 
I just renewed my registrations and subsequently did an address change. Easy peasy on the FAA website. When I originally registered my Exp I got bounced over a co-ownership/trust issue. The FAA needs the paper to fit their requirements. They were very helpful with my misunderstanding of how to do the registration. Whoever caught the minor error knew his stuff about trusts and trustees.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Exactly. No one but buyer, seller, and financing cares.
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No, actually, since it involved a publicly traded company, there was SEC and other organizations involved. Just not pinheads like the FAA registration people.
 
Yea, maybe the FAA should just accept a post card written in crayon.

“Dis aroplane be mine”. Signed Joe D. Pilot

:rolleyes:
 
Doc Holliday said:
Yea, maybe the FAA should just accept a post card written in crayon.

“Dis aroplane be mine”. Signed Joe D. Pilot

:rolleyes:
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Isn’t crayon only for internal memos at the FAA? Presuming the medical branch doesn’t eat all the crayons first?
 
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