FAA diagnosed substance abuse

Discussion in 'Medical Topics' started by 806Kelly, Jan 18, 2017.

  1. 806Kelly

    806Kelly Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2017
    Messages:
    16
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    806Kelly
    Please help me. My son received a DUI in February of 2015. His BAC was >.15. A few days ago he received his diagnosis and the list of hoops to jump through to possibly get his medical certificate.
    He had a first class medical. He's looking at other careers now. I'm wondering if the FAA has diagnosed anyone on here with a substance abuse problem? I've seen several comments on here about not giving up on the dream of flying for a living. If anyone has been through the mountainous process the FAA requires to get a medical again I would sure like to hear about their experience in doing that.
    Thank you
     
  2. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Messages:
    9,999
    Location:
    My own special place.
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Old dog w/o new tricks
    His looking at other careers is the right move.
     
  3. 806Kelly

    806Kelly Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2017
    Messages:
    16
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    806Kelly
    Yep. One strike. You're out.
     
  4. murphey

    murphey Final Approach

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    7,703
    Location:
    Colorado
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    murphey
    Contact Dr Bruce Chien (super AME) at aeromedicaldoc.com

    There's a reason for the mountain of paperwork and the onerous process. As a pilot - any level pilot from the lowly spam-can, punch holes in the sky to the United (soon to be no more 747) pilot, people's lives are your responsibility. You may think you're just a well-paid bus driver, but you're responsible for any where from 1 to 400+ people, not counting those on the ground.

    The #1 responsibility of any pilot is not being stupid. DUI is an example of stupid.

    What I tell my computer science students who are on their 3rd time thru CS 102 - Go major in Art History.
     
    RV10flyer likes this.
  5. 806Kelly

    806Kelly Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2017
    Messages:
    16
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    806Kelly
  6. Rushie

    Rushie Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2006
    Messages:
    1,170
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Rushie
    Absolutely contact Dr. Chien before making a decision. Bruce will lay it all out.

    If your son is in his twenties and not far progressed into alcoholism, and IS SERIOUS about recovery, the dream is not lost. What will make or break it is whether he is committed to recovery. If older and many years into the addiction, if it were me, I'd find another career; not that much time left before retirement to get your life together.

    Best of luck to your family.
     
  7. mulligan

    mulligan Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Messages:
    1,248
    Location:
    Birmingham, AL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mulligan
    I'm guessing you are going to hear that if he gets on HIMS he can never ever drink again. It will be a choice to think about long and hard. I would think that if he is not currently employed in aviation it would be very difficult to find gainful employment. If he is currently employed and the employer is willing to work with him than there is certainly a shot.

    Good luck
     
  8. 806Kelly

    806Kelly Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2017
    Messages:
    16
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    806Kelly
    He's 23. Made a mistake on his 21st birthday. Thank you for your reply. I was hoping to find out how much money it might take to help him over this hurdle. He's was instructing when his medical was revoked. He doesn't have the means to pay a bunch of money to get back in the game. Again, thank you for your reply.
     
  9. 806Kelly

    806Kelly Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2017
    Messages:
    16
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    806Kelly
    Thank you.
     
  10. Zeldman

    Zeldman Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2014
    Messages:
    8,720
    Location:
    NM or the emergency room...
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Billy
  11. 806Kelly

    806Kelly Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2017
    Messages:
    16
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    806Kelly
  12. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    11,549
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    weilke
    Actually, with DUIs it is not 'one strike' but usually two. Your sons problem is the level of intoxication at his first DUI. With a level of >.15 the FAA assumes habituation and he is now in a situation where he has to convince the FAA that this is not the case. As others have mentioned, Bruce is the one who can give him the roadmap of how to get back to a medical. The problem is that the revoked medical early in his career will come back to haunt him during every job application in aviation. While every other applicant still has one strike when it comes to booze, your son doesn't.
     
  13. bbchien

    bbchien Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2005
    Messages:
    10,122
    Location:
    Bolingbrook, IL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Bruce C
    For something like this, email me. Use the website link in my tagline (very teeny). I don't want to write public volumes, and information for which I will ask needs not be public......
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2017
  14. 806Kelly

    806Kelly Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2017
    Messages:
    16
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    806Kelly
    Thank you for your reply.
     
  15. 806Kelly

    806Kelly Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2017
    Messages:
    16
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    806Kelly
    Thank you. I'll gather his information.
     
  16. Jeremy Gardner

    Jeremy Gardner Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2017
    Messages:
    28
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    I wanna fly
    I have been through the entire process. It's been 1.5 years since I started. It's a painful and long. I am a recoverying alcoholic/drug addict. I had been sober for a year before I first applied for a class two. The good news is there is a lot of drunk pilots out there. BUT you must be in recovery to even be considered. Recovery meaning: Been to treatment, go to meetings, have a sponsor, worked or working the 12 steps...and you must be sober of course! The FAA hasn't granted me approval of a special issuance just yet. It's "in review" they keep telling me. There's a lot more to it than the list above. Dr. Rozanski in LA can answer any questions you may have in order to take the first steps towards getting approved. Hope this helps. And good luck!
     
    overdrive148 and Steven Untet like this.
  17. Jeremy Gardner

    Jeremy Gardner Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2017
    Messages:
    28
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    I wanna fly
    My visits with my 2 HIMS Dr.'s cost a combined $7k. It's been around a year and a half since I started the process. But I was already sober for a year.
     
  18. bbchien

    bbchien Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2005
    Messages:
    10,122
    Location:
    Bolingbrook, IL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Bruce C
    This man know about what he speaks.

    The FAA HIMS method: We overwhelm you with recovery activities. It gets very intense. 90AA meetings in 90 days after Intense detox/recovery for 28 days? 1/3 of a year goes by and suddenly there isn't anything in life except recovery and sleep. I has one fellow remark, "I can't remember anything before recovery. Think about drinking? Hah! WHEN?" This is called "earning it back".

    And I'll bet Jeremy now "gets" the difference between being dry and being in recovery.
    And if Gerald Rozanzky sez he's okay, he is.

    But I would caution- each person is a bit different. One person doesn't generalize well to another....
     
  19. Jeremy G.

    Jeremy G. Guest

    Hey Kelly. I had to completely be honest about my past i.e., use, frequency, amount, etc. I also had to write a detailed novel/biography that stated what happened, why etc. Mostly what happened that lead me to rehab, consequences I suffered, loved ones I lost, bridges I burned...I had no secrets because my rehab records (which they needed) were not a secret. I disclosed everything...I had a DUI in the military, and an "under age drinking" arrest in my record. I had to explain both of those nights. I lost a baseball scholarship because of drugs. I had to come clean about all the **** I had done. I had 60 days to do that. I got a 40 day extension because I had a problem getting my rehab records.
    Then I had to go see Dr. Rozanski and another psychiatrist ($7k). It was 3 days that tested all aspects of my mental, emotional and cognitive abilities. It sucked. But I got through it. I actually set a new record in one of the tests. Surprisingly, addicts are smart! Those docs wrote up their reports and then I was ready to set up my appointment with Dr. Brath--my HIMS doctor. I finally saw him and he did his thing. That included flights out to LA for all three visits. In total it took about 3-4 months to get all that out of the way.

    It then went to Oklahoma City. That took 4-5 months. They then needed more info from my pyhchiatrist. He did a addendum and sent it out asap. Oklahoma had it for another 2-3 months before they sent it to Washington DC. Washington needed more info so that slowed things down. The holidays probably slowed it down a lot. That took another 1-2 months.

    As of now, it's been seen by the Federal Air Surgeon and is waiting for HIS boss to sign off in it. And this is just to get a Special Issuiance.

    1.5 years later and I'm still waiting. Patiently. Some days are harder than others.

    But I refuse to give up! Nor should your son. Addicts are persistant and stubborn. I've done what I've needed to do. Moving forward is hard if all you want to do is fly. But I know that I'm right where I need to be and everything will happen as it's supposed to happen:) And the $7K is a very very small price to pay in order to do the thing that I'm most passionate about. I have the flying bug and it's not going away. I'm sure your son feels the same way. My advice...keep instructing the ground portion of flying, get into a rehabilitation center, do what they say, and pray pray pray they let him fly. It's not a long shot. I'm living proof that it's possible. If they were going to say no, they would have said no already. Good luck again and contact me if you have more specific questions.
     
  20. tankmaker

    tankmaker Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2016
    Messages:
    5
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    tankmaker
    I lost my 3rd class in January of 2016 due to a 3 day self admitted stay in an alcohol detox program.(in 2011) No dui or arrest of any kind in my life. After 363 days, a cogscreen test, two visits to
    HIMS ame and 3 random drug tests (3 hour drive one way) I finally got my SI. Now I have to pay $1400 for one year of HIMS and 14 more random tests in the next 12 months as well
    as a letter from my regular doctor and lab tests. I also have to provide a list of friends and family so the ame can call and verify my sobriety. At least 12 months and 84 hours of driving left
    and no guarantee that it will be over then. The FAA is the slowest government department I have ever dealt with and there is nothing you can do about it. If I wasn't this far in to it
    I would just quit, and might anyway. Good luck.
     
  21. lbfjrmd

    lbfjrmd Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2015
    Messages:
    243
    Location:
    pensacola
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    FAA HIMS/AME/ATC flight doc
    the good news ... you can FLY!
     
  22. 806Kelly

    806Kelly Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2017
    Messages:
    16
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    806Kelly
    Thank you for your reply. Good information.
     
  23. 806Kelly

    806Kelly Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2017
    Messages:
    16
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    806Kelly
    Thank you for your reply.
     
  24. 806Kelly

    806Kelly Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2017
    Messages:
    16
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    806Kelly
    Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately, the cost is prohibitive for my son. He will have to find something else. I'll pray that the FAA allows you to fly again.
     
  25. 806Kelly

    806Kelly Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2017
    Messages:
    16
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    806Kelly
    Thank you for your reply. Good luck to you too.
     
  26. Jeremy Gardner

    Jeremy Gardner Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2017
    Messages:
    28
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    I wanna fly
    I just received my special issued class 2 medical . 8k dollars and 1.5 years later!! But I can fly! That includes another 5 years of monitoring but it's all good!
     
    Everskyward, Whiskey Romeo and 3393RP like this.
  27. bbchien

    bbchien Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2005
    Messages:
    10,122
    Location:
    Bolingbrook, IL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Bruce C
    For the other readers: A BAC of 0.15 would put me on a ventilator or in the morgue. The original posters' son had a BAC of 0.15 and was trying to operate motor vehicle.

    So, even at a young age the >0.15 BAC demonstrates TOLERANCE.
    The only way to get that tolerant is to drink a lot and for a long time, so your son has been doing a good bit o'drinking.... :(
     
  28. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2010
    Messages:
    2,230
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tarheelpilot
    Bruce just curiosity here but if there is a blood test of .16 and field sobriety test of .19 with dismissal and the pilot failed to report arrest resulting in cert revocation.... what are prospects for reinsuance
     
  29. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2007
    Messages:
    14,936
    Location:
    Catawba, NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    FlyingRon
    By the way when the FAA (or one of the posters) here talk about sobriety, I should point out that they mean "complete abstinence" rather than just being below .08.
     
  30. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

    Joined:
    May 25, 2006
    Messages:
    8,109
    Location:
    Chapel Hill NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mark
    My 2 cents. Expect a more arduous task than if it were properly reported. The FAA takes falsification very seriously, particularly on medical issues. In theory the objective medical standards and requirements are the same. But in reality, there is a subjective element as well. The extra credibility and attitude hurdle due to the falsification can be especially difficult to overcome.

    Than can be true of even less inherently credibility-based assessments than "I am clean and sober."
     
  31. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2007
    Messages:
    14,936
    Location:
    Catawba, NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    FlyingRon
    Intentional falsification can result in serious criminal charges (rarely) and loss of ALL (not just medical) certificates held.
     
  32. bbchien

    bbchien Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2005
    Messages:
    10,122
    Location:
    Bolingbrook, IL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Bruce C
    Well, if you dont' put it on the form the AME issues you. Then the GS4 at OKC discovers the omission and you get an emergency revoke, PLUS, depending on how the OKC Medical officer is feeling about a LIAR, that day, a "show cause why we should not revoke your pilot certificate for lying to the FAA" letter.

    Plus it the IG is feeling his oats, just remember what they did to Martha Stewart. Martha, IIRC was never convicted of insider trading. Just of "Misleading a federal officer".
     
    jrollf and midlifeflyer like this.
  33. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2010
    Messages:
    2,230
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tarheelpilot
    Already revoked. Trying to get medical back so he can retest back to commercial pilot level.

    Was curious if he has a shot at ever flying again.
     
  34. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2010
    Messages:
    2,230
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tarheelpilot
    All certificates were revoked. Not just medical.
     
  35. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2007
    Messages:
    14,936
    Location:
    Catawba, NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    FlyingRon
    That' s what I said.
     
  36. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

    Joined:
    May 25, 2006
    Messages:
    8,109
    Location:
    Chapel Hill NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mark
    Yep. Just went through one of these.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2017
  37. mtuomi

    mtuomi En-Route

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2013
    Messages:
    2,855
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    dera
    There was a guy in Finland who got done recently for drinking'n'flying. He blew .29. And he made it down safely(in an ultralight...). THAT'S tolerance!

    .15 isn't necessarily tolerance, I'm happy and social until around .25(verified) and I don't drink much.
    .15 is 15 standard drinks (12 bottles of your usual Bud) in 5 hours for someone my size. That's a heavy evening, but nowhere near morgue numbers. 2.5 per hour for 5 hours.
     
  38. genna

    genna Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2015
    Messages:
    826
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ТУ-104
    Disclaimer: i'm not a doctor and have not verified following information in any way.

    According to the all-knowing wikipedia... Low possibility of death enters at 0.3 BAC and coma at 0.4 BAC... 0.1 to 0.199 is the fun range, where you are clearly very drunk, but not even passing out yet.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_alcohol_content

    EDIT: To Dr. Bruce point: While not in a coma range, without building up tolerance, I am not able to operate even my zipper at 0.15+ much less a vehicle. And I'm from Russia :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2017
  39. Zeldman

    Zeldman Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2014
    Messages:
    8,720
    Location:
    NM or the emergency room...
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Billy
    Man, some really practiced drinkers here. A couple glasses of wine and that's it for me.....
     
  40. ejensen

    ejensen Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    2,243
    Location:
    Fort Collins, CO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Eric Jensen
    Definitely need treatment. I have heard that AA isn't as successful as they'd like you to believe. Plus it's religious based if you're not.